Buying Used Stuff

I buy a lot of used "stuff" for train layout, and have had mostly good results, and have really only run into one bad seller.  More often (but still rare) I encounter uninformed sellers, who unintentionally get something wrong in the description.  They accidently list the scale of a model car as 1:43 when it is 1:36, or ne seller trying to get rid of his Dad's estate listed a 3rd Rail loco as having "high-rail wheels" when they were scale.  He didn't know the difference . . . told me "I thought all O-Gauge locos were called that . . ."  He seemed sincere and offered to take it back and refun but I kept and just replaced the wheels). 

I buy a ton of used stuff, and there is an occasional "klinker" in the pile, but mostly I get what I expect or even better.

Funny thing Don, I also used to dabble in antique radios, I still have a couple around.

I've purchased all of my collection used. Like John, most pieces have arrived as advertised. I've had one or two clunkers too, but I find the the troubleshooting and repair to be enjoyable. As long as the repair parts don't exceed the value of the engine I'm happy.

Bob

All good observations.

I prefer buying used stuff,  because:

A. I'm cheap,   and...

B. I like to tinker, so buying something new, taking it out of the box, and just running it is not as much fun (to me) as getting something I will probably have to work on/fix. The process of trouble-shooting, hunting down the needed parts and seeing it all come together is where I get my biggest "buzz". 

As "bob2" would say..."opinion". 

Mark in Oregon

I’m all about used stuff... there’s plenty out there and much less expensive (usually) than the new things that may just not work as advertised.  I’ve spared myself a lot of disappointment by buying used and tinkering if need be. (I’ve saved some money as well!)

I buy used stuff for a few reasons. The first and biggest is price. On a fixed income, I can't afford new stuff.

My second reason is that the trains I like are the vintage ones, so used is the only option.

The last reason is that I like to fix things. I have ran into some projects that ended up costing more to repair than to replace.

The biggest issue I have with buying used is with electronics. I understand how they work and I can replace components. I just have horrible luck with them.

5 years ago I had a nice  Marx Sound O' Power tender that stopped working. It was a simple circuit board, all it needed was either a speaker or new capacitors. I decided to replace the caps first, big mistake. I somehow managed to screw it up. I never worked again. I had to buy another one and I've only ran I a couple of times for a few minutes because I'm scared it will quit working and I won't be able to repair it. If I could ever get the other one working, I'd finally be able to enjoy using it. Sorry if I kinda got off topic 

You mean there is another way to buy other than used or old? 

The last new car I bought was in 1969 and my newest now is 10 years old bought used of coarse.  None of the five houses I have bought were new.  My trains are pre war, stereos are 1970s "vintage", and most tools from 50s to maybe 80s.  I like used and older as even I can fix most of them. 

At one time NEW meant better or more reliable but that is not often true now.

Charlie

I’m leery of buying used online anymore. Been burned too many times with weird stuff you would never think to ask about. 

Once train shows come back and I can see what I’m getting, then I’m fine with it. 

I factor the possibility of repairs into what I'll pay for a used item.  Although I prefer to buy at train shows, doing so is no guarantee regarding electronics, unless you can fully test the functions before taking it home.  My main concern with online purchases is loss or damage in transit.

 I am speaking mostly of locomotives which are far more complex than are running stock pieces. 

Buying from members of this forum have been 100% and usually better priced as well.  But over other sites, auctions, e-bay and for sure Craig's List- be cautious. 

I have found:

- Chances are that a "pre-owned" locomotive has few hours of run time.  (You can usually tell from blowing up the collector sections of the underneath pics.)   MOST people RUN their trains very little.  I have even bought locos on e-bay , described as used, that seemed to me were just removed from the box or displayed, and are really brand new.

But I will NEVER buy a truly used one where the seller has NOT tested it, such as from an online antique dealer or estate seller who knows nothing about trains.  Words like "looks like new, but I have not tested it" and I move on.  A new one in the box from such a dealer is probably worth the chance, but only if the price is right.

-  I have had some bad experiences with ordering brand new locos when the catalog comes out.  First, I HATE ordering then waiting a year or more to get something.  Also, locos are SO complicated that the chances of having something wrong are pretty high, I think.  (One reason why I wish  manufacturers would "simplify" and not put in features that are meaningless- opening doors and the like- adding cost and decreased reliability. ) 

-  A used locomotive has had all those "new loco" bugs worked out.

- I have had good results buying older "modern" locomotives- say Lionel TMCC's and Legacies from 2008- to  5 or 6 years old.  They are available at less cost,  have DC motors w/ cruise, and lots of features.  After that time, IMO they started adding all kinds of meaningless (to me) features.   But I have had a problem or two that I had to work out.

More on "used"-  I have been successful making offers- sometimes at 50% of asking. 

I recently bought a Legacy GP7- built in 2008, and paid asking price from a dealer.  It was shown as "tested" and "works perfect".    I got it, it runs like a watch, and I love it,  so I didn't really mind paying top dollar.

But I also just bought a NEW, boxed Legacy GP-7 by offering  20% less than asking. (and also 20% less than the one above that I bought 4 weeks ago which WAS used.)  We'll see when I get it....

I always expect less so I am hardly ever disappointed. Besides which, I usually end up taking a hacksaw to them anyways so it hardly matters!

I have about 60 locomotives. I just took a count last night. most all were bought used. I for the most part like troubleshooting stuff. If you know what to look for you get some great locomotives at almost half off.

seems also the ones I have bought brand new specifically lionel legacy locos have all had issues either right out of the box or right after the one year warrenty runs out. so they are almost like buying used as far as reparing them goes.

they only downside to having to fix or repair locomotives these days is the cost of the parts. some times they are even hard to get as the part you need may be out of stock. plus its hard when you want certain used models you see and you have to decided do I keep collecting engines or fix the ones I have that are broken.

I tend to put off fixing stuff,but with mth closing it changed my attitude toward getting my broken locos running. I just made a nice small parts order from lionel and fixed all my legacy engines with small issues I had been puting off fixing. now all my lionel locomotive roster runs as it should. now I need to upgrade some older stuff to ps3 and then I will have a 100% working roster of locos I can run.

I only run command and cruise locomotives so it can be a challenge finding older engines at a price that works for me sometimes. at ane time I had an mth railking imperial n&w j and sold it for funds to get something else. I realy hated selling that engine.

Then low and behold one showed up here on the for sale board with all the matching passenger cars. the price was so good I grabed it up. the seller said it was like new. when I got it and started opening things up I was shocked. he understated the condition. apon opening the locomotive and each car you would have thought you just went and purchased this set from the hobby shop. it was absolutely flawless. 

most of my used engines off ebay have been as advertised,but buying off this forum has all ways been 100% reiliable for me at lest. espcially if you know the seller.

lastly the best thing about buying used is getting models I could not afford back when when they were new. I always loved the lionmaster line but could not afford those engines when they came out. now I have almost all the ones I wanted back then and they were all purchased at about have the price and they all look and perform like new. so in short if your smart and savy used is a great way to go.

I have been staying away from dealers for about 6 months or so. I've had bad experiences. I was loyal to one of them and asked this dealer to call a manufacturer for me an help resolve a problem. I was basically told I am on my own. These experiences make it very easy to buy used from Ebay, and the buy/sell category on this forum. Since I dont buy Lionel and MTH is soon to close, there  won't be much left other than used. I have been successful with used stuff.

I purchased most of my trains and accessories used.  I've made purchases from folks here on the OGR Forum and have had fine results.  

My E bay purchases ( since 2007 ) have rarely disappointed me and the couple of times they were disappointing, the seller was always good about taking the item back.  Usually this happens when the seller innocently listed the item as "O scale" when in fact it was O gauge... usually from a person unfamiliar with O gauge vs. O scale trains ... such as someone selling their relative's collection upon the passing of the relative.   I had an experience with a seller selling some " brand new" Weaver freight cars as a lot of three.  Once the cars arrived to me, I discovered that the cars were indeed "brand new"  still in factory sealed boxes, however, there were no trucks or couplers on any of the cars.  The seller, was someone not familiar with model trains, was extremely apologetic to the point of embarrassment, and agreed to take the three cars back.  The seller told me that she had acquired them from an estate and never dreamed they had no wheels or couplers.  My personal lesson there;  to always view the entire car not just thru the see through Weaver boxes they are packed in, for those see thru boxes do not expose the wheels or couplers.  The thing is, I was not upset about this transaction, but the poor seller was upset and embarrassed to no end.  I assured her that she was a fine honest person and not being a train person, she rightfully assumed the cars were brand new and fully intact.  A totally innocent mistake on her part.  

Of course I've bought lots of my rolling stock at train shows ( remember those? ... they WILL return! ) and on E bay.  I tend to like " Best Offer" on the Bay.  I've made some ridiculously low offers and have won the deal.  I've done this at train shows too and the buyer has accepted my offer.  This has happened to me several times.  I can't say that I've ever been burnt by a seller either on the Bay, at train shows, or any other venue. 

I do stay away from on line sellers that state " looks brand new but has not been tested".  Once I see those words I move on.  

At train shows, I always test locomotives, before handing over the cash. Thats just good common sense.  If the seller does not have a test track at their booth, then I have them walk with me to  one of the show's test tracks.  I did have a seller who told me that a certain MTH PS 2 locomotive, which I was very interested in, worked fine.  Once we began to walk over to the show's test track he started mumbling that the transformer the show used was problematic.... and that he knew that he should have brought his own test track and transformer.    We arrived at the test track, turned on the juice,  the locomotive would not move..... even after he tinkered with it.  Again he blamed it on the type of transformer the show was using ( don't remember what kind now but it was a standard digital transformer ... either Lionel or MTH ) and told me that the locomotive worked just fine before he left his house ... which was 300 miles from where I live.  He was giving me the hard sell ... telling me that if I took it home it would more than likely work with my Z4000 ... and if not I could return it to him.  I told him to bring his own test equipment to the next show along with that particular loco and once I saw it working I would "think" about buying it then ... if in fact I had not found the same loco somewhere else.   Since then, the  same seller show up to those shows regularly, but with no test track.  He may be an honest guy, however,  because of that one experience I'm not comfortable with buying trains from him.  I choose to keep on walking by his table.  

In the last 15 - 20 years, my purchase of new equipment (especially locos) has approached - not equalled - zero. I'm probably the reason Mike Wolf decided to retire....

But seriously, folks....I see many references above to "used" and "needs fixing" as two sides of the same coin. I have bought a few real bargains knowing that they were messed up or incomplete (as in boards, for example) and appeared to be something that I could fix. So far, so good. But most of my used stuff has been simply that - "used" and needing nothing but lubrication. Much of this "used" stuff has been essentially MIB - and some, NIB. But, but, being 20 - 30 years old makes it "used", I guess.  Fine by me. 

A thought  to Mike W about purchasing engines which have not been tested. For most ( including PW, Williams, Lionel, etc.  ) I agree-but with Proto1&2 MTH engines, I can honestly understand why a "collector/non-runner"seller would not want to "test" such an engine in which the original battery has probably gone bad-so for these, and if the seller is clear that the engine has never been run,  I have taken the chance and purchased them-put in a new battery/ capacitor-and to date have not been burnt. Thoughts?  turtle7

@D500 posted:

In the last 15 - 20 years, my purchase of new equipment (especially locos) has approached - not equalled - zero. I'm probably the reason Mike Wolf decided to retire....

Hey don't take all the credit for Mike's retirement; I contributed to it also.

Just for the sake of discussion. One of my worst experiences was recent off of the big auction site. 100% positive feedback over 2600 reviews and most if not all was O guage stuff. He continues to get rave reviews since my purchase and return.

This set was advertised as new, and the apparently "stock" photos indicated that.   The actual item was absolutely filthy, like it came out of a flooded basement or septic tank and reeked of mildew.

 I only unpacked the powered A unit ( that was enough) and never even attempted to see if it ran.

It had splotches of brown" who knows what" on it and even the metal grab irons were rusted. There was also pieces of ballast in the gearsets.

The seller offered a huge discount and if they weren't completely disgusting, I would have considered keeping them.

The thing that rubbed me the wrong way is his statement that "he was sorry they were not perfect enough for me, but they were perfect to him". I'd hate to see his place.

Ultimately I received a complete refund without issue and returned them

Please enjoy these photos Lol! Hopefully its been a few hours since you had your lunch.

Rick.  Glad you got a refund.  What a rip-off.   

We get used donations to our club. Usual cars like sunoco or gondolas. Some pieces are chipped or have battery leakage. We may keep some nice pieces but usually bring it to our local auction facility.

I have had good luck buying used trains from members on the OGR Forum, and from friends in the hobby. I recently purchased a nice steam locomotive that was said to be unopened in the original carton. Thinking that meant new, I was very satisfied with the deal. Upon receiving the item, it was in the original sealed carton, but the buyer bought it from someone at York. In the carton, after opening the boxes I found price stickers well below what I paid, dust on the locomotive, and an index card showing the item and price, so, the next time I’ll check to see if the seller has tested the engine himself first hand. Either way, it’s what I wanted and it’s going to be fine. Everyone is happy, I’m mostly a new buyer, and that’s because I do like warranties. Being retired, my budget is less. Great thread fellows. Happy Railroading 

Had a powered 3rd rail fl9 come in from eBay with a fried R4LC board :/ Took me about 3 hours to figure it out. Switched out the board from one of my other engines and it ran ok but still no sounds... I tried everything to make the sounds work. I’m guessing the issue is a bad speaker

The reason I buy used stuff is because most of the stuff I want was made years ago and that is the only way I can get what I want. I don't mind repairing an item if I know about the problem up front. I have had plenty of surprises and frustrations, but in the end I had what I wanted with a little effort. With the demise of K-Line, Weaver and the upcoming closing of MTH, it looks like buying used is going to continue to be the norm for me.

When the Beverly Hillbillies bought their mansion with their oil money, they threw out all the priceless antiques. They told their dumbfounded banker they could afford new stuff now, why keep all that old junk.

I'd say about 1/3 of my 20+ engines are new or new old stock, the rest are used.  Freight and passenger are probably 80% new, 15% used, and 5% scratchbuilt or heavily modified bought items.

It comes down to matching expectations.  There are buyers who would expect an items listed as "used" to be in like new cosmetic condition and perfectly functioning, even if it was being sold for 20% of MSRP.  There are sellers who think "used" is a sufficient warning for a car that has busted trucks and missing parts.

I buy used items.  Maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of what I own was acquired that way.  I'm not at the point though where I will be content if "on the whole" I come out ahead.  If something is being listed as "like new" or "in great condition", the seller isn't a dealer standing behind the sale and the seller says he can't test it, I will assume it doesn't work.  That is an assumption that has probably cost me a number of great bargains over the years.  It has also probably saved me from a number of disappointments.

Gunrunnerjohn is in the best position--he knows his beans and can probably diagnose a problem faster than we can get the loco unwrapped from the box. If I had that level of knowledge, I'd never have any hesitation about buying used.

But even with my limited knowledge, used stuff has worked out for me. The forum is great. But I've had good luck all over, not just here. 

Now if there was just some way to get these kits to build themselves....

Don

I sell a lot online, many of the freight cars I get maybe were pulled out of the box and put on a shelf, they were never run. Unless it is sealed in plastic I list it as used.

I always buy used.   I use to buy new but I went all Postwar now.   I rarely have a problem and when I do we always work it out.    eBay has been very good to me.

NO O gauge, but I have a very honest and reliable LGB online dealer that usually has a great selection of "pre owned" original (made in Germany) items. Many are mint to like new as they are usually purchased from large collections whose owner is often known to my seller as a former buyer. I have acquired some beautiful equipment from my reliable dealer. He, his wife and daughter are also careful packers and shippers. NO complaints!

In addition to new dealer and club items I have purchased a lot of mostly unused items from the secondary market.  My experience with the pre-owned items is equal to or better than the new items.  Plus you don't have to wait two years for the items to arrive.

The few items where I've had problems were due to shipping damage which affects both old and new, unless you go to a show or brick and mortar store.

I have bought many used items over the years, and can count on one hand the number of times I had problems with the items. 

You are right about having to fix old radios yourself. I have a couple that I would like to get mechanically restored, but I can't afford those kinds of prices (at least not with some of the items which have been released in O in the past few years). 

I love it all, especially used Postwar Lionel and modern MTH Railking and LC+.

When it comes to "used stuff," IMO you can't go wrong with the used Postwar Lionel trains of the early 1950s that are in good operating order. They are outstanding when it comes to durability, reliability, user friendliness, availability of parts and fixability, and affordability. Arnold 

Since I got into 3R O, I've bought mostly used and a little new from online retailers, hobby shops and forum members. I'm happy with everything, except for two controllers (both MTH Z-100 and Lionel CW80) bought new from different sources that died with barely any use. On the whole, pretty good experiences. I haven't bought anything through that auction site for years, as everything is so "RARE!!!" and ridiculously expensive for a Canuck like me.

I've bought new and used. I've only had one bad experience buying used. Recently my focus has strictly on postwar Lionel. I have found one seller on eBay that I've had great experience with and now will look to him when planning future purchases. His engines are well maintained and he stands by them. 

I haven't had the "holy &+$#!" moment yet with my buys from eBay. I have heard some issues with some sellers but I haven't found any that have given me issues. One thing I did learn, read. I asked a dumb question back to the seller about there being no manual, the seller pointed out that it said "no manual with engine". That is minor and not a big deal. I apologized for not seeing that but was still very happy with my purchase. Since that 3rd buy I have always read everything in great detail as well as some reviews.

There’s so much stuff out there buying used is the smart thing to do but, somebody is certainly buying new. 

Used trains can be better than new in cases where the used train was tested and all functions worked, whereas a New old stock (NOS) train that is out of warranty can be a disaster and costly to get running. I purchased a Legacy K4 steamer - brand new but out warranty from an authorized Lionel dealer (but not an authorized repair shop), and it was a mess, a terrible experience that involved multiple trips to my local repair man. Whereas I bought a used Premier Reading PS3 steamer where the original owner lubricated and primed the smoke unit correctly, and generally took very good care of it. The main consideration in buying used engines, is just like used autos, how was it treated and serviced (if at all) by the original owner.

In my opinion the general rule is "buy what you can fix, and expect what you buy used to need repairs". Can you fix circuit boards and/or diagnose what needs replacing on modern locomotives? If yes then buy that used train, you can fix it if necessary and save some money over new. Only feel comfortable twirling a screwdriver? Buy prewar/postwar/MPC trains and fix them if necessary. 

Buying a used item you can't inspect in person over the internet is a crap shoot, plan accordingly. You can get great deals in the used market, just be prepared for some clunkers along the way.   

At this point, purchasing an old train isn't much different than purchasing a new train. Oddly, parts availability on used trains may be better than on new...

Most of my current collection is new. I've had one case of cosmetic damage that wasn't mentioned but you could see it in the pictures when I went back to look (ebay). No big deal. It was bent stairs on the front of a steam switcher. I just fixed them in a vise. I was getting it for pennies compared to new. 

The two cases of malfunction was the same engine. It had no sounds but it was supposed to have them. Turned out the wire had come unsoldered from the speaker. Put it back on, now it makes a ruckus. I love it! Then I tackled the reason it didn't smoke. Turned out that the smoke unit was missing in action. I would have demanded a refund but the price was cheap enough that I can buy a new smoke unit and still be ahead of the price of new. 

Beyond that, I have had nothing but positive experiences; including a guy that messaged me afterwards on ebay to check if everything arrived as I expected. I'll be glad when I can afford to buy new but used has been a great way for me to get engines I want. 

I bought a used Atlas F3 a few years ago, seller said it didn’t run. It was nothing more than a broken wire, think I paid under $200 for it.

@Mike Wyatt posted:

 ....But I will NEVER buy a truly used one where the seller has NOT tested it, such as from an online antique dealer or estate seller who knows nothing about trains.  Words like "looks like new, but I have not tested it" and I move on.  A new one in the box from such a dealer is probably worth the chance, but only if the price is right."

Exactly what I was talking about:  A Lionel GP-9 6-18567 was listed on e-bay, at a very good price.  The listing said only that it was used, and then (all caps) BOX-MISSING-FLAP.  The standard e-bay explanation of "used".  Nothing else.  Except that used items cannot be returned, and are not tested. 

I sent TWO e-mails to the seller, asking a simple set of questions: does it run? and do all TMCC features work?  Never got an answer either time.   Without that information, I had to assume that it did not run and that the TMCC features did not work- so no bid from me. 

It sold for just over $100.  Testing and better information likely would have gotten a far higher price (and certainly a bid from me). 

Sellers, you will make more money if you ARE thorough and if you simply test items on a 30" piece of track with a transformer.  Otherwise what you sell are basically "parts" locomotives.

Until I get my layout operational, I'm only shopping for locomotives. I have a limited road name and era interest so I don't see much out there. When I do, the seller always wants too much. For example, for an 8 year old locomotive, I'm only willing to pay 50% of MSRP of an equivalent of today. But, the seller wanted significantly more than that.

Oman, I used to go by the 50% rule. Then there was some shift in the market that I can't explain and over time I was no longer able to get good deals at 50%. When I got 50%, the item was in poor shape. I think this may have been because the price of NEW stuff went up, so it drove up the value of used stuff.  I dunno. Now when I buy (rarely), I just evaluate each situation on its' own merits.

Don

Greetings Forum, in most cases buying on eBay is a good thing.....I myself have found that if you can’t fix it yourself I usually don’t buy it.....I do not have the luxury of spending $$ on train repairs .......I fix what I own.......or exchange info with this great group of people into how to repair......the price repair shops want to fix things is quite simply an expense I want nothing to do with....because as we all are aware our trains break down again .......this is a great forum filled with people wanting to help fellow train enthusiasts in answering questions and keeping the hands of time moving along.....Choo Choo......👍👍

I find it interesting that just because an engine is NIB and was never taken out of the box commands a reasonably higher price than one that has been slightly used.  With the number of issues we have had with purchases of new engines, there is no guarantee that the engine sitting in that box untouched does not have issues.  And, now the warranty period has expired.  What's to say that that ten-year-old engine that has never been run is not DOA or the victim of zinc pest?  That's why I suggest to not worry about resale value and just play with the **** thing!

At this point, I only buy used. The last new locomotive I purchased was from Lionel and had to be pre-ordered.  It arrived in the wrong color scheme and took months until they corrected the issue.  I paid full price for it but now see the same model on Ebay either "new" in box or gently used for about 75% of what I paid.  I have more trains than I need and have actually been reducing my 40 year collection for a couple of years now.  I think there are a lot of us in that boat?  Who needs 80 locomotives when you only have a 2 loop pike?  With Mike's departing the scene, I can see a huge price reduction on all the unsold dealer inventory when he closes his doors. Who really wants to pay $85 for ONE new Lionel or Atlas freight car when you can get four of them used in great condition on Ebay for the same price? 

If any seller says "not tested" about an item, forget about it. Move on.