Advice needed, Postwar chassis to shell screw Alignment

Your pictures did not come through... But use of the correct screws is critical.

The body retaining screws are 6 x 1/4 RHST Z screws... this breaks down in to a size 6 screw with a round head that uses self taping threads of type Z

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONE...-SCREWS/184343445626

Strange that the photos aren’t there. I see them!

trying to load the two photos again.

thank you for the information.

I'm guessing those are 6-32 Round Head Screws. The thread angle is different than that of the Z thread mentioned previously which explains the why the screws are not mounting flat.

Since I believe you mentioned elsewhere that you have quite a few postwar GPs, barrow their body mounting screws to see if they fit properly.

So, I tried that with replacement screws I had on other GP’s, Note original screws went out with the sale of the former GP’s in the past. Replacement screws I took out of presently owned GP’s end up on an angle. There still is a clearance issue. The hole is misaligned unless I use considerable down ward pressure on the shell to see the Shell to chassis mount pathway. Maybe the thread is stripped from the Wong size screws? Geesh! The only other thing I thought of is the vertical post that holds the shell and aligns the hole may be not entirely up ie slightly bent. But it doesn’t look that way.
I did not think the screws would really be an issue but I think under the circumstances they exert a lot of downward pressure With the shell.
the shell is really tight on against the inner posts. 
there are no screw hole splits or damage on this shell. I certainly don’t want to be that guy!

I will post a different observation not in this topic but on the engine.

thx for your patience, answers and advice.

Could you dremel the length a little?

@Buck posted:

Could you dremel the length a little?

Wooh!!! Too high risk behavior to contemplate.
but that got my attention! Lol.

Using shorter screws (or shortening the screws you have with a Dremel) won't fix the core problem.  Namely, that the hole in the shell doesn't line up with the hole in the mounting screw tab on the chassis.

I think it's evident from your other thread that the shell and chassis weren't originally a matched pair.  We believe the chassis has been repainted.  It could even be a Williams chassis.  The green enameled armature is probably original, but you're dealing with a franken-loco here.

If you elongate the screw hole in the body shell into an oval shaped slot (using a drill or jeweller's file), then you can put the screw in straight without fear of cracking the shell.  You only need to add a couple of millimeters, and the upper part of the hole will be covered by the screw head. 

If the shell is original it's a shame to modify it.  But it's much easier to work with the plastic body shell, than it would be to alter the hole in the hard metal tab of the chassis.  My $.02.

@Ted S, I would think if the alignment of the holes is off, the screws would still screw in appropriately and flat against the shell causing there to be a gap all along the base of the shell and frame, not crooked screws...

You should run the screws in straight with out the body on. Then put the body on with the screws.

Ted S, after pondering the possibilities, I am now wondering if I have a Doctored Williams shell! If I were to post Shell photos might they tell the story?  I would be less inclined to alter shell if it truly is original. The original advertisement was highlighted for uncracked, undamaged etc. condition.  
now the topic will additionally morph into shell authenticity!

Lionelparts, tried what you recommended. Really it’s a mismatch affair.
I did however order the screws.

Bmoran4, the shell is so tight against the vertical supports in order to engage the screws it has to be forcefully placed on the chassis to allow the screw to meet the hole.
if there were a space at the shell to chassis the hole would disappear! I originally thought the chassis was bent or distorted. It is not.

next up I will post photos of the shell for identification.

2328-5 part #?  
did I get a MPC or Williams shell?
Is it too pretty to be PW ?

The 2328-5 does appear to be a Lionel shell part number.

Let’s see the chassis....I’ve never seen a thread go on so long about mounting 2 screws to a body/chassis......there’s got to be a simple explanation.....take a pic of just the chassis, then set the shell down on the chassis, and see if your camera can pick up a photo of the mounting hole aligned or not aligned to the stand off the shell screws to....

Pat

Hey Pat, it’s not aligned. That’s the point. Simple explanation includes the shell, flush with questionable frame of unknown origin does not line up the Screw hole. 
should this Topic be trying your patience image how I feel about it. Lol.
I will photograph the chassis. Plus I will put some light inside the chassis (small flashlight ) Aimed at the hole and Add the shell in place, flush. That should show the lack of alignment.

might anyone know if my Pictured shell is Lionel postwar, MPC, or Williams, or doctored up.  Not sure if it is silk screened or other. That would be helpful at this point.

thanking everyone  for your patience, have a great evening!

Thank you Rod Miller. 
But we’re these part numbers used in Corporation Days perhaps transitional to MPC?

@Leroof posted:

Hey Pat, it’s not aligned. That’s the point. Simple explanation includes the shell, flush with questionable frame of unknown origin does not line up the Screw hole. 
should this Topic be trying your patience image how I feel about it. Lol.
I will photograph the chassis. Plus I will put some light inside the chassis (small flashlight ) Aimed at the hole and Add the shell in place, flush. That should show the lack of alignment.

might anyone know if my Pictured shell is Lionel postwar, MPC, or Williams, or doctored up.  Not sure if it is silk screened or other. That would be helpful at this point.

thanking everyone  for your patience, have a great evening!

 

I can imagine the frustration, yes, that’ll be a good idea, shine some light in the hole, let’s see what’s going on....also, a pic of the chassis itself, they’re will be plenty of fellas to determine if the chassis is indeed Postwar, or MPC era ....that shell looks to be authentic Postwar ( judging by the pics)  can you tell if the shell has been renumbered?...again, looking at the pics, it has all the characteristics of being Postwar.....

Pat

@Leroof posted:

Thank you Rod Miller. 
But we’re these part numbers used in Corporation Days perhaps transitional to MPC?

Leroof, I honestly don’t know. 

the simplistic chassis photos are included Below.

OK! So I was not able to fit a light source inside the closed shell on chassis.

so I staged the photos lit from the front with my cell phone flashlight.

in addition I surmised that the shell might have some basilar irregularity. 

so I have an industrial flat piece of aluminum (a fast track template turned upside down) And placed the shell on it for a movie. Front on, and to the side view. What do you think?

first the photos.

look at the space on the chassis to shell relationship. So there is the screw hole misaligned.

now the same with a shell being pushed down on the chassis. The alignment is improved but not true.

The other end with the shell Firmly  pushed down, Right side slightly off the chassis. misaligned hole evident.

next up the shell movie.