Has anyone found a solution to MTH steamers & Gargraves turnouts ?

Some MTH steamers have issue on a few Gargraves turnouts---both of my 2-8-0s derail on two different switches as the lead wheels "bounce" up traveling through.  I was able to grind down the top of the ties and that fixed the issue---don't know why on only a few switches.  All of my Gargraves are O-100 and new.

Budget?  Buy Ross first!  That way when you begin to experience more issues you won't buy a Ross to replace a Gargraves as has been done many times before.  Save money!  Buy Ross first!

I run scale locos,Lionel and MTH on Ross Switches and have had good results.

Mikey

I have used both. Earlier design Gargraves sometimes could be troublesome for derailments with some locos. Usually a little bending and filing of the points would correct these issues. I don't have any experience with the latest Gargraves design which uses cast points. I suspect these are an improvement over earlier designs that I have used.

My latest layout uses Ross turnouts and equipment rolls through these very smoothly. I did have some ground continuity issue with some MTH diesels . Jumpering the unpowered common rail cured that issue.

Thank you to the guys that have given me some answers !  

Have a great Train week !

ROSS turnouts.  The only way to fly with Gargraves.  Only "problem" is the track is slightly lower than the switch so one should make sure the ramp-up, slight as it is, happens far enough out to have level track approaching the switch 6-8" before the switch.  Large locomotives should "level out" before hitting the turnout.

Hi Kerrigan  , thanks for that info !  what did you do to solve that issue ?

Thanks 

I have 40  turnouts,2 of which are gargraves. I've had to file the wheel guides at the frogs of the gargraves to allow clear passage of 6 wheel trucks especially 

Kerrigan posted:

ROSS turnouts.  The only way to fly with Gargraves.  Only "problem" is the track is slightly lower than the switch so one should make sure the ramp-up, slight as it is, happens far enough out to have level track approaching the switch 6-8" before the switch.  Large locomotives should "level out" before hitting the turnout.

Are you talking about Lionel O gauge tubular track with Gargraves or Ross switches? If so that will happen unless you have three feet(36 inches) of Gargraves track before and after the switch, I have an MTH 4-8-4 steam engine so it needs more track space. If you have the Gargraves or Ross switch directly next to Lionel O gauge track with only adapter pins the engine or train may jump the track due to variances in track height.

Or you can go all Gargraves or Ross conventional track with Ross switches and not worry about the height issue. Gargraves and Ross track are very similar except for the curve sizes or Ross's new custom O gauge track & switches. Ross's new O gauge track and switches are a bit different then the older Ross conventional track and switches in O gauge track, as Ross now has a new switch that mates directly to Lionel's tubular track in O gauge. Ross might have some new O gauge track as well, so check out their website.

Lee Fritz

Never had any trouble with GG switches and a particular brand of loco. My GG switches are old - 20 - 25 years. I have had to fiddle with a loco and switches here and there, but no brand has been predominant.

With one exception: MTH Railking 2-wheel leading trucks like to derail (GG or not) on switches because the pivot slot is too big and allows the truck to swing on both ends. It wallows and goes off in the weeds. I epoxy a washer over the slot, making the hole smaller. Problem solved.  

I have a feeling that GG is not the issue; it's MTH. Easy fix.

D500 posted:

Never had any trouble with GG switches and a particular brand of loco. My GG switches are old - 20 - 25 years. I have had to fiddle with a loco and switches here and there, but no brand has been predominant.

With one exception: MTH Railking 2-wheel leading trucks like to derail (GG or not) on switches because the pivot slot is too big and allows the truck to swing on both ends. It wallows and goes off in the weeds. I epoxy a washer over the slot, making the hole smaller. Problem solved.  

I have a feeling that GG is not the issue; it's MTH. Easy fix.

The older Gargraves switches(over 15 years ago) may work better then the newer Gargraves switches. When I mention newer I mean Gargraves switches made within the last 7 or 8 years. 

It might be just me but I feel that the newer Gargraves switches(made within the last 8 to 10 years) don't have the quality of the older Gargraves switches(made over 15 years ago). The newer Gargraves switches wear out faster, the switch points give out or where the small rivets are at can break off somehow.

Lee Fritz

I use  newer GG O-54 switches.  My three MTH Railking engines (PRR M1a, PRR L1, NYC L3) all  navigate them without problem.  No modifications to engines or track required.  

WRGMILW posted:

Hi Kerrigan  , thanks for that info !  what did you do to solve that issue ?

Thanks 

I slowly ramp up the track starting about 10" before the turnout so the last portion of the track just prior to the switch is flat to the switch at least the length of the wheelbase of the drivers on the largest which would be the Z-8 at this point.  For the diesels it isn't that critical, but it's really nice to have them enter the turnout flat with it.

phillyreading posted:

D500 posted:

Never had any trouble with GG switches and a particular brand of loco. My GG switches are old - 20 - 25 years. I have had to fiddle with a loco and switches here and there, but no brand has been predominant.

With one exception: MTH Railking 2-wheel leading trucks like to derail (GG or not) on switches because the pivot slot is too big and allows the truck to swing on both ends. It wallows and goes off in the weeds. I epoxy a washer over the slot, making the hole smaller. Problem solved.  

I have a feeling that GG is not the issue; it's MTH. Easy fix.

The older Gargraves switches(over 15 years ago) may work better then the newer Gargraves switches. When I mention newer I mean Gargraves switches made within the last 7 or 8 years. 

It might be just me but I feel that the newer Gargraves switches(made within the last 8 to 10 years) don't have the quality of the older Gargraves switches(made over 15 years ago). The newer Gargraves switches wear out faster, the switch points give out or where the small rivets are at can break off somehow.

Lee Fritz

We initially purchased a couple of cases of Gargraves switches when first starting our layout.  When ROSS turnouts hit the scene in force we looked at the two side-by-side and had a clearance sale of a couple of cases of Gargraves turnouts :-)

Kerrigan,

Sorry to hear that you replaced all those Gargraves switches, it must have cost a bit to replace them with Ross switches. I happen to like Ross switches much better then Gargraves and may buy about 5 to 7 new Ross switches to replace all my Gargraves switches still on the layout, will wait until the summer to work on my train layout some more.

Lee Fritz

phillyreading posted:

Kerrigan,

Sorry to hear that you replaced all those Gargraves switches, it must have cost a bit to replace them with Ross switches. I happen to like Ross switches much better then Gargraves and may buy about 5 to 7 new Ross switches to replace all my Gargraves switches still on the layout, will wait until the summer to work on my train layout some more.

Lee Fritz

Actually we made the switch to ROSS before installing the Gargraves, so they were "NIB" when sold off.  Early Gargraves switches they were.  Plastic guard rails had a bad habit of breaking.  Prefer the ROSS over the others.

Kerrigan posted:

phillyreading posted:

Kerrigan,

Sorry to hear that you replaced all those Gargraves switches, it must have cost a bit to replace them with Ross switches. I happen to like Ross switches much better then Gargraves and may buy about 5 to 7 new Ross switches to replace all my Gargraves switches still on the layout, will wait until the summer to work on my train layout some more.

Lee Fritz

Actually we made the switch to ROSS before installing the Gargraves, so they were "NIB" when sold off.  Early Gargraves switches they were.  Plastic guard rails had a bad habit of breaking.  Prefer the ROSS over the others.

Glad to hear that the Gargraves switches were sold new in box, probably got more for them being in the box. I used to like Gargraves switches a bit before finding out about Ross Custom switches. 

With Ross switches I have less clearance issues, if any, when using MTH engines. Also Ross has all steel rails and not a plastic rail(a Gargraves thing on 031 & 042 switches) coming out of the switched area, so no dead rail areas with Ross switches. Also now I can afford to buy Ross Custom switches.

Lee Fritz