Are older Gargraves switches still worth using?

I don't see why not.  They may not be the "cat's meow", but many folks use them every day.  $20 for the whole box makes the price right, that's for sure!

Evaporust is your friend.

That's what I was thinking!  I couldn't resist.  I also got 60 stainless 3 foot sections for 55.  I was pleased.  

Now to clean up the switches.  Just give them the vinegar bath like some people do for restoring tube track? 

I'd have jumped on either deal.

Good buy. Check rail distance to make sure there are no distortion. 

Those look like an earlier generation of Gargraves switches from the 50's or 60's era as the switch frog uses a movable plate and not rails. I call them Gen 1 switches and they aren't as good as the Gen2 (hollow rail) , or Gen 3 (solid rail) designs.  I believe that they can be made to work but for mainline work on PW/MPC Lionel but the width and location of the pickup rollers may present a problem on these especially with later model O gauge trains.  I would test with the equipment that you intend to run. If that doesn't work out they can always be used on sidings used for effect but not operation.

I am sure you know that magna traction does not work on stainless but most engines now have tires. I have a number of Gargrave switches that I bought in the 70's and never used that I may use in my yard simply for expense reasons.

Fifty switches for $20.  If half fail this is a great deal.  Ditto on the track purchase.  Well worth the effort to clean up.

petrifiedagg posted:

I am sure you know that magna traction does not work on stainless...

Great buy.  I must have at least 50 of them on my layout.

So it appears that 8 of them are the Gen 2 switches.   That is kind of cool.  

The seller has about 20 more cleaner switches.  They are asking 12 a piece

I should look and see if they are newer ones.  What would a fair price for them if they are gen 1 or gen 2?  

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Those look like an earlier generation of Gargraves switches from the 50's or 60's era as the switch frog uses a movable plate and not rails. I call them Gen 1 switches and they aren't as good as the Gen2 (hollow rail) , or Gen 3 (solid rail) designs.  I believe that they can be made to work but for mainline work on PW/MPC Lionel but the width and location of the pickup rollers may present a problem on these especially with later model O gauge trains.  I would test with the equipment that you intend to run. If that doesn't work out they can always be used on sidings used for effect but not operation.

The switches Bob shows are generation 2 not the gen.1 Gargraves Closing Frog switches.  See photos,  Gen I  closing frog,  Gen 2 swivel points, and O-100.  The Gen 1 switches are made from both solid rail, the part which pivots, and hollow rail, the rails fastened to the base. In spite of the less than prototype appearance the Gen 1 Gargraves switches do when properly tweeked work very well and have one great advantage. You can run two rail trains with scale size wheel flanges through them.  All these early Gargraves switches are sort of  O-72 though all the turn takes place in about 6" they give some long wheelbase steam locos trouble.  All these early gargraves switches work very well when used in a yard with small locomotives.  If you want to run larger locos the O-100 switches are the way to go.   In my photos notice that all the arc occurs in a short span on the gen 1 switches where the arc runs the length of the switch on the O-100 Gargraves switches.         j

Only if a derailment would not put your equipment on to the floor. 

I had a mix of Ross and GG turnouts for my 3 rail but because being the ribbon road bed is 55" above concrete without scenery as yet I opted to only use the new Ross.

The very early Gargraves switches had wood ties and work very well. I "switched" to Ross because of the variety of types of switches available. Your switches should work well with a little TLC. You did well. Don

Great find.

At $0.40 per switch I would try and find a way to make them work.  

The only issue I have found with these is the frog is not deep enough to accomodate wheels with deep flanges. The fix is to take a Dremel with a cutoff wheel and remove some of the plastic between the rails. 

Pete

naw there absolute crap, I'll take them all off your hands for what you paid for them...

The newer type with solid metal points are much less troublesome.  While most of the pre 1990 ones with the sheet metal points have been relegated to yard service on my layout, I still have some on the main loops.  Some work OK, some give me problems with occasional derailments.  I have a few crossovers with limited space between tracks.  The Gargraves switches can be modified to reduce the distance between adjacent tracks.

Worth using? Gee, I hope so, as I have a couple of dozen+ on my layout that work fine, and have since 1990...should I stop using them? What to do, what to do....

Also, I have never had any equipment with flanges too deep for the frogs.

I am a two-railer and would have taken both deals; especially the switches at $0.40 each!!

So.  I decided to see what would happen if I took one of the most rusty switches and soaked it in vinegar for a couple of days. 

After I soaked it, I rinsed it off with a brush and some baking soda.  Then I used a sanding block to polish the top of the rails and then sprayed it down with wd40 and wiped it down.  

The top picture is one of the other switches that was almost as bad as the one I soaked .  I forgot to get a pic of it before I soaked it but it was in very slightly worse condition.   The bottom picture is of how the finished switch looks now.

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You can see how the vinegar ate away all the paint on the points and frog but honestly, i'm not worried about that at 40 cents a switch.     I think it should be plenty usable now. 

I am going to try to restore all of the rusty switches like that but use Evaporust or CLR which hopefully will be much quicker.  Then I will have a lovely stash of ready to go restored switches when I finally setup a layout someday.  

Even if I don't use them now, I do want to restore them so the rust doesn't continue to eat away at the switches.  

And mind you, I only have like 7 or so of the extremely rusty switches like above.  The majority of them are not nearly as rusty, they have more bits of surface rust but will probably take to cleaning much better.   

I just wanted to start off with the worst example to see just how far I could restore it.  

Try soaking them in a mixture of oxalic acid and water. Oxalic acid removes rust but wont harm metal or paint.You will have to try different strength levels .Rinse with water after soaking.

@South Shore Trains posted:

Try soaking them in a mixture of oxalic acid and water. Oxalic acid removes rust but wont harm metal or paint.You will have to try different strength levels .Rinse with water after soaking.

The only issue I have with using the Oxalic acid is that I am not to interested in preserving the paint on the frog and points.  The reason being is that the rust is significant enough that if the acid ate away at the rust but left the paint behind, there would be a lot of discoloration anyway.  Now I end up with clean looking metal with no paint rather than splotchy looking paint.   

I might try that for the switches that don't have much rust on them though. 

@bobotech posted:

So.  I decided to see what would happen if I took one of the most rusty switches and soaked it in vinegar for a couple of days. 

After I soaked it, I rinsed it off with a brush and some baking soda.  Then I used a sanding block to polish the top of the rails and then sprayed it down with wd40 and wiped it down.  

The top picture is one of the other switches that was almost as bad as the one I soaked .  I forgot to get a pic of it before I soaked it but it was in very slightly worse condition.   The bottom picture is of how the finished switch looks now.

 

\

You can see how the vinegar ate away all the paint on the points and frog but honestly, i'm not worried about that at 40 cents a switch.     I think it should be plenty usable now. 

I am going to try to restore all of the rusty switches like that but use Evaporust or CLR which hopefully will be much quicker.  Then I will have a lovely stash of ready to go restored switches when I finally setup a layout someday.  

Even if I don't use them now, I do want to restore them so the rust doesn't continue to eat away at the switches.  

And mind you, I only have like 7 or so of the extremely rusty switches like above.  The majority of them are not nearly as rusty, they have more bits of surface rust but will probably take to cleaning much better.   

I just wanted to start off with the worst example to see just how far I could restore it.  

bobotech

You did a real great job cleaning up that horrible looking switch.

Good find and good job! 

One problem with using an acid to remove the rust is that the rust has made millions of tiny crevices that will have two negative effects.  They will re-rust very easy and all the tiny pits will cause arcing as the locomotive wheels and pickup rollers move along the rails.  If the rails were not on a plastic base you could shot peen them to help close up the pores.  Since that is not a viable option some way to burnish the head of the rails would help.  A piece of steel vigorously rubbed on the head of the rails couldn't hurt.    A clear lacquer coating on the rails web and foot or perhaps a weathered rail paint job in these areas and a burnished head. You can always run your trains everyday that is a proven way to keep the rust away.          j

Get a tube of Whal clipper oil, or other lube meant to protect bare metals. Firearm /fishing offerings are useful. CRC electrical contact cleaner coats too.

I had done air brush work on switches as clean as this.  Top of rail has to be clean/bare, for electrical conductivity, sides can be detailed/painted. IMO, A suggestion. 

Air brush Painted, Model Master, Railroad Tie Brown. :

Before paint. 

Heavy cleaning, with a wire brush,  will remove galvanized plating, exposing metal, to additional corrosion, without some type of protection,  There is a time factor, value, that needs to be considered, when refurbishing, used track, and switches.   IMO.  Mike CT 

I have them on my layout.  I stopped the derailments on the older GG switches by adding more length to the guard rail across from the frog.

Then I painted them black.

Those switches have been working on my layout since 1980. They had to be tweaked when installed but have needed no service since then, I used the old KTM switch machines. They are no longer made.

Great work and cleaver idea. That extra rail really holds the wheels in place. I often see this method used on prototype railroads

[QUOTE]   Top of rail has to be clean/bare, for electrical conductivity, sides can be detailed/painted. IMO, A suggestion. [QUOTE/]

You are correct that black paint stops electrical conductivity BUT gun blue will blacken the center rails and will keep the conductivity. Gargraves phantom track uses this method.

So I'm finally done cleaning the switches.  Looks like I ended up with two different types.  

I ended up with about 50 decent looking switches after getting rid of any rust and dirt. 

Ended up with about 4 that were not useable and used for parts to fix other switches.  

Need to source a tiny coil compression spring for a few of the switches.  Also need to perform a little bit of desoldering of the old feed wires on a few of them.  But overall I'm pretty pleased. 

Pictures below.