BSA Anniversary Train

Absolutely NOT interested.  I guess the big selling point of American Flyer was that it was "realistic" and, while one can quibble about how far to take that, a train like you describe is so UNrealistic that it does not appeal to this former Assistant Scoutmaster, Former Senior Patrol Leader, Life Scout, Order of the Arrow and graduate of Schiff Scout Reservation training. 

This proposed set is just is too "Lionel" to appeal to me. 

Little Tommy

I would be interested in an engine only if the headlight was in the nose. A set of fantasy cars? No.

Boy, big John, you sure are getting some adamant answers.  I don't see why an entire BSA S-gauge train would be out of order.  If some folks want prototype S goods only, that's their option, but don't foreclose the possibility for others.  Both Lionel & MTH have produced O-gauge products with both prototype & fantasy schemes for years... leaving it to the BUYER to decide. 

With all respect to Radio Ron, I agree that the Buyer should decide if they want such a set or not.   I thought Big John Henry was just trying to see if there was interest and was looking for honest opinions.

 I don't know if there is the same kind of market for fantasy trains in S gauge as there is in O gauge. I certainly don't know if the number of people out there who would like an S Scale Boy Scout Train is sufficient to make production of one profitable. 

I know for sure that I'm not interested, but there are lots of things I am not interested in that someone else might like. 

I sure hope that Lionel sells lots of American Flyer, so they will devote more money and effort to the American Flyer product line and, hopefully, they will then make something that I will want to buy. 

My worst case scenario is that Lionel might take a financial beating because they produce something insufficient numbers of people want, and subsequently reduce their presence in the S Gauge train market as a result.

Little Tommy

I think that seeing that none of the UP or NS fantasy freight car paint has been carried over to the 57' mechanical reefers is an indication of less interest in fantasy stuff(except for maybe Christmas) in S.

I'm not saying there's no interest, just a smaller pool of interest than Lionel's used to.

Rusty

I agree with Radio Ron to some extent.  I still wonder if there is a big enough market for these Fantasy Items in S scale to make their production profitable. 

I wonder if people that wanted those fantasy items that were produced in O gauge but not in S gauge switched to O gauge or stayed in O gauge and that many of the folks that stayed in S gauge or were attracted to S gauge did so precisely because what was being produced in S gauge was NOT like what was in O gauge only smaller.  I just don't know anyone actively in S gauge who wants these fantasy items. 

I'm not saying there aren't folks out there who want those fantasy items to be made in S gauge, but I sure don't know them.  Maybe they will, as Radio Ron hopes, expand the market for S and make things better for all of us.  On the other hand, maybe these items will be like the infamous Lionel  "girls train" and be commercial failures that became beloved by collectors for the very reason that they did not sell.  The only thing I do know is that the folks I know in S are a "different breed of Cat" than those I know who are in Three Rail O.

I don't know of a good way to judge the market for this Fantasy stuff.  Do any of you know?

Little Tommy

Although one can't argue personal taste, I do think that some of the Lionel O Gauge fantasy items are a little far fetched or gimicky--like the MacDonalds train etc.  The same is true with S Gauge.  I can't imagine shipping Hershey's chocolate in an open hopper. However, I also think that the American Flyer Catalog Boxcars are really cool, and the Christmas boxcars can be whimsical.  (Why is the 1999 Christmas car going for $200?)  Additionally, because my dad worked for Heinz all his life, I have the K-Line Heinz cars as well.  To each his own.

Mark

Not to belabor the point, but the Hershey open top hopper has been cataloged for 2 years in a row and many Online dealers are offering it for $18-20 dollars less than the cataloged price, suggesting to me that it is not selling as well as Lionel predicted. 

Now to belabor the point (and I promise to shut up after this), I just don't know what the size of the market is for these types of fantasy items.

Little Tommy

I suspect that you may have the 1990 holiday car in mind (48309) rather than the 48341, which tends to be more in the ~ $80 area. The 48309 is relatively scarce and the first in the series, which explains the going price range.

To help answer the original question, I have little interest in commemorative BSA Flyer, but I understand why others might. The folks at Lionel are guilty to some extent of applying 3-rail postwar 0 gauge sensibilities to Flyer fantasy cars and have a limited view of the Flyer "culture". The clear shell Dockside and caboose (which did not make it to production) and the mint cars are examples. Flyer collectors tend to not stretch creditability beyond a loosely defined breaking point. So, a Hershey's (to carry syrup) and smoke fluid tank cars kind of "work" while a hopper car does not -- and tank cars usualy sell better than hoppers anyway. The 2013 catalog was overloaded with commemorative Gilbert Flyer and fantasy cars. There is a market for fantasy, commemorative, branded, and club collector cars. However, Lionel might be better served by cataloging only a few per year.

...and the scale folk may just as well flip by the pages containing such 'foolishness'.

A humble opinion is that the range of products offered is OK. I can find some items of interest in every catalog, but do not desire a lot of what is offered. What is more vexing, however, is the glacial pace of new product development and its physical delivery to market.

Bob

Well I'd guess a wait of 9-12 months after release of the fantasy stuff would be enough time to begin seeing the "Blowout" prices from the larger retailers especially on-line retailers. I would guess they might buy a minimum of all cars produced so as not to be scrambling if the orders start coming in.

When few orders come in look for the blowouts.

My $0.02.

Mark

Bob Bubeck,

Bob, I just checked Ebay and Marty's Trains has the 1999 Christmas boxcar listed for $199.  This seems to be in the ballpark with other prices I have seen.

Mark

P.S.  Have any of you really purchased a Winnie the Pooh boxcar?  Seems like "they" should pay us to take them.

P.P.S.  Found another site where a 1999 Christmas Boxcar went for $230!

That's a 'buy it now'. Let's see if it sells. Such observations do show that some of the holiday cars do command a premium, there is a market for them and, hence, have a place in the catalogs.

Thanks for the sighting, Mark.

Bob

Splitting hairs, here, Mark, but the only O gauge McDonalds set I recall was from MTH & I don't think that went over well even in O gauge.  I recall seeing lots of break-up pieces from that set at York for a couple of years.  I believe Lionel made a Burger King engine in the MPC era though.  I am a long-time O-gauger coming to a point of possibly switching to S because the variety now offered in S by Lionel & MTH has really "hit the fan."  Lionel's new S track is a great starting point.   Plus, there is so much more you can do with S in the same space as O.  SO, yes, I would be one to look for whimsical items in S as part of bringing me over from O.

What?  NASCAR and Major League Baseball sets gimmicky?  I'm shocked.  Shocked, I say...

Getting back to the BSA locomotive, I'm neither here nor there on it.  It exists in real life, and if I modeled the contemporary UP, well, maybe.  What was interesting, when Lionel announced the O Gauge UP/BSA locomotive, a lot of our 3-rail friends complained that the locomotive's decoration was, well... boring.   I guess they expected something along the lines of the impressionistic Heritage paint.

Rusty