DCS won't detect engines but adds a "phantom" engine instead

That's either a dead or very low battery in the engine, or I believe in this case, very poor track signal.

Did you get a new lighted car or caboose? Anything on the track with TMCC? 

Nothing new.  I have a PS3 engine and a PS2 engine on the track.  I run my trains often and they have good batteries in them (I believe the PS3 doesn't use batteries like the PS2 engines).  The engines work fine, the DCS control seenms to be the problem here.  No TMCC engines on those tracks either.

What do you get when you can run a track signal strength test with the remote and an engine?

Try hooking the TIU to a short piece of track just to add the engine to.

If maybe the remote could have been dropped or jarred, try tethering it to the TIU with a 4 wire cord for this add.

The remote will slow down when it's struggling to talk to or get info back from an engine. Remember that DCS is a 2 way communication. So engines respond back to the remote to confirm the commands were received.

A few things to consider...

Adding an engine with all MTC soft keys is an indication of very low DCS signal strength. Typically, any engine so aded isn't really there and cannot be run.

If you do a READ, does the remote find the TIU?

If you put power to the tracks with DCS engines on them do the engines stay dark and silent or do they come up in conventional mode?

As I understand it, you have 2 locos still working fine,  You didn't give a loco model number, but MTC software keys means that the sound file is a test file.  Download the sound file for your loco from the MTH site and load it to the loco.  See if that makes a difference.  If not, I email GGG and ask for his views.  He, like you, is in the SE portion of our beautiful state.

After hitting the red button, remotes and entire layout must be shut down to reset it.

You post seems to say that you've also had a power issue.

Check the tiu and make sure no wires have come loose, especially on a black terminal

Robert,

but MTC software keys means that the sound file is a test file.

That only happens with a brand new board. This is a previously running engine. This isn't likely to be a sound file issue.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

A few things to consider...

Adding an engine with all MTC soft keys is an indication of very low DCS signal strength. Typically, any engine so aded isn't really there and cannot be run.

If you do a READ, does the remote find the TIU?

If you put power to the tracks with DCS engines on them do the engines stay dark and silent or do they come up in conventional mode?

The read did find the TIU and I can control the voltage with the remote as normal.  I have powered up one of the tracks conventionally and the engines powered up as well.  They were making the usual idling sounds, cab chatter, smoke and everything you would normally expect.

Can you tell me what could be affecting the DCS signal strength?  One of the engines I was trying to add is sitting right next to the transformers and the TIUs and the handheld unit was about a foot away.  The track should be fairly clean as I went over it last week.  Layout is 8 X 20 so the track run isn't extremely long.

I'm thinking about putting up a separate test track and connecting to it to see what happens but I reall don't think my track wiring would be a problem as it has been reliable for several years with no changes.

Thanks for responding.  It's only been a day and a half but I miss running them!

If something happened to garble the existing sound file, it's possible.  Note you used "likely."  I've never had a board revert to MTC.

I have seen the results.

It happens when the signal is low. please answer what Barry is asking.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Robert,

but MTC software keys means that the sound file is a test file.

That only happens with a brand new board. This is a previously running engine. This isn't likely to be a sound file issue.

I have started two of the three engines on a conventional track and the sounds are normal.

RJR posted:

As I understand it, you have 2 locos still working fine,  You didn't give a loco model number, but MTC software keys means that the sound file is a test file.  Download the sound file for your loco from the MTH site and load it to the loco.  See if that makes a difference.  If not, I email GGG and ask for his views.  He, like you, is in the SE portion of our beautiful state.

After hitting the red button, remotes and entire layout must be shut down to reset it.

You post seems to say that you've also had a power issue.

Check the tiu and make sure no wires have come loose, especially on a black terminal

I wonder if GGG lives near Newport News.  I would love to have an O gauge friend in town.

VArodder,  A "sound file" in on board a loco.  It is not only sounds, but the entire operating software.  A corrupt file in one loco shouldn't affect any other loco.

RJR posted:

VArodder,  A "sound file" in on board a loco.  It is not only sounds, but the entire operating software.  A corrupt file in one loco shouldn't affect any other loco.

That makes sense. Since none of them respond I suspect the problem is with DCS. I have two TIUs and two remotes so I would think at least one combination would work. I’m setting up a separate test track today to see what happens. 

Did you just upgrade the TIUs and remotes to the new DCS 6.1 version?

VARODDER, did you somehow loose super mode between your TIU's?  If I forget to power down (aux. and fixed 1) on my layout TIU, when I am adding an engine to the remote in my work shop with my test track TIU, I will get the MTC soft keys.  Both TIU's are set to address 1.  I tried setting one of the TIU's to address 2, but still had issues if both were powered up when I was running the layout. So I just have to make sure only one TIU is powered up at a time.        When I see the MTC softkeys I know immediately I left the layout TIU powered up. So I shut it down and delete the added address that gave the MTC soft keys, from the remote, before trying to add the engine again. It then adds correctly. 

Engineer-Joe posted:

Did you just upgrade the TIUs and remotes to the new DCS 6.1 version?

No.  Both are running 4.2 as they always have.  I don't have all the cables needed to upgrade and I'm not interested in using my phone to run the trains.  Going to set up a test loop separate from the layout.  Probably revert back to conventional on the layout for a while as these problems take away from my enjoyment of the hobby.

Dave Zucal posted:

VARODDER, did you somehow loose super mode between your TIU's?  If I forget to power down (aux. and fixed 1) on my layout TIU, when I am adding an engine to the remote in my work shop with my test track TIU, I will get the MTC soft keys.  Both TIU's are set to address 1.  I tried setting one of the TIU's to address 2, but still had issues if both were powered up when I was running the layout. So I just have to make sure only one TIU is powered up at a time.        When I see the MTC softkeys I know immediately I left the layout TIU powered up. So I shut it down and delete the added address that gave the MTC soft keys, from the remote, before trying to add the engine again. It then adds correctly. 

I don't think so.  I didn't change anything about the way I power up or down, no wiring changes, no new equipment.  It just started to malfunction.  I have everything on my layout powered from a power strip and everything powers up and down at the same time except the tracks.  I bring up the Z 4000 after the power is on to avoid having the breaker light come on.

Feel your TIU post and see if any have worked loose internally. You may have to tighten the nuts internally. If you do, when you get the time, add star washers to the post. Also push down on the small transceiver boards in both with the short wire antenna and add a piece of foam to help hold them down. You may have already taken these steps cause it sounds like your up on things.

I have powered up one of the tracks conventionally and the engines powered up as well.  They were making the usual idling sounds, cab chatter, smoke and everything you would normally expect.

I need to know if your DCS engines powered up by themselves when power is applied via a TIU channel with the DCS signal turned on. If they do, there's a problem with either the TIU itself, or the layout wiring or tracks.

This would also occur if you inadvertently reversed the wires between the TIU Chanel output and the tracks. The TIU's RED channel output must connect to the center rail and the BLACK channel output to an outside rail. Reversing them would cause DCS engines to power on by themselves when track power is turned on, and be unable to be run from DCS.

Can you tell me what could be affecting the DCS signal strength?  One of the engines I was trying to add is sitting right next to the transformers and the TIUs and the handheld unit was about a foot away.  The track should be fairly clean as I went over it last week.  Layout is 8 X 20 so the track run isn't extremely long.

There are many things that can cause a DCS signal to degrade, however, engine proximity to the transformer has nothing to do with it at all.

Connect (tether) the TIU'sRemote Input port to the base of the remote with a curly,4-conductor, telephone handset cable and see if things improve.

I'm thinking about putting up a separate test track and connecting to it to see what happens but I reall don't think my track wiring would be a problem as it has been reliable for several years with no changes.

Your track wiring is, at present, one of the "usual suspects" for this kind of problem. A tests track is highly recommended.

This and a whole lot more about DCS is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Robert,

If something happened to garble the existing sound file, it's possible.  Note you used "likely."  I've never had a board revert to MTC.

I used "likely" to be polite.  In this instance, it's a just about impossible.

Here's the fix..... Use a small programming track(test) or equivalent  to add engines with no other engines on the layout receiving power.

We have 4 tiu in super and would never dream of adding engines with out a programming track...  Fake engines add, previously added engines add again now with a different ID......Yes theMTC thing...

Gregg,

Here's the fix..... Use a small programming track(test) or equivalent  to add engines with no other engines on the layout receiving power.

I'm not at all disputing this sound practice, however, it;'s not a solution to his problem which, BTW, is still ill-defined.

 With 18 volts on the track I try to add mth engines but the remote doesn't find any to add!  It then adds an engine with an arbritrary number as its name with "MTC" across the bottom where the softkey functions usually show up.  I have several friends bringing grandchildren over soon to see the trains!  If I can't solve this I'm going to have to go back to conventional operation (which I would rather not).  I can't afford to replace my DCS equipment right now either.  The remote also responds very slowly to the buttons, again it has brand new batteries!  I borrowed a friends hand held controller and I can't get it to work either.  No changes have been made to the wiring as it always worked fine before.

Did you do a track signal test on this channel??

First, thanks to everyone for responding.  I have learned a few things and I appreciate the sharing of knowledge.

I set up a loop of track completely separate from my layout this morning.  Hooked up one of the TIUs and did a read and found it.  I did a factory reset of it as well as a reset of the hand held.  I then brought everything back up, did a read, and found the TIU.  Set up variable one and was able to power it up with the hand held.  Put one of my PS2 engines on it and was able to add it to the hand held.  Everything worked fine.  I then powered down and connected variable two to the track and powered it up.  Again everything worked fine and the engine responded as you would expect.

I took the TIU and put it back on my layout, reconnected the input and output wires as normal and powered it up.  This time everything worked.  I was able to re-add the engines that were sitting on the layout and everything worked as it should.

This afternoon I hope to repeat this process with my other TIU except I will rename it to TIU 2 after I get it talking to my track loop.  I hope to reinstall it on my layout, establish both TIUs as "super" again so I can swap my engines around on the various tracks they control as I was able to do before.

I still don't understand what caused this in the first place but I am happy that I am making progress in getting things back to normal.

Again, thanks for everyone's input.  I find this forum to be both helpful and entertaining and this plus some of the Facebook train groups give one a sense of community in what is often a solitary hobby.

Colin Pratt