UPDATE ... March 2024: 3rd Rail SD40-2's

Hey TrainBub,

I gave Scott info on the Mopac SD40-2c units assuming they would prefer to make later versions with dynamic brakes as most roads had DB.  He passed the info on to Jonathan.  I'd be OK with non-DB as well, but prefer the late/modern version on either DB or non-DB.  If I've missed anything, please let me know.  Here's what I provided, much is courtesy of Kevin Eudaly's Missouri Pacific Diesel Power:

All Mo-Pac SD40-2s with dynamic brakes (#6000-6073) were delivered in the Jenks (dark cerulean) blue late scheme with the screaming eagle over sawblade logo on the cab, wider 5" Scotchlite striping & chevrons, large cab numbers on the long hood, and corrugated radiator grilles (no chicken wire grilles).  They all had bells mounted high on the long hood before the left-hand radiator grille.

20 DB units made in 1976 (#3216-3235, renumbered in May, 1978 to #6000-6019) had both standard cab lights between the number boards and lights on the short hood (like DRGW SD40T-2s).  They also had rotary beacons on the cab roof and early EMD-style squared numbers on the number boards.

BTW, sorry I can't reserve any Sunset GP7s or GP9s in Jenks Blue.  In my RR universe they were already traded in on GP15-1s.  I've already got four painted and ready for some local road-switching work on the future layout.  For now two baby tunnel motors are pulling a local around my office loop.  FYI, that's an original 3M Scotchlite Mopac cab logo in the pic. 

@Tim Mc posted:

Hey TrainBub,

I gave Scott info on the Mopac SD40-2c units assuming they would prefer to make later versions with dynamic brakes as most roads had DB.  He passed the info on to Jonathan.  I'd be OK with non-DB as well, but prefer the late/modern version on either DB or non-DB.  If I've missed anything, please let me know.  Here's what I provided, much is courtesy of Kevin Eudaly's Missouri Pacific Diesel Power:

All Mo-Pac SD40-2s with dynamic brakes (#6000-6073) were delivered in the Jenks (dark cerulean) blue late scheme with the screaming eagle over sawblade logo on the cab, wider 5" Scotchlite striping & chevrons, large cab numbers on the long hood, and corrugated radiator grilles (no chicken wire grilles).  They all had bells mounted high on the long hood before the left-hand radiator grille.

20 DB units made in 1976 (#3216-3235, renumbered in May, 1978 to #6000-6019) had both standard cab lights between the number boards and lights on the short hood (like DRGW SD40T-2s).  They also had rotary beacons on the cab roof and early EMD-style squared numbers on the number boards.

54 DB units made in 1979-80 (MP #6020-6073) only had standard cab lights between the number boards.  They did not have lights on the short hood or rotary beacons on the cab.  They used the later rounded EMD font on the

number boards.  This group matches the photo on Sunset's webpage.

#6071 was the last surviving blue SD40-2.  - That might be a cool one to make.

The latest non-DB Mopac SD40-2s were:

50 units, Aug-Sep 1978:  3216:2-3235:2 (the first 20 DB units had these numbers originally and were renumbered 6000-6019) and MP 3236-3265.

36 units, May-July 1979:  MP 3266-3301

10 units, Dec 1979, MP 3302-3311

10 units, April 1980, MP 3312-3321

BTW, sorry I can't reserve any Sunset GP7s or GP9s in Jenks Blue.  In my RR universe they were already traded in on GP15-1s.  I've already got four painted and ready for some local road-switching work on the future layout.  For now two baby tunnel motors are pulling a local around my office loop.  FYI, that's an original 3M Scotchlite Mopac cab logo in the pic. 

I’ll be happy with ANY MP SD40-2 Scott produces !!!!! I appreciate your diligence in passing in good info. The EuDaly reference is great info source for Jonathan.
Cheers !!!!

Originally posted by sdmann...

Richard, Bradley and I have been working on the SDP40F, FP45 and F45 project outline. We will announce these in the coming
 months and see where they take us. We will release these engines one at a time, so as to give our customers the chance
to order all of them in succession and it also helps us maximize sales so we or you don't have to drop one for the other.
they will not be cheap as they are short runs and all new tools.

YEAH BABY! SDP40F's!

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Originally posted by sdmann...

Richard, Bradley and I have been working on the SDP40F, FP45 and F45 project outline. We will announce these in the coming
 months and see where they take us. We will release these engines one at a time, so as to give our customers the chance
to order all of them in succession and it also helps us maximize sales so we or you don't have to drop one for the other.
they will not be cheap as they are short runs and all new tools.

YEAH BABY! SDP40F's!

You need to start a new thread SDP40F, FP45, F45. It will be difficult to build some excitement for this Buried in the SD40-2 thread.

Hi Folks,

Happy 4th of July.

Wanted to let you know Jonathan and I are now working on the design matrix which leads to design and tooling for our SD40-2 , SD40T-2 project.

I have removed several road names from the list due to lack of orders. We are already beyond our 20 road name production so we can't add any further roads at this time.  The roads that didn't make it are IC (Death Star), Frisco and SOO.

We changed the engine we are making for N&W to the short / high hood, black scheme. I hope all that reserved the Red N&W will approve of the change.

I think we will see these early to mid 2022.  Reservations will close in late 2021.

Keep well and happy Model Railroading.

Thanks for the update Scott! Happy 4th of July to you as well.

Dave

Suuuuhweet!

Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.

How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!

@vash44 posted:

Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.

How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!

Well it’s good that Scott didn’t keep people with Frisco, IC, and Soo reservations dangling till the absolute end before closing reservations. It actually allows us to see if we can reallocate our reservation “$” to something else.

@vash44 posted:

Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.

How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!

While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested.  Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names. 

IC is a tough one.  They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total.  I personally found that surprising during research of this unit.  The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version?  That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders. 

While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog.  I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road.  Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.

Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced.  Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.

I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex.  Go figure.

@GG1 4877 posted:

While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog.  I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road.  Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.

Don’t forget Conrail’s version with Flexcoil C trucks.  The whole reason for the lengthening of the SD40 frame was to accommodate the HT-C trucks, which made the CR variant look a little silly. Maybe not as silly as the 3000 gallon fuel tank models.

If anyone is interested in some of the many variations there is a great page that has details of the WLE SD40-2s, of which they’ve got a nice collection.  Some however, are reman’d SD40s like the three ex-PRR units they have.

http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster.html#SD40-2

@GG1 4877 posted:

While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested.  Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names.

IC is a tough one.  They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total.  I personally found that surprising during research of this unit.  The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version?  That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders.

While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog.  I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road.  Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.

Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced.  Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.

I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex.  Go figure.

You Always provide great info. Thanks !!!  Ferromex ?  A far piece away from CNJ !!!😳😳😳    
Do you also do the passenger car research /detail work ?    
Cheers 🙂

@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

Happy 4th of July.

Wanted to let you know Jonathan and I are now working on the design matrix which leads to design and tooling for our SD40-2 , SD40T-2 project.

I have removed several road names from the list due to lack of orders. We are already beyond our 20 road name production so we can't add any further roads at this time.  The roads that didn't make it are IC (Death Star), Frisco and SOO.

We changed the engine we are making for N&W to the short / high hood, black scheme. I hope all that reserved the Red N&W will approve of the change.

I think we will see these early to mid 2022.  Reservations will close in late 2021.

Keep well and happy Model Railroading.

It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ???  Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”.  It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.

@TrainBub posted:

It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ???  Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”.  It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.

You have no idea.  I reserve little from Scott because I know there will be people who don't actually pay for them when they arrive.  He understands  stuff happens between when you reserve and when they arrive.  He already knows I need some leftover F3s.  In the case of the Ferromex I did reserve I will keep one of each number and the rest will be used for chassis, for SD38-2s and other stuff.  Maybe even a swap for some other leftovers.  

And then there are the people who will return them, supposedly in perfect condition but it is obvious they did something.  The most obvious is when they swap out the electronics.  And yes, they do go on Scott's special bad boy list.

There were 4 different major SOO LINE schemes for the SD40-2. 

He only had the 1975 to 1982 scheme as a choice.

Andrew

@rdunniii posted:

You have no idea.  I reserve little from Scott because I know there will be people who don't actually pay for them when they arrive.  He understands  stuff happens between when you reserve and when they arrive.  He already knows I need some leftover F3s.  In the case of the Ferromex I did reserve I will keep one of each number and the rest will be used for chassis, for SD38-2s and other stuff.  Maybe even a swap for some other leftovers.  

And then there are the people who will return them, supposedly in perfect condition but it is obvious they did something.  The most obvious is when they swap out the electronics.  And yes, they do go on Scott's special bad boy list.

Wow you do some ambitious, serious vacuuming after “delivery”. I did 3 GPs and before all is said and done I’ll probably do 3 SD40-2s.
I'm stunned with people doing something - like swapping electronics !!!!! Holy cow - how sleazy - pathetic !!!!!

@rplst8 posted:

Don’t forget Conrail’s version with Flexcoil C trucks.  The whole reason for the lengthening of the SD40 frame was to accommodate the HT-C trucks, which made the CR variant look a little silly. Maybe not as silly as the 3000 gallon fuel tank models.

If anyone is interested in some of the many variations there is a great page that has details of the WLE SD40-2s, of which they’ve got a nice collection.  Some however, are reman’d SD40s like the three ex-PRR units they have.

http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster.html#SD40-2

Another reason for the frame length was to standardize the frame.  The SD38-2, SD40-2, and SD45-2 share the same frame.  Conrail elected to go with the older Flexcoil trucks due to their experience of Amtrak's SDP40Fs HT-C trucks on Conrail track which was substandard at the time.   

W&LE units are still being researched.  Most of the others have assigned phases and number ranges right now pending approval of the boss man Scott.

@TrainBub posted:

You Always provide great info. Thanks !!!  Ferromex ?  A far piece away from CNJ !!!😳😳😳    
Do you also do the passenger car research /detail work ?    
Cheers 🙂

I model western roads in 3 rail as my club is 3 rail and western based.  CNJ is for the serious modeler in me and is always in 2 rail.  Makes complete sense to me!!

@TrainBub posted:

It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ???  Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”.  It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.

Talk is cheap.  How many threads do we read that someone says, "I'll buy X number of units in Y road name if Z manufacturer makes it."  Uh-huh.  The answer to your question is less than 5 of each of these road names.

There are several on this forum who enjoy opining on everything but when it comes down to a placing a reservation find the smallest reasons not to reserve as in they never intended reserving one in the first place.

Then again there are others who are willing to place a personal guarantee on the run to get their road name made. 

Like life, we have all kinds on this forum.  Nothing wrong with any of it.

GG-1, In my world, train related internet sales completion actually have a higher closing ratio than in my professional world.  Maybe even double that of my day to day business.  Except at train shows, there sales may be 1 out of 6 conversations become sales.

There is a sort of love affair RR guys have for trains and sometimes it seems they just like to imagine ordering or talking about one.  Like dancing with debt.

For the life of me I can not imagine how Scott can make these high dollar multi unit overseas commitments based on the general RR public.