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Hi again.


So, I was browsing the web, and found a WBB 20825 powered B unit for sale. (The word "dummy" was crossed out on the box and "powered" written in its place.)
I have a set of Williams F3 PRR As, model # "F72009" in the 2000 catalogue.  Can I hook this B unit up to the A unit that I have, such that the reverser controls the powered B unit?  I don't really want a powered B unit that cannot be connected to the reversing board in the lead A unit, and wanted to ask your advice before spending money.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thank you!

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Yes. In fact, it's simple in theory and not too fussy in execution.

You will need a tether, at least a 2-wire one. (A 4-wire would allow you to also pick up AC from the track from the dummy and send it forward to your A-unit.)

Disconnect the rev unit in the B, if there is one. Just leave it in place. Locate the wires from the rev unit in the A unit that feed DC to the motors. Add a tether wire to each DC wire out of the rev unit, and do the same thing on the "in" motor wires in the B unit. Connect the tether between the unit and take off.

You are simply adding 2 more motors to the A unit reverser's output. Now - 4 motors instead of 2 will draw more power (amps) from the reversing unit in the A. Monitor the rev unit during use to see if it is getting hot. It probably won't unless you are trying to pull a very large train.  Rev units come in different capacities.

It's almost that simple - but get very familiar with your equipment, trace the wires, get comfortable, before you snip or hook-up anything.

I did not know that Williams or WBB made a powered 'B'.  If it is not factory, how do you know how they did it and what the connections are?

I had been considering this item: https://cabinfeverauctions.bid...ctions/60148/4837720
https://wavebid-prod.s3.amazon...00_CENTER_FFFFFF.JPG
https://wavebid-prod.s3.amazon...00_CENTER_FFFFFF.JPG

I do not know if this has its own E unit, but I do know that the K-line powered-B units were tethered via a cable to the lead engine.

I thought Williams used mostly electronic e-units that always started in the fwd direction.  When multiple units got out of sync, you could just turn the power off and wait 5 seconds for the e-unit to reset and the engines would be back in sync.  You just reversed the wires on the second "A" unit to insure it started in "reverse" after reset. 

Is this incorrect?

Did the Williams Kit contain an e-unit along with the two motor/trucks?

Yup.

Be aware that the Williams F7 and the Williams F3 take different kits. The F3 roof is lower than the F7 roof, so Williams made flywheels that were less tall, but larger diameter, like a pizza. The flywheels on the F7 kits are the same diameter as the motor and look like everyone else's flywheels.

Last edited by RoyBoy
@aussteve posted:

I thought Williams used mostly electronic e-units that always started in the fwd direction.  When multiple units got out of sync, you could just turn the power off and wait 5 seconds for the e-unit to reset and the engines would be back in sync.

My understanding is that the crown edition of Williams engines did things differently than the late 90s/2000s editions.  My Williams engine has a cutout for a switch in the undercarriage, but there is no switch.  I think WBB added switches that reset after 10 or so minutes?  I could be--and probably am--wrong.

I have far more experience with K-line engines, and on those--again, if I recall aright--they either do not reset, or reset after 20-30 minutes.  I seem to recall last spring I left my S-2 locked in reverse overnight, and it was still in reverse the next day.

@RoyBoy posted:

Actually, the front motor was marked with a red sticker on the flywheel, so if you installed the kit correctly, the loco would start the way you wanted it to. No re-wiring required.

To make sure I have understood correctly, the front of the kit (marked in red) would face the front of the train, even if this means it is oriented --in the trailing/rear-facing A unit of an AA set--to face the rear of the chassis that it rides upon?
In other words, the front of the kit faces the back of the leading A unit, and doesn't care about the orientation of the cab that it is inside?

Did this kit fit inside an A unit, or just B units?

Thank you!

@Micro posted:

To make sure I have understood correctly, the front of the kit (marked in red) would face the front of the train, even if this means it is oriented --in the trailing/rear-facing A unit of an AA set--to face the rear of the chassis that it rides upon?
In other words, the front of the kit faces the back of the leading  A unit, and doesn't care about the orientation of the cab that it is inside?

Did this kit fit inside an A unit, or just B units?

Thank you!

It looks like you are contradicting yourself. Read the sentence you wrote that starts "in other words" carefully and don't over think it.

The front of the kit faces the front of the LEADING A unit and faces the rear of the TRAILING A unit.

The front of the kit faces the front of the train, as you said, regardless of which way the cab points.

The kits fit A or B units.

The F7 kit also fits GP7 and GP9 Geeps, too.

Last edited by RoyBoy
@RoyBoy posted:

It looks like you are contradicting yourself. Read the sentence you wrote that starts "in other words" carefully and don't over think it.

The front of the kit faces the front of the LEADING A unit and faces the rear of the TRAILING A unit.

The front of the kit faces the front of the train, as you said, regardless of which way the cab points.

The kits fit A or B units.

The F7 kit also fits GP7 and GP9 Geeps, too.

Ah, yes, I see my error (besides overthinking) now.  Thank you.

Thank you also for clearing that up for me--I appreciate it!

Thanks also, for the information regarding what units the kit fits.

Williams called them dummy upgrade kit.

It seems as if the kits are no longer made, as far as I can tell. They started out on eBay at around $75 and stayed there for a few years. Then they jumped to around $150 for a while. Then they jumped to around $225! Yikes!

Then the sellers started to put the wrong pictures with the kits and that caused a lot of confusion, as there are several types of kits. Going from memory, here are some of the types:

-four wheel low profile flywheel = F3

-four wheel standard flywheel = F7, GP 7/9, Baldwin sharks, ALCo FA and FB, and some modern types of locos

-six wheel center wheel blind = E7, EP5, ALCo PA & PB maybe others

-six wheel rear wheel blind = other six wheel modern loco types

I don't run any locos with prototypes newer than 1952, so I do not know the designations for SD, AC, Mac and other types of diesels.

I hope this helps



-

Last edited by RoyBoy

BTW, if you want an F7 dummy upgrade kit for cheap, buy the BLUE Chuggington locomotive. Just trains and some other major dealers have them on sale for around $70- $80 and they seem to have the same motor blocks as F7, Geep, Alco FA and FB, Baldwin Sharks and the like.

If you need an F3 kit, the RED Chuggington has extremely small flywheels and might fit the F3.

Last edited by RoyBoy

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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
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