Follow Up Questions on WBB TMCC Conversion

Hi Scott,

            A set of instrument screwdrivers and a multimeter will come in handy.

I have always grounded myself to a water or central heating pipe just by touching it before I start handling the boards. However you can pick up an ESD strap pretty cheaply.

Got to be cheaper than having to buy a new board.

The GG-1 has to be the easiest to start with as you don't have the added complication of a tether between  the engine and tender.

I have just completed my second ERR TMCC conversion on a Williams Scale GG-1 the sounds are very good and the Cruise control is great.

Nick

Only common tools are required, as well as a decent soldering iron.  In EST strap is always a good idea working on electronics, and in the dry winter weather it gets even more important.

I'd start with the GG-1 as that will be the easiest one.  Steamers take a little more effort, you have to deal with a tether between the tender and locomotive, you also have to install a chuff switch.  Some of the hardest parts are the mechanical issues.  The basic wiring is pretty simple for the most part.  The larger the steamer, the easier it gets, you'll have more room for the components.

You don't typically knock a hole for the speaker, but rather you drill swiss cheese patterns for the sound and mount it above.  Many times, there will already be a speaker and you can use the same position.

You can download the installation instructions from The Electric RailRoad and evaluate what you'll need.

I've installed dozens of ERR boards in everything from large scale steamers to RMT BEEP locomotives, not to mention many operating cars as well.

Thanks for the experience-based advice and tips.  I think I'll start with the GG-1 and then move onto the steamers later.  Looking forward to doing this in January and February after the rush-rush of the holiday season.

Take your time with the first couple and it'll go smoothly.   I spend most of my time doing customization of lighting, smoke, adding people to the cab, etc.  For the Williams scale GG-1 that I did, I ended up building a little cab with lighting and figures, directional lighting and markers, etc.

I think you will find doing the mechanical work will take more time than hooking up the wires. Drilling the holes for the board mounts, program/run switch, maybe the speaker if you have to move its location. I try to make it look factory so that means a rectangular hole for the switches rather than a big round hole but that is optional.

Pete

If the engine does not have a hole for the program/run switch I program the engine with the body off and set the switch to run and tape it down. 

Having done many of these conversions, including 2 WBB Ten-Wheelers (so low-geared you can do without cruise control), and a Wms 027 Hudson, let me interject something:

1 - the tether on most steamers already exists, so there is really nothing to "deal with" for

basic functions. (Headlight, smoke unit and front remote coupler control, if desired, will indeed require a more-than-4-wire tether, if the electronics are placed in the tender, which is almost universal).

2 - the WBB 027 Hudson has no tether at all.

3 - the WBB 4-6-0 (and WBB 027 Hudson, I believe) has a wonderful plastic tender, which means that the antenna installation is just as simple as that on a plastic-bodied diesel - no shell/frame isolation issues.

4 - which brings us to the metal-bodied GG-1; the body must be isolated from the frame

for the antenna to work. Not hard, but it must be done. Usually simple; sometimes maddening.

5 - I usually use the speaker that came in the loco, if any. Just leave it where it is,

if possible, and plug it into the new board. I've never noticed much difference, if any, in the sound.

6 - in any case, tackle it; it gets easier. After a while, you can throw a plain DC Commander without sound in a simple diesel (WBB; early MTH/Weaver/Lionel) in 45 minutes for 60 bucks. (This could apply to the WBB 4-6-0, also)

Another way to tackle the antenna issue on a GG1 is used the pantographs as antennas. If you measure the pin on the pantograph that fits into the teflon bushing in the center you will find there is brass tubing with the same ID dimension. Cut a piece of the tubing long enough to fit though the bushing plus another 3/16" or so. Drill the bushing to fit the tubing. Solder about 6" or more of wire to the bottom of the tube and push it up from the underside until its flush with the top of the bushing.

You can still take the pantographs off to transport the engine if need be. Do this for both pantographs much like using both handrails on a steam engine.

Pete

OK, couple of follow up questions to the contributors.

1.  Is cruise the capability that allows for lower speed operation? 

2.  Can cruise be added to engines that already have TMCC without ripping out and replacing what the engine came with?

3.  I had a junior Berk upgraded from RS2.5 to TMCC with RS4.0 by TAS, probably about 10 years ago.  I noticed they put black electrical tape around the base of the tender.  While replacing the tender's battery yesterday, I removed the tape figuring it was probably there from when they worked on it.  D500's comment above makes me wonder if it was there to separate the body from the frame as he suggests on the GG-1.

4.  I picked up another Lionel Junior Berk with TMCC and RS.  I rarely run this engine and have thought about selling it but figure LionChief Plus is going to really going to put a ceiling on resale value of traditional-sized TMCC equipment. 

Would it be feasible to put this engine's TMCC/RS electronics into one of my Williams/WBB engines and put the electronic E-unit and TB whistle into the Lionel?  That would save me $150-$200.

1- yes

2- yes - Cruise M

3-yes - put the tape back

4-no

I disagree with #4 Roy, I have used existing Lionel TMCC packages a number of times for upgrades.  It's really not that difficult, though you don't have the "cookbook" instruction manual, so it's more for someone that has a few of these under their belt.

I use Kapton tape for insulating the tender shell for my upgrades, it's much thinner than electrical tape and makes it easier to put the shell back on without binding.

As far as the tether being there, I rarely do a conversion where I don't want command controlled lights and smoke at a minimum, so a 4-pin tether doesn't do it for me.