American Flyer Prewar 2-4-4 427, What Were They Thinking?

I'm a big tender guy myself. The tender doesn't look right with that beautiful engine....almost like an O Gauge engine with an S Gauge tender.

I agree, it just looks silly. If they added taller trucks to the tender raising it would have been a huge improvement.

Looks OK to me and I'm not even a tinplate kinda guy.  There's no law that tenders have to be huge.  Or is there?

"This tragedy could have been avoided if we only had a larger tender..."

Rusty

"Thou Shalt not attach an Undersized tender to thy Locomotive lest Ye look silly"

Just think of Lionel's postwar scale Hudson with the little streamlined tender from the turbine behind it. Even in the LTI era, Lionel folks were known to say "this is our deluxe tender." That was before they resurrected/remade the NYC style coal tender.

I remember Ed Boyle having a 773 tender and looking for the matching locomotive. He found one and commented how out of place the small the tender was when compared to the engine.

Apparently AF wasn't thinking.....LOL.....Or thinking with their wallet.....LOL

Ah me...what can I say.  I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.

and that's all that matters

Robert S. Butler posted:

Ah me...what can I say.  I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.

I agree Robert.  Although I have to say that in Steve's photos there is something about the tender that makes it look undersized.  I looked at photos that I took of my engine and tender from different angles and I don't think it looks bad at all.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Robert S. Butler posted:

Ah me...what can I say.  I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.

I agree Robert.  Although I have to say that in Steve's photos there is something about the tender that makes it look undersized.  I looked at photos that I took of my engine and tender from different angles and I don't think it looks bad at all.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg, my tender has the small 3/16/type trucks and wheels. In the picture, yours look taller.

steve

Just looked in the 39 & 40 catalogs. It appears in 39, the tender had tall trucks and in 40, it had low trucks.

Steve

RoyBoy posted:

Just think of Lionel's postwar scale Hudson with the little streamlined tender from the turbine behind it. Even in the LTI era, Lionel folks were known to say "this is our deluxe tender." That was before they resurrected/remade the NYC style coal tender.

Or putting a 'Pennsylvania' plastic shell tender behind the remake in 1964. What were they thinking?

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Robert S. Butler posted:

Ah me...what can I say.  I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.

I agree Robert.  Although I have to say that in Steve's photos there is something about the tender that makes it look undersized.  I looked at photos that I took of my engine and tender from different angles and I don't think it looks bad at all.

 

 

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Part of it is the tender's design, but there is a prototype:

As far as the model goes, I'm bothered more by the 4 wheel trailing truck.  But still, it's a fairly attractive model to my scalified eyes.

Rusty

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Just looked in the 39 & 40 catalogs. It appears in 39, the tender had tall trucks and in 40, it had low trucks.

Steve

Steve,

I think that is what makes it look different and a bit undersized.  This combination comes from the transition era to Gilbert designed equipment and I am sure Flyer was trying to use up leftover Chicago Flyer equipment.   I went back to the Greenberg Guide and read the information on the Type VI tender. (page 70) "...The Type VI appeared in the catalog for the last time in 1940, again in the No. 27 combination - but now equipped with Type XIII 3/16 scale freight trucks.  These tenders have rubber-stamped sides."  

So there is the new thing I learned about Flyer for today.  And now you can identify your engine and tender as the  1940 model.

Rusty Traque posted:

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Robert S. Butler posted:

Ah me...what can I say.  I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.

 

Part of it is the tender's design, but there is a prototype:

As far as the model goes, I'm bothered more by the 4 wheel trailing truck.  But still, it's a fairly attractive model to my scalified eyes.

Rusty

Thanks for the prototype photo Rusty.  Its interesting to see how toy manufacturers tried to produce what their customers might have seen in the real world.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

 I missed the change in tender trucks too.  It does make a difference.  I checked mine and I have the larger trucks.  If you have a real broadloom conspiracy railroad and you can lie down on the floor with your head as close to the track as possible the impression of that engine as it rolls by is that of a massive steamer rolling past. It is that sense of mass and size that has always impressed me . Rusty's picture certainly is of the type that Flyer looked to be trying to duplicate as far as overall appearance is concerned.

As we have seen, there's a prototype for everything.

Greg, in your photo, it's hard to tell, but the trucks look something like the XII style which is consistent with the artwork in the 39 catalog. Page 70 in Schuweiler's book shows a 426 with gray VIII style trucks. I have that tender with another loco and height wise looks much better with the 425 loco.

Steve

Steve,

I also have the Type VI tender with the type VIII grey painted trucks.

I have it paired with a 332X locomotive

I also have the other Type VI tender that I have matched up with the #425 locomotive. It has type XII trucks. This tender was an early purchase in my O gauge collecting phase, when I was not quite as concerned with condition.  I just wanted an example of a specific piece of equipment. 

So I am a bit suspicious of this tender as being original equipment; especially when you see how the trucks are fastened to the frame, all of the holes drilled in the frame and the odd looking coupler.

I think it might be time for an upgrade on this particular tender.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Steamer posted:

"Thou Shalt not attach an Undersized tender to thy Locomotive lest Ye look silly" 

But, I'm ok with silly at times   ...actually, quite often

I've been known to be silly myself....