3n1 oil and Lionel lubrication

I'm told that Lionel stated at one point that it might not be compatible with all plastics, but that might not affect your trains if all metal.  The thing I've noticed, using it for years, is that the engines seem to need to warm up for a few laps (like the old cars) before hitting their stride.  But it hasn't caused any damage.

I would say yes, on metal parts. I sometimes use it myself. But a lot of guys will have strong preferences for synthetic oils and other products which may perform somewhat better.

One of the first things I had to do, when I grew up and decided to start running my old Lionel 2026 again, was to clean out the old, caked, dried-out gummy 3-in-one residue from years ago.

On that basis alone, I use only modern synthetic oils on my trains.

thats what I use at train shows, 3 in 1 oil.

I run trains all day(changing the locos out every

40min or so)

Ive been using that for 20 yrs and have had no

problems. I also use a food flavor injector as a grease gun.

(walmart $3.00)

I cut the pointed tip off and filled it with white

lithium grease to grease all my locomotives.

In the '20s Lionel provided a sample of 3-in-1 oil with every outfit.

Ron M

I also use 3-in-1 oil for smoke fluid, works fine, but some forumites imply I'm stupid for not using MEGA-STEAM. Mineral oil and basic chemistry ... but we better not get into that !

3-in-1 oil used on Ives and Lionel tinplate in my family from 1924 to 2008.

The smell of 3-in-1 is part of the tinplate experience.

Now, I use this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid...;hash=item4cf222729f

mostly because of the very convenient tip puts the oil where you want it, and the slightly thicker viscosity keeps it there.

I don't use it.  I buy and use the lubricants specifically made for model trains.

Here's a link to the 3 in 1 website.  

http://www.3inone.com/faqs/

franktrain

Hoo-ray for 3-in-1 !  A time-tested traditional oil for traditional trains !

Back in the 50's I used 3-in-1 oil for smoke fluid in the pill type smoke units.

I don't recommend this use.

I stopped using 3-in-1 oil as a lubricant years ago. Typically I use a labelle product. 

I use my 3-in-1 oil for wet sanding metal.

just go to their website and read the MSDS which will give you all the information

needed to make a valued judgement.

Bernard

I would never use any traditional petroleum-based oil on trains. They dry out and can leave a gummy residue. I use a synthetic product called Break Free CLP (Clean, Lubricate, Protect). It was designed for use in automatic weapons, which reciprocate at high speed and high temperature and a gummed-up lubricant can get you killed. If it's good enough for a belt-fed FN Minimi at 700 rounds per minute, it's good enough for my Bild-a-Loco. 

I have Break Free CLP in my gun cabinet, I may have to consider that for the trains.  It works well on the guns...

I’ve used Labelle’s products for my trains or years. Their regular oil for the usual lube points and the white grease for gears.

WD-40 is NOT a lubricant. It is to replace moisture in/on the article.

Ron M

The motor manufacturers we use in the air conditioning equipment we manufacturer recommend SAE 30 non-detergent oil be used for sleeve type bearings. That is what I use on my trains.

According to the Manufacturer's claim, WD-40 is indeed a lubricant. From their site:

quote:

WD-40 Multi-Use Product is the ultimate multi-purpose problem solver. WD-40 removes gunk, penetrates to loosen stuck parts, prevents rust and corrosion, and is a light lubricant.

That written, I do not use WD-40 as anything other than a metal protectant.

While they claim "light lubricant", it's also a very temporary lubricant.  As I've stated previously, I've personally dealt with the effects of leaving WD-40 on an item for an extended period of time.  Specifically, I'm talking about guns, though the same effects would clearly be exhibited for any mechanical device.  After a year or two, it turns into some sort of sludge-like varnish that is almost impossible to remove!  I've had to soak guns for a week in solvent to loosen the WD-40 before I could even disassemble them!

IMO, it fails miserably as a lubricant.

I wonder if the WD-40 may have partially dissolved other old oils or cosmoline which redistributed and re-solidified in different places after the WD-40 dried out? I haven't experienced WD-40 itself turning into a "sludge-like varnish". Just interested.

I consider WD-40 to be a penetrant and "temporary" lubricant, as for removing rusty bolts.

Water Displacement formula 40!

I can't say as I bought these used and they were already "protected" using WD-40 according to the seller.  I did know what I was getting, and the end result was fine, but it was a PITA to get them apart the first time!

I use WD-40 to flush water off of mechanical things, but truthfully I have had a spray can of it for years, and it's still pretty heavy, not much use.

As you may have well noticed, opinions are like something else...everybody has one. I prefer to use, Lucas's Gun Oil when a light oil is needed. The mighty Red N' Tacky when something heavy duty is needed.

Same here.  It does work well (on trains and guns), and it has the added virtue of containing teflon in suspension.  But on the other hand, it's a bit thin, and doesn't seem to last as long as LaBelle oil or synthetic motor oil.

Can vasoline be used safely as a gear lubricant?

Thanks,

John

Vaseline will attack many plastics. and it is absolutely deadly to any kind of rubber or neoprene. I wouldn't put it anywhere near my trains. 

When I first got into the hobby, one of my kid's trains started slowing down considerably. Having no hobby lubricants in the house yet, I used some Vaseline on the gears, and the train went back to running as it should. I left the Vaz on the gears until I got some hobby grease, and have seen no damage to this day.

I use WD-40 more as a solvent than anything else. It's great for removing tree sap and road tar.

quote:

IMO, it fails miserably as a lubricant.

I am not a big fan of WD-40, I posted the manufacturer's claim because the manufacturer encourages the belief that it is a lubricant, and many people believe that.

I use WD-40 as a metal protectant on tools, and sometimes as a cleaning agent / rust remover.

It does work as a penetrant in some cases, but I find that PB Blaster works better.

Liquid wrench works well for me too.

I prefer to use CRC 2-26 as a metal protectant on the metal parts of trains that require something.

I've found that WD-40 is great for cleaning and restoring the lustre to postwar metal locomotive shells. Just spay it on, leave for a moment or two, and then polish off with a soft cloth to restore that as-delivered finish.

Nicole, that's a perfect application for it, you don't have to depend on it's long-term characteristics.

Gandy

I'm going to have to chime in here. WD-40 and other related petroleum based solvents like LPS,PB Blaster will pit and oxidize the paint surface over time.I have seen many postwar Lionel and AF trains ruined over the 40+ years in the hobby because while it looks good at first, WD40 attacks the plastic and the paint pigments.The surface becomes chalky,waxy and pitted.It's like a slow acting dull cote. To shine in polish tinplate and plastic trains,Armor-All is an excellent choice.It's a plastic protectant. I have used it for nearly 40 years on prewar,postwar and modern trains. I am extremely picky/fussy about the condition and appearance of my trains.Armor All works great and is safe.

As far a 3 in 1 oil is concerned.Its OK for prewar and postwar metal to metal areas requiring oil.I prefer Labelle lubricants and lithium based greases for modern era trains with lots of engineering plastics. Labelle has plastic compatible oils.

Vaseline is a no no for trains,it has a high moisture content and will actually rust metal over time.It's original use is a hair dressing-really.

Ricky

When we had the big Standard Gauge layout in the Berkshire Mall (Wyomissing PA) some 35 years ago, we used Castrol's Motorcycle Chain lube out of a pressured can. With the small tip we could apply a small amount to the gears and the consistency made sure that it stayed where we put it. This display was up for some four weeks and operated seven days a week and eleven hours a day M-S and six hours on Sunday.

Ron M

Petroleum jelly is a byproduct of oil production composed mainly of mineral oils and paraffin wax, a chemical preservative.It has a high moisture content,that's why it is used oftentimes as a cheap moisturizer.It also contains water.

In simple terms: water + metal + time = rust

Ricky

"there really is no need to use Vaseline though unless its all you got handy".

Agreed.

Seriously, these are toys. No need for any high tech lubricant. The tolerances are not so seriously critical nor do they run at speeds where they will seize instantly.

Any decent lubricant will work on them. Maybe some will harm plastic, but 3 in 1 won't. As stated above, Lionel gave a tube of it with trains in the past.

Technology has come a long way, though, and modern synthetics won't gum up or cake up over decades of sitting like non synthetics. But you don't have to pay the price for "train specific" oils (Labelle, for example, and which is kind of tacky in itself). Any synthetic motor oil works just fine and does an amazing job. Run your trains, and then put a drop of any light synthetic motor oil on the axles of your cars and engines, and lube the motor points, then run it again. It will run smoother, and use less power.

Buy what you want, but for $4.75, you can buy a quart of Mobil 1 full synthetic 5W type oil, and it will last for years. I use it on cheap trains, and I use it on expensive trains. It just works.

Vasaline was also recommended in Marx instructions.

Steve

Mobil 1 sounds like a good idea....

Try it. Like I said, do the car axles and all the standard lube points on a locomotive.

But make a mental note of how the train runs before and after. There will always be an improvement with lubrication, but I think you'll see a noticeable difference when using synthetics.

My point is that you can spend $5/quart for Mobil 1 or $5 for an ounce of some other type of synthetic train oil, and they are pretty much the same thing. No company is going to invest money and research into lubrication for a toy. The "specialty" synthetic train oils are not all that special, except in price. Do an oil change in the car and collect the drippings from the Mobil 1 bottles in a small container and you have enough to last a year or two.

I use Mobil 1 instead of hobby oil.

Bottom line: 3 in 1 is just fine as a oil in Lionel electric trains.

Synthetics like Mobil 1 oils and greases are also excellent choices as they will be plastic safe.

One point of clarification - Break Free CLP and similar lubricants are not "oil" as such. They consist of microfine particles of Teflon in a synthetic base. The carrier acts as a solvent and rust protectant and the actual lubrication is done by the Teflon. It is an excellent lubricant, superior to oil in certain high-stress applications. It absolutely will not dry out and get crusty. You don't really need its heat resistance or superior lubricating properties for a toy train - but on the other hand, it's really great stuff and five or ten dollars' worth lasts forever. I have it on my bench anyway for guns, so I just use it for most everything. Oh, and shake well before using. The Teflon sinks to the bottom. You can see this if you are using a clear dispenser bottle. 

A few days ago, a member of our 2-rail train club received a new release, second issue, Sunset E-7.  The instructions said to lubricate with 3 in 1.

Doesn't any of this discussion imply that whatever lubricant is used, it's not that critical, but just that some type of lubricant is used? These trains are, for the most part, simple and somewhat crudely built mechanical devices, compared to what these oils are meant to protect.

If a train is reasonably cared for and maintained, then the issues with dried and caked up lubricant, etc, that we see on originals won't happen for many years, probably exceeding our time on earth.

Some are better than others, but all will work. I can tell you that any train performs better when lubricated, and they perform even better when lubricated with a synthetic, and, an inexpensive, harmless lubricant is any automobile synthetic oil, either 5W or 10W. It's not going to matter, as these trains don't stress oil anywhere near what an automobile will do.

All that being said, I would not hesitate to use 3 in 1 if it's what I had. Not my preference, but it will work just fine.

Again, ask others what works for them, and decide what is best for yourself.

I use the Labelle plastic compatable oil.  It probably works as good as most, but I like the needle size applicator.  Normally, 3 in 1 cans have a sloppy stem, and gets oil all over the place.  I once applied too much oil to a new MTH engine's drive wheels, and it caused all the traction tires to slip off. 

Could a motor oil like pennzoil 5W-30 be used safetly to lubricate tin plate engines? It works with todays automobile motors that have very tight clearances and tolerances.

 Another possiblility, how about synthetic two stroke oil. This has excellant lubrication qualities and is designed to cover all pre mix ratios of different two stroke motors.

Just curious.

Thanks,

John

Motor oil works fine for me, and it doesn't harden into goo.

Would a dry graphite lubricant be acceptable?

John

seems to me like I read somewhere that dry graffite is not a good

lubricant for toy trains, but I could be wrong.

My father in law uses automatic transmission fluid of all things,

(the red kind). He seems to have good luck with it, although I dont

know what it would do to plastic parts. i still use the old stand by

3-1 oil for mating parts and white lithium grease for gears.

I mentioned this earlier, that I use a food injector for my grease gun.

cut the point off, fill with white lithium grease and instand grease gun.

works great and impresses the crowds at train shows when I get it

out to lube their trains they bring in. I ask them if they want

a shot in the arm??? HA!

Dry lubricant is good for couplers, but not for the rotating machinery.

noticed that someone made the point of the 3-1

oil cans have a sloppy point.  I reamidy that by

buying the Labell oil, when it ran out, I refill it

with the 3-1 oil so I can reuse the needle point.

that Mobile 1 synthetic oil sounds like a great idea.

you could buy a qt and would last forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ricky,

 Are you talking about WD-40 used on tinplate trains, plastic trains, or both?

Thanks,

John

What type of motor oil do you use,(viscosity/ weight)? Is it a detergent motor oil or non detergent?

Thanks,

John

Previously posted:  "To shine and polish tinplate and plastic trains, Armor-All is an excellent choice."

For what it's worth, several years ago when we bought a new car, the dealership told us to NOT use Armor-All on the dashboard, as it will crack it.

I put it on the dash of my wife's Ford Granada several years ago, and it and the sun, actually fried and baked the dashboard and left it black.

Needless to say, I haven't used it since.

John

Allen,

   I am like you and use the toy train lubs, however my fathers Tin Plate 263E, one of the 1st Lionel Trains ever made, came with a Tin Squeeze Can of 3 in 1 oil, right in the Lionel Train Set.  It was Lionels lubricant of choice at that time, packaged with the Tin Plate train sets. 

PCRR/Dave

The original 263E Work Train (Left) and the MTH P2 263E (Right) with original Lionel rolling stock.

On exposed gears, I use Lukas Red and Tacky II.  Safe on plastics.  But the stuff does not fly off the gears while in motion.  Has Teflon in it.  Comes in a grease gun tube for about $5.00.  Will last a fifetime!

I'm wary of the tacky lubes every since I tried it for chain saw chain lube. It attracted more debris to the chain and bar and held it there, very messy. Regular thinner lubes don't accumulate and hold debris like glue. My 2 cents worth.

hello guys and gals.............

I use Red & tacky #2 for mine Sunset 3rd S.F.#5011, it made the gearbox smoother when running for 6 hours. Its good stuff.  

the woman who loves the S.F.#5011

Tiffany

quote:

Would a dry graphite lubricant be acceptable?

quote:

Dry lubricant is good for couplers, but not for the rotating machinery.

I like to use a dry lubricant on surfaces that only occasionally slide against each other. An example would be the sliding parts of a milk car mechanism. It's not in constant use.

I generally keep away from graphite because I find that it stains, and is impossible to completely remove.