Yes, thanks. I Googled them and came up with nothing. A year after they fire the director they bring some outfit in that lasts a year. Then a guy took over and tried marketing the East Broad Top and the Altoona museum, I think, for 5 years. It flopped too. Obviously the museum doesn't have the people or resources to run the place. Keep the Curve and mothball the rest. But the "Management Group" has a bad smell about it. The minutes of board meetings would be interesting-maybe. Sounds like a closed door deal.
Incompetence and mismanagement can be found in private sector operations. What has happened with 1361 is one example.
Southwest and Delta ticketing system are another!
Guess Altoona would not alow an MU box?
No excuses for these incompetent clowns that are paid to do a job. Give them a job as an EOD "expert" !! That museum should never been allowed to have that engine.
They have trouble keeping their cams working at the curve and downtown. If they can't do this, how can they put the K4 back together?
All I know is a small group of guys are trying to restore whatever they can to try get it to run again. They are donating their time to preserve something that should be appreciated and passed down to future generations. Instead of showing them support all I hear is mismanagement and doom from a bunch of old fuddy dudies. I can tell you this, if people cannot associate with or have memories of these engines, future generations will care less about them and this hobby. My hope is that these guys don't get discouraged and keep moving forward. God Bless them!
RLHarner posted:...all I hear is mismanagement and doom from a bunch of old fuddy dudies...
Ah, I see. When people say things you don't agree with, you resort to name calling. That's a great debating technique.
The 1361 fiasco is well known in the steam fraternity. It has been a shining example of a steam locomotive restoration hopelessly mismanaged.
But what do I know...I'm just an old fuddy-duddy (which is the correct spelling.)
Hey Rich your right everyone knows the fiasco! You totally made my point! Instead of being supportive for people taking interest you and others are negative about it.
As for the spelling I didn't want you to remove the post for name calling! However if the shoe fits!
I'm not being negative. I'm being realistic. "People taking interest..." will not get this engine restored. MONEY is what will get it done.
All the good intentions in the world will not restore this engine. It will take a solid business plan along with at least $500,000 to get this job done. I don't see any plan in place to raise those funds. Without a commitment of money, it's all just useless jaw-flappin'.
Fuddy-duddy out.
A couple of other "dead in the water" projects at the moment. Western Maryland Scenic's attempt at a rebuild of C&O 1309 and The Boston and Maine, 3713, Steamtown. Never enough money.
Western Maryland Scenic's project, compounded by a right-of-way subsidence problem near Frostburg, MD.
I don't know the full history of the situation as I moved to the area after the project started. However; I did hear that they got a grant to cover the funds for their first attempt. Is this correct? If that is the case, people have every right to question the mismanagement of the project.
I would love to see this locomotive restored. Who cares if it's not 100% historically accurate!
In regards to the museum, I recently purchased a year pass to Horseshoe Curve and the museum. I love HC. It's a great place to watch trains. It was worth every penny. Unfortunately, the attractions outside of the museum seem to be in disarray. I visited two weeks ago with my son. The grass looked like it hadn't been cut in 2 months. There were weeds everywhere. A lot of the freight and locomotives were in bad shape. It seems like they purchased a bunch of old locos and cars and just sat them there. Maybe they should have focused on just a few cars and restored them before bringing in new cars? I went into the roundhouse and there was stuff (parts, tools, junk, etc.) laying around everywhere. The inside of the actual museum was really nice and in great shape.
"A lot of the freight and locomotives were in bad shape. It seems like they purchased a bunch of old locos and cars and just sat them there. Maybe they should have focused on just a few cars and restored them before bringing in new cars? I went into the roundhouse and there was stuff (parts, tools, junk, etc.) laying around everywhere. The inside of the actual museum was really nice and in great shape."
I agree. Even the caboose that sat at the entrance was not even cleaned or vacuumed. One of the Mom's wanted to get a picture of her and her son in the cupola, until she saw how dirty it was.
I believe the K4 money was used to restore the Museum itself...
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"There is nothing "political or partisan" about this. The state of PA is not involved in this at all."
Huh? Then how does the city host concerts there? Maybe not the state, however I believe the Municipality has direction on how the funds are spent...
Sure the donations were given to restore the K4, but who said the money was not diverted to the facilities at Horseshoe Curve or the Museum itself?
J Daddy posted:BTW, you can purchase one O gauge GGD passenger observation car in the gift shop at the Museum and at the curve for 350.00.
I asked and was the told the proceeds go to a general fund to keep the Museum open.
Wonder how many have been sold?
Hot Water posted:J Daddy posted:BTW, you can purchase one O gauge GGD passenger observation car in the gift shop at the Museum and at the curve for 350.00.
I asked and was the told the proceeds go to a general fund to keep the Museum open.
Wonder how many have been sold?
LOL- none when I was there! Had to blow the dust off it when I picked it up.
Disclaimer: we're life members at ARMM and we live too far away to volunteer.
When the new museum opened, we wondered how they were going to maintain it. Grants to open a museum aren't easy, but they're easier than getting maintenance money. The building is beautiful and about four times as big as the museum actually needed. The gift shop alone is as big as a lot of storefrontsIt was obvious even to us that using the building was going to cost a bundle.
As for the collection, Rich is right about the "historical fabric" people and the lack of understanding about boiler rules and regulations. They're not bad people. They truly don't understand machinery that was meant to be renewed as needed, rather than a fancy chair whose original upholstery is the item's value. They also think that all she needs is put back together so they can steam her up and run around the yard. The idea of undoing some of the ill-advised repairs from the long debacle horrifies them, and they don't see why she should have to have all those Form 4 calculations and so on.
They have a bunch of nice well-meaning volunteers who have "old fuddy-duddies" in the way-- you know, people who want to make sure the locomotive is safe to be fired up at all. They don't know the safety regulations or they assume they'll get an automatic pass on them. They don't have any good cost estimates; they tend to look blankly and say "But we already have all those parts." Yes, and some are worn out, and the huge boiler patch was mutilated before it could be inspected, so odds are the whole boiler course would need replaced, if not the whole thing. I have always thought a new boiler with the old one used as a display would be the best idea from an insurance standpoint.
As far as where to run 1361 besides the yards, they don't know. The Everett Railroad would be the reasonable choice, but it's not the Curve and nothing else will do. Meanwhile, there are all sorts of political reasons for this, that and the other (as there are in any town,) and knowing how to navigate those will be crucial to the museum's survival as well as any restoration of 1361.
jim pastorius posted:A big part of the problem is that for unknown reasons(I can only guess) people in positions of power and influence don't want the facts, the truth, full transparency and let the true story get out. Nine years to finish that so-called roundhouse stall !! I have a very old, hand made tin cup that a tin ware collector was drooling over, there is an embossed PRR logo on the side, I would like it to go somewhere to be appreciated. Not Altoona.
After seeing what some museum curators have done with donated items your concern is well founded. I've even read horror stories where lent items have disappeared.
A well run museum of any kind is a rarity. Usually money is a problem be it government owned or private. Most museum directors see it as a paycheck and a business. The paying public is a necessary nuisance. The sad part of all this controversy is that everyone(on the forum) wants the 1361 restored and running. This has dragged on for way too many years and the rail fans are tired of excuses and a lack of accountability on work done and money spent. Be realistic-the museum is a joke. The vignettes set up using mannequins etc are cute once and the artifacts on display are nice but how many times can you look at them ?? I took friends there, we paid full price and couldn't even get in to the yard to look at the junk cars and engines. They were building the "roundhouse". They were so proud of the first stall framework being erected !! Pathetic. My humble opinion is that this place will blunder on, the 1361 will gradually fade away UNLESS the Thoroughbred RR comes roaring to the rescue with at least some leadership and moral support. WE can only hope and pray. There must be something in the water out there because we have the East Broad Top up the road rotting away, too. Some heritage.
"My humble opinion is that this place will blunder on, the 1361 will gradually fade away UNLESS the Thoroughbred RR comes roaring to the rescue with at least some leadership and moral support. WE can only hope and pray. There must be something in the water out there because we have the East Broad Top up the road rotting away, too. Some heritage."
Well put. Note that this was not a family stop and there was no attraction for my kids or wife, to want to go there. The only reason I was able to see it was a "Man-cation to York"
My hope is that maybe someday the saved equipment may fall in the hands of the Strasburg Railroad or somewhere similar, and then they will resurrect it
Good afternoon, I think we all have our own opinions good or bad about the decisions that were made in Altoona and the people involved surrounding the K4.
There is no doubt money is going to be a major issue along experience,leadership and accountability.
I am looking at this latest step as possibly a new beginning for rebuilding this engine.
As I said in my earlier post maybe the third time is the charm.
Only time will tell how this project will pan out.
Thanks !!!!!!!!!!
