Any pictures of new American Flyer Alco PA?

I don't believe they have arrived yet.

Here's a slightly older Flyer offering with one while we're waiting...

“new” enclosed pilots

There are 2 images on the Lionel AF Facebook site showing test shots of the new pilot openings. One is the closed pilot opening insert, the other is of a small Kadee type coupler with a much smaller pilot opening gap insert. Guessing you get both.

Rich

Here are the new Union Pacific PAs with enclosed pilot on the powered unit.  These photos are too yellow compared to actual model color.   Actual color matches the previous SD70 ACe which I have included for comparison.

Well I just received my invoice email from Charles Ro, so I should be seeing my Nickel Plate Bluebirds real soon.

I did not find the enclosed front pilot on a outdated rehash of a worn out mold worth spending $800plus for!

Gunny

@gunny posted:

I did not find the enclosed front pilot on a outdated rehash of a worn out mold worth spending $800plus for!

Gunny

Gunny,

I hear ya, but ...

I'm guessing that the locomotive in this situation is more worthless than the enclosed pilot in your eyes even though it seems like you've presented it as otherwise.

With the marketing approach you imply, specifically:

1. offering an enclosed front pilot
2. on an outdated rehash
3. for $800
4. applied to a non-descript locomotive

  then the locomotive itself, as part of this deal, comes free of charge.  What a deal!

Either way, on balance it all comes out in the wash, whether you pay $800 for the pilot, which you aren't fond of, or for the locomotive, which you apparently don't like either, since they're sold together as a package deal.

Mike

Mike,

The enclosed pilot is not a new feature and the engine shell lacks any great new detail. I will wait till they release a new locomotive (if ever) .

Gunny

To help in what might be a bit of confusion, the current PA shell is not fabricated from the old Gilbert tooling but was made from new tooling dating from the MPC/LTI days. The pilot cover (oversized to clear the knuckle coupler) and the pilot insert with the opening for a scale coupler are newly tooled. I, for one, would like to be able to purchase some of the new pilot parts to retrofit to my previously purcased L-AF PAs. The decoration is sharp. That said .....

The last time the Legacy PAs were offered about a half decade ago, the street price for a pair was about $560. The ~$809 street price for these new PAs is, shall we say, a bit daunting, considering that they are identical to the last issues which have rather minimal detailing beyond what Gilbert did. The recent Legacy Berks and Pacifics cost noticeably less and are arguably 'more' locomotive. The price is a bit tough to justify, but I do hope that those who are receiving these PAs greatly enjoy them.

For what it is worth.

Bob

List price is $900

In 2017 list price was $699, equivalent to $876 in 2023 dollars.

In 2014 list price was $650 equivalent to $843 in 2023 dollars

For those interested. Bluebirds

I have a set of the earlier PA/PA's in PRR green. Like this current release these are Legacy engines with a fan driven smoke unit in both the powered unit and the dummy unit. They have electrocouplers and directional lighting. The only change I see is the weird looking pilot cover. The engines run great and have a realistic speed range. My only gripe after owning the set for 6 years is the position of the front truck which is apparently unfixable.

One can always buy a pair of the American models PA's, I have a set converted to TMCC/Railsounds. They look a little better but no smoke and no electrocouplers. It is no longer possible to install TMCC in AM diesels because the ERR Cruise Lite boards are permanently out of production and unavailable. Any new purchases of AM diesels are limited to conventional operations and DCC installations. Just FYI, the total cost to purchase the two AM PA's and have TMCC/Railsounds added was more than the street price of these Lionel AF Legacy engines.

@AmFlyer posted:

I have a set of the earlier PA/PA's in PRR green. Like this current release these are Legacy engines with a fan driven smoke unit in both the powered unit and the dummy unit. They have electrocouplers and directional lighting. The only change I see is the weird looking pilot cover. The engines run great and have a realistic speed range. My only gripe after owning the set for 6 years is the position of the front truck which is apparently unfixable.

One can always buy a pair of the American models PA's, I have a set converted to TMCC/Railsounds. They look a little better but no smoke and no electrocouplers. It is no longer possible to install TMCC in AM diesels because the ERR Cruise Lite boards are permanently out of production and unavailable. Any new purchases of AM diesels are limited to conventional operations and DCC installations. Just FYI, the total cost to purchase the two AM PA's and have TMCC/Railsounds added was more than the street price of these Lionel AF Legacy engines.

Hi Tom,

I am disappointed with the discontinued Cruise Lite and now the Mini-2, these were the only boards that were suited for S diesels. I looked into the Soundtrax Blunami which is DCC and with the capability to operate without a DCC base. I have installed a 2200 in my FM Trainmaster and am quite pleased with. I did deal with some frustration, no fault of Soundtraxx, but after finding that our clubs power packs were not supplying smooth power and correcting that I feel that is where I am heading. There will be no smoke or electrocouplers but I can live with that. The fact that the decoders come with a great variety of sounds and so many lighting options, no need to purchase a mars light kit its in the decoder, is selling me on these decoders. I know there will be some finagling to convert the AC track power to DC inside engines with little room as in the AM GPs  but, I see little future in S for TMCC/Legacy which is disappointing to say the least. I am considering pulling the Cruise Lites out of my engines and going totally to the Blunami decoders if I can come up with the power conversion in the engines.

Cost-wise the conversion to the Blunami is competitive to the Legacy and cheaper if you tackle it yourself. Soundtraxx stands behind you for three months after purchase of the decoder if you happen to mess up your install. I believe you will find that you have much better low speed performance with the Sountraxx option and with the push of a button you can even set momentum on the fly. My only concern at this time is the conversion of the AC to DC in the engine, for now I am running the Blunami on DC power.

Ray

Ray, thanks for the update on what you are doing. I have been following the Blunami developments but not had a reason to try any so far. What controller are you using to operate the Blunami engines? I can run all the engines on my layout with the Cab2 and have so many TMCC AM engines the discontinuation of the Cruise Lite boards is not an issue for me. The concern I have is the same one expressed by posters above, where are all the new Legacy engines in the Lionel priorities? The reality is any new AF Legacy engines will likely be expensive, I am prepared for that.

@JFC454 posted:

List price is $900

In 2017 list price was $699, equivalent to $876 in 2023 dollars.

In 2014 list price was $650 equivalent to $843 in 2023 dollars

Fair enough. Another way of looking at it. I go by street price because that is what folks usually pay. Again, the recent Legacy Berks and Pacifics are better buys  price-wise. Lionel needs to pay some heed to pricing. There are an awful lot of those $1600 Y3's still sitting around. Please don't get me wrong. The new Alcos look sharp, but I would tend to believe that more than a few of us are having some trouble getting used to $800 Flyer PA pairs with no significant enhancements.

Have fun.

Bob

My 12 year old son did a review on our UP set.   He (we) were excited to get them.

https://youtu.be/BoB9KzdGo9s?feature=shared

Ben

Finally got around to testing my new NKP and Southern PA's.

Super nice paint work and lettering.

New pilot's and couplers change the look.

NKP blue trucks look sharp.

These new releases have changed from the old Flyer type horns to a more prototypical setup. The last release of my freight version solid blue MP units had the old style.

Pricy motive power, but very nice.

Rich

Having American Flyer is a boy I still have a 'soft spot' for them but $800 is a shocker. Had several American Models PA sets years ago and they looked so much better than the Flyer sets. Makes you wonder how MTH could have produced highly detailed HO models of the handsome PA's with full DCS sound AND smoke in the smaller units????

Both independently powered with all features for about $400 or less for the pair.

There is a beautiful set of the AM PA's in the chrome Warbonnet scheme with both A units powered and the B with sound at a very reasonable price on the auction site.  Not mine.