A new practice for package deliveries?

Of what value is the photograph?

C W Burfle posted:

Of what value is the photograph?

Maybe if someone steals the package, Amazon is not liable?

they are probably tired of all of the claims for no delivery. A photo of the package on your porch is further proof of delivery. The increase in package theft from homes is probably driving this too.

It protects the delivery service. It would be a little hard to argue that you did not receive a package if they show a picture of it on your front porch. It would also show the condition of the package as delivered.

My son just about had to go to war with USPS in New Orleans over package delivery this Christmas. There were numerous undelivered packages that the carrier said there was no place to deliver them although they have an open porch fifteen street from the street. 

A photograph would have settled the issue definitively.

the picture is probably for verification that the goods were delivered in a safe and undamaged manner. Many lumber yards have established this practice of having the delivery driver take pictures of the delivered goods "in situ", as a means to protect themselves against customer "theft"  or pilferage by, perhaps someone living nearby who just needs "a few sticks".

Amazon is delivering inside your house with special door locks the driver can access and you need a camera system ($199.00 equipment fee) they are doing this in select cities before they go cross country

Obviously it is intended to protect the delivery company, but it can also be used be the receiving customer. If the delivery picture shows a picture of someone else's porch, the customer may be able to contact the delivery company and get it fixed before it's too late. 

hclark6345 posted:

It protects the delivery service. It would be a little hard to argue that you did not receive a package if they show a picture of it on your front porch. It would also show the condition of the package as delivered.

Agreed. This is of no value to the customer, unless the picture is showing the crushed / damaged areas of boxes people sometimes receive. 

Jushavnfun posted:

Amazon is delivering inside your house with special door locks the driver can access and you need a camera system ($199.00 equipment fee) they are doing this in select cities before they go cross country

That ain't ever going to happen for me!  Amazon delivery hires local people that drive around with their own cars for delivery, and I'm quite sure they make peanuts for doing the deliveries!  Too much potential for abuse letting strangers in my place.

So far, no poster replies have mentioned their Amazon delivery notifications having this same photo documentation so I'm wondering how widespread this practice is for AMZL-US? Is it mandatory for all AMZL-US deliveries or rather simply a step an AMZl-US driver can opt for in an attempt to protect their self against customer non-delivery claims?

Does anyone know for certain what penalty, if anay,   Amazon levies against AMZL-US drivers for customers non-delivery or damaged delivery claims?

It may also show where the package was actually delivered when they say that it was delivered to your house. We had a package that was delivered to "God knows where" when we were notified that it had been delivered to our house last year.

C W Burfle posted:

hclark6345 posted:

It protects the delivery service. It would be a little hard to argue that you did not receive a package if they show a picture of it on your front porch. It would also show the condition of the package as delivered.

Agreed. This is of no value to the customer, unless the picture is showing the crushed / damaged areas of boxes people sometimes receive. 

 

I wouldn't say it's of "no value". If the package is in bad shape, it's obviously a record that someone between the Amazon warehouse and my house did a poor job. In that case, the proof is right there for all of us to see.  I'm fine with this "service", though I have not had any instances of it yet.

No one will ever be delivering directly INTO my house though.

I've found the packages on the front porch, at the back door, leaning on the garage door (clever placement), and also sitting against the mailbox pole that's 300 feet from the house out on the road!  There is no consistency to their deliveries, which is probably why they're thinking about the photos.  At least then you'd have a clue where to look for the package!

This is really not a surprising development. With Amazon taking more and more of the business dollar and therefore more drop offs where no one is home, it follows to reason that there are more and more complaints of packages not delivered. Some may be in error, but many are the result of some unscrupulous folks seeing these packages as easy targets and swipe them. More people are installing security cameras, but with the ease and minimal cost of a digital photo, Amazon at least allows people to be angry at someone else rather than them. 

Ken, yours may be a test area that will spread to areas that have more incidences of this type of crime.

Rick

What could it hurt?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've found the packages on the front porch, at the back door, leaning on the garage door (clever placement), and also sitting against the mailbox pole that's 300 feet from the house out on the road!  There is no consistency to their deliveries, which is probably why they're thinking about the photos.  At least then you'd have a clue where to look for the package!

Exactly!

Different set up on this of the pond. Until very recently none of the delivery companies would just leave packages at your door. Amazon and Hermes do now.

I’ll see if Amazon are taking photos on my next order.

The big boys Fed Ex, DHL, UPS and Parcel Farce (sorry Parcel Force😏). Put a card through your door. So you can rearrange delivery or go to the depot to pick it up. In other words someone has to sign for it.

Nick

RSJB18 posted:

they are probably tired of all of the claims for no delivery. A photo of the package on your porch is further proof of delivery. The increase in package theft from homes is probably driving this too.

That would be my guess, too. Really a very sound practice on the part of Amazon. Very clever and good proof, should it be needed, that the package was delivered.

I don't think it proves anything as a photo of the package could be taken by the delivery person and then that same person can remove it. 

I recently received two packages from Amazon.  One via USPS, the other via DHL.

No photo's were taken.

Rusty

Amazon with my deliveries has generally been a no signature required kind of deal, with the other carriers they generally require a signature and will leave a notice that you can click a box saying "no signature required" and they will deliver it, or you can pick it up at the local center. 

I just had something like this with Amazon that makes me suspect why they are doing this. I had an item that for some reason was sent requiring a signature and was delivered by USPS at the end, it was set for Sunday delivery. I got an e-mail claiming that no one was home to sign it, even though my wife and I were home (and thanks to our two canine barking machines, guarantee we would know it!). I online was able to say "doesn't need a signature" and got  it delivered the next day by my local post office. Basically the postal worker decided they didn't want to work or something (if they really had been there, there would have been a notice, e-mail notices are bs), and claimed couldn't get a signature. I suspect with Amazon using all kinds of third party delivery outside Fedex or UPS, post offices, local 'Amazon delivery" people, they are running into this situation more and more, both from delivery people not bothering to delivering it, to thefts and people blaming the delivery person for not trying to make it less visible or something. 

I suspect Amazon may go to some kind of thing like for people with home delivery, you have a drop box where packages up to a certain size can be delivered, and only you and the delivery person has the key/combination/electric pass, and if above that size then they have to be signed for.

The number of thefts has soared (or claimed thefts has soared, as this gets publicized, gonna be a lot of people thinking they can get away with a 2 for 1 deal), and if Amazon starts saying "not my problem" it could end up hurting their business, especially as they now more and more are claiming delivery within hours, etc, using drones to deliver packages. If Amazon thinks that they can deliver stuff, take a picture, and then say "sorry it got stolen, not our fault", they will be toast, pure and simple. Either they will need to devise a secure delivery mechanism, or have a requirement the package gets signed for, letting people know when it will be delivered within an X window, and they have to make arrangements or pick it up.  Given that Amazon deliveries relatively easy to rip off, and that few people in the working years have people at home during the day, this is a big problem that could be their achilles heel. 

Since we're on this topic...

I'm still getting over the delivery of my Lionel brass hybrid ATSF 2-8-2!!

Forget the issues surrounding errata in the recording of my pre-charge information causing delays, phone calls, etc..  Yeah, some of it due to my not paying attention to the order confirmation earlier in 2017.

Anyhow, it was finally delivered.....and carefully laid in the middle of the driveway to our garage wherein I was about to back our SUV!!!

Now, there was no indication whatsoever on the labeling as to what delivery service was used.  Nonetheless, our front door/porch was no more than 20 feet from the garage door.

In putting the SUV in the garage, I 'wye' in, using a turn-around leg.  It was as I was swinging into the turn-around that I glimpsed the box sitting in the driveway in front of the garage door.  If it had been after sunset that I arrived, and even though we have motion-activated carriage lights at the garage entrance, I might not have seen the box.

It took nearly a whole bottle of merlot (and a few hugs from the wife!) to get over that delivery!!!...part celebration (perfect engine!) and part resuscitation (nightmare arrival images!).

Other than that.....if we know we are not going to be immediately home for a pricey delivery, we'll ask our caring neighbors to keep an eye out.....which we reciprocate at their request.  

I'm becoming more intrigued with these home monitors that immediately alert you on your cellphone if there is a delivery, motion activation from an periphery monitor.  Seems like a prudent...albeit expensive?...choice for this wack-o day we live in.  Anyone had experience with such a system?....Positive?....Negative?

FWIW, always...

KD

AMZL taking delivery photos

redjimmy1955 posted:

the picture is probably for verification that the goods were delivered in a safe and undamaged manner. Many lumber yards have established this practice of having the delivery driver take pictures of the delivered goods "in situ", as a means to protect themselves against customer "theft"  or pilferage by, perhaps someone living nearby who just needs "a few sticks".

OT but you hit a sore point with me.  My house was among the first built in a new subdivision section, and I was appalled as more houses were under construction when seemingly respectable neighbors thought taking whatever they wanted from new homesites was acceptable.  Did explain they were stealing and asked them to put back whatever they were taking when caught red-handed.  Same for contractors engaged by other builders helping themselves to whatever materials they were short on other homesites.

"The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching." - John Wooden 

What, me worry?  

How about the time they (UPS? Fed Ex?) left my package on the next block! They got the address very close. I spotted the delivery as I was looking out my window. Of course my email came as package delivered. Just not to the right house.

 They blamed it on temps hired just at Christmas. So it wasn't really their fault or their problem when I called them.

Re: the comments on the condition of the box being shown in the photo:

Lots of times when I have receive  a damaged box in the past, the delivery person makes sure to put the damaged side down so you don't see it right away.  This may have been more common when they knocked for a delivery in case you were home or it needed a signature, it's less of an issue in today's "drop it and forget it" delivery approach.  In these cases, they had been hoping you didn't notice the damage before they could make their getaway and consider the item transferred to you.

I am not sure I want the photos, still thinking.  As for any sort of delivery regularly following any sort of instructions, I wouldn't count on it.

I have a large deck box immediately to the left of my front porch on the driveway (less than 6 steps away from the door).  I have a note posted in the window next to the door asking deliveries to please leave packages in the box rather than on the stoop.  It's hit or miss whether this happens.  Most times not.  Sometimes the delivery person is good and will do it.  I'm not talking a (in my mind ) large piece of land with a 300 foot driveway either here, It's probably less than 30-40 feet to my front door and this box from the street.

All the years of excuses from delivery people of not having time to either ring the bell, place the package somewhere other than the step, makes me wonder how they all of a sudden have time to stop and snap a photo at each house.

For things that will fit, I think the Amazon Lockers are a good attempt at a solution.  I am not sure how large they come though (and they are not in all areas, probably not at all in more rural locations).  I know they are starting to show up in my general neighborhood, but I haven't looked closely enough to figure if larger ones exist.

-Dave

I am registered on the US Mail website. Each morning I can look at scans of the face of the mail I am going to receive that day. I can also see what packages are coming. 

I have never used the feature, but you can define special delivery instructions for individual packages.

dkdkrd posted:

 

I'm becoming more intrigued with these home monitors that immediately alert you on your cellphone if there is a delivery, motion activation from an periphery monitor.  Seems like a prudent...albeit expensive?...choice for this wack-o day we live in.  Anyone had experience with such a system?....Positive?....Negative?

Not really all that expensive. In the past I've used Motorola's Hubble Connected App with their WiFi cameras. They'll send you an alert, and save the video of the "triggers" for a day, free of charge. You can have up to five camera's on an account. If you want to bump it up so that they save the data for a week, it'll cost you $75 a year. To save the data for 30 days is $225 a year. Overall, well worth it IMO.

My letter carrier leaves parcels behind the trash bin in the carport if we're out. The young lady next door will come over and get them and texts me to let me know. About 4 years ago before I knew about having Fed Ex and UPS held at there stores MTH shipped me my Premiere Reading Northern which had a cold solder joint without letting me know. I was away and when I got home it was leaning up against my front door in plain view of the street and when I checked the tracking it was left the day before lol. It sat there all night. Not I get automatic e mail notifications from all the shippers.

I laughed out loud at DKDKRD’s post above.  FedEx sticks every delivery in front of our garage door in full view of anyone passing by on the street.  Can’t count the number of times I “accidentally found” a FedEx delivered package.  The thing that really frosts me is they do this regardless of the weather conditions and could easily walk the extra 15 or 20 feet to put it on the front porch.  If the seller offers the option now; I will not choose FedEx.

UPS and USPS are pretty good about placing packages on our porch in a place they aren’t visible from the street.

For higher value items like trains though; I always have them delivered to me at work.  If I’m out of town; the receptionist will place them in my office and lock the door.

Curt

A UPS oddity:

Most of my deliveries come  to my house through the USPS, regardless of which company started the shipment. I seldom see a UPS guy at all - at least in the last 3 - 4 years, which is fine, but, when they do show up, they have begun leaving my packages at the edge of the porch, in plain sight of the street and open to rain damage. Four feet away(!) is my front door, well-protected from the weather and not readily visible from the street, where they left packages for years. And - it's the same delivery guy that has worked this neighborhood for a decade. So - I'm thinking it's policy. I really don't mind a UPS employee on my open (not screened, etc.) porch in order to properly deliver something.

Thankfully, the USPS does it right - they walk it to the door and ring the doorbell, if it's too big for the mailbox.

I don't use Amazon, so I have no experience with them.

Engineer-Joe posted:

How about the time they (UPS? Fed Ex?) left my package on the next block! They got the address very close. I spotted the delivery as I was looking out my window. Of course my email came as package delivered. Just not to the right house.

 They blamed it on temps hired just at Christmas. So it wasn't really their fault or their problem when I called them.

I must ask. How is  reading a STREET name and a house NUMBER complicated? I just do not get that.

You read a street name : Check! You read a house number: Check! You make a decision: I'm going to put this right here. Check!.

“I must ask. How is reading a STREET name and a house NUMBER complicated? I just do not get that.confused

You read a street name : Check! You read a house number: Check! You make a decision: I'm going to put this right here. Check!.”

We received a free pest control service at our house recently when an exterminator from a different company (not the one we have our contract with) showed up at our house and began to treat.  Our regular exterminator was scheduled for the following day and when this other guy showed up, my wife concluded she had entered the date wrong on her calendar.  It wasn’t till the guy finished and handed my wife his report that she realized he wasn’t from our regular exterminator.  Apparently he had mixed up our street name with a nearby subdivision name and showed up at our house by accident.  

So; reading the right address is easy but; I’m guessing this guy started to type an address in his GPS and it simply gave him the wrong subdivision and street.  He didn’t check it against his paperwork and just followed the driving directions on his GPS.

Curt

Onondaga street = close enough

Oneida street what's the difference?

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree. It's also a fact that we were getting mail for other streets. So we can't help but wonder who got our mail and our packages. When our mailman goes on vacation it's a crap shoot.

They couldn't even get the house numbers right that year. 

Many years earlier I sent a package to my parents house for Christmas. One side of Phoenix AZ address are labeled West and the whole other is East. Apparently the package went to the east side, labeled for West 31st Ave (or maybe even 31 street?)

I was blamed for that so I learned not to trust them with anything afterwards. They are in a rush so don't use full info that confuses the dyslexic personnel.

Like I get mail with my house number reversed or jumbled. Now it just makes for good jokes.

645 posted:

bigkid posted:

I just had something like this with Amazon that makes me suspect why they are doing this. I had an item that for some reason was sent requiring a signature and was delivered by USPS at the end, it was set for Sunday delivery. I got an e-mail claiming that no one was home to sign it, even though my wife and I were home (and thanks to our two canine barking machines, guarantee we would know it!). I online was able to say "doesn't need a signature" and got  it delivered the next day by my local post office. Basically the postal worker decided they didn't want to work or something (if they really had been there, there would have been a notice, e-mail notices are bs), and claimed couldn't get a signature. I suspect with Amazon using all kinds of third party delivery outside Fedex or UPS, post offices, local 'Amazon delivery" people, they are running into this situation more and more, both from delivery people not bothering to delivering it, to thefts and people blaming the delivery person for not trying to make it less visible or something. 

All I know is when Amazon delivers to my place (or in my neighborhood) on a Sunday it is done via a USPS vehicle / employee (or USPS contracted employee). No third party delivery services or people are used in my neighborhood far as I'm aware.

The package I was referring to was delivered by USPS, not their own service, and basically my suspicion is given the post office that handles Sunday delivery, they simply decided not to deliver and claim no one was home. I got it the next day via my regular mail delivery from my local post office. 

Doesn't really matter who delivers it, the real question is pictures or no pictures, what happens if the package gets stolen? If Amazon has a picture and says "not my problem" if the thing is sent without requiring a signature, then basically you are up the creek from what i can tell, the delivery agent isn't responsible.  Given how much amazon delivers these days, and how much is being stolen, it could in the end hurt them. It is why I suspect they are going to work out some kind of lock box for people's houses, kind of like milk boxes in the old days, but with security

Okay. This is an amazingly one-sided conversation. How many of you that have posted above have delivered freight for a business? The answer is pretty obvious... I'm fortunate to have had the pleasure of delivering freight for 3 years in my distant past, and believe me, there's another side to the story!

150 boxes in the back of the truck. 10 hour shift.

1st stop: gift store on main street. Owner thinks beside delivering the packages, it's your job to open the packages and stock their shelves. After some debate you settle to put the packages near where the owner wants them, even though your job is to bring them to the door. It isn't worth the time to argue. Bear in mind there's a timer in the truck telling you and your superiors how much time your taking/wasting at a stop.

2nd stop: Local grocery store with a box of flowers. All freight gets delivered to the back of the store. Ring buzzer. Wait. Wait. Wait. Ring buzzer. Wait. Wait. Timer is still working. Door is answered. Employee won't take flowers, needs to get someone in the floral dept. Wait. Wait. Timer. Floral shows up and informs you that those flowers are important and it took too long to get them...

Next 10 stops go smooth. Customers know the drill. By the way, in a small town, businesses get their stuff first.

11th stop: factory. Shipping and Receiving can't sign for packages. Need to figure out which dept. ordered it and where it goes. Wait for them to figure out who ordered it, and who can sign for it. They're in a meeting...

Lunch: Nope, it took too long to get packages delivered in the morning, now it's time for the dreaded residential deliveries.

1st. residential: 123 Jones St. There's no Jones St. There's a Jones Ave., and A Jones Cir., but no Jones St. Good ole' GPS isn't much help either, just like when you use it sometimes. Luckily you get to drive by the two worst places in town for a delivery driver, grocery stores and schools. If you ever delivered freight, you know what I mean.

The rest of the afternoon is spent ringing doorbells and hoping no one answers and you can leave the package. The last thing you need is the guy that ordered a toy train coming to the door, inspecting the package, then wanting you to stay while he opens it up and inspects the contents for damage that for some reason thinks you, the driver, can file a claim right then and there for him. The driver can't. His job is to drive and deliver. Quickly. Remember the timer? 

We haven't even gotten out in the country yet, with the farmers doggy, the muddy roads, or the paranoid customer who thinks anyone coming down his drive is there to take him away, which someone really should.

Finish off the day, finally. Outgoing pick-ups. That usually goes pretty smooth. They know what they're doing, although when your late, and they're late for supper, they're a little annoyed, but usually understanding. Home for the night, and do it all over again the next morning.

I'm sorry your delivery driver isn't leaving your packages where you want them to, or making a mistake, or, sadly, mistreating your package, but sometimes there are reasons why they do what they do, except for mistreating your package. That's just a bad driver.

Have any of you done anything to help your delivery driver out? Maybe make a nice wooden box or something near the mailbox that he/she can put the package in, so he doesn't have to walk the 300 feet to your door? Perhaps understanding he/she is on a schedule and can't help you with a claim, so don't try and make him/her? 

There's all kind of people out there, and your delivery driver gets to deal with them all, and their driving skills. It's usually a good paying job, but the timer is always on, and the shareholders want to make money. If they're not damaging your package, cut them a break every once in awhile. You might be the nicest guy in the world, but the guy before you might not have been. My experience, though I actually enjoyed it, made me a good judge of people, and also very leary of them.

I’ve worked in freight transportation for grain, mining and chemical companies for 40 years.  I actually spent some time behind the wheel as a commercial driver in both trucks and buses while I was in college.  

I’ve never worked for one of the package delivery firms though and will say thank you for presenting the other side of the coin, as it were.  Because of my own time behind the wheel I’ve always been empathetic with commercial truck drivers.  After reading your “day in the life” of a package delivery driver; I will do my best to be empathetic to them as well.

Curt

The photo should be a "selfie" of the driver gently  placing the package in a secure location.