Is anyone interested in GGD undec F-7 units?

Wes,

I talked to several WM modelers in the past and told them that Sunset would do WM F units if they received orders for 20 units.  Never heard back from anyone. My e-mail is included on Ray Grant's Friday night list.

Find some with the same features as WM and repaint them.

Simon

I asked Scott about this at one point and he said something to the effect of it being a possibility, but he would require full payment up front. I'm paraphrasing but that was the idea.

Bob:

We (Andy Prandoni and I)  tried to drum up some interest with the other local WM modelers.  Since they were modeling in the early 1950's they had no desire to add a bunch of dirty, smelly diesels to their roster.  Consequently, we concluded that Scott's offer may be the only practical approach.  As Jonathan mentioned, Scott wants full payment.  Given his reputation for honesty, I have no concern about paying up front.

One problem with the GN will be the headlight in the nose door. If I were you I would beat the bushes for a NYC or some other Eastern version, unless Scott is going to supply a plain door.

If you reserve 20 undecorated units I don't think it would be a problem.  Remember, 5 ABBA sets is 20 units.  Had I known that I would have stepped up for WP Green/Yellow OR Demonstrator FTs.  Live and learn.  What an undecorated unit is spec'd like (DB, headlights, pilots, etc) would need to be agreed upon at the time of reservation.

The current plan for the undecorated E8s is that they will come with an unfinished and undrilled shell (NO details installed) and most of the add on details for the various versions included but also unfinished (raw castings).   The chassis will come built with all the electronics installed, probably in primer gray.

What has me wow'd is that almost half of the folks that have reserved undecorated E8s are 3-railers so take that into your calculus.

As for the nose door, the easiest way is to replace it with a door from PD hobbies.  

rdunniii posted:

As for the nose door, the easiest way is to replace it with a door from PD hobbies.  

Maybe NOT so easy......are the doors the same size (theoretically they should be, but are  they). How do they mount. You'll be paying a fair hunk of change, my advice would be to be sure you're getting what you want.

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

rdunniii posted:

As for the nose door, the easiest way is to replace it with a door from PD hobbies.  

Maybe NOT so easy......are the doors the same size (theoretically they should be, but are  they). How do they mount. You'll be paying a fair hunk of change, my advice would be to be sure you're getting what you want.

Simon

The nose door is no size on the F7 shell, it is not a separate part.  You'll have to cut it out the same size as the replacement.

Thank you Simon.  We didn't realize that the GN units had nose door lights.  That is an important issue to discuss with Scott.

One of the problems with getting 20 Western Maryland units is that some guys want the pre-1952 paint scheme (with the fireball) and others the later scheme with wings on the nose.  About the only commonality is that both had black bodies.

Wes Morgenstern posted:

Thank you Simon.  We didn't realize that the GN units had nose door lights.  That is an important issue to discuss with Scott.

One of the problems with getting 20 Western Maryland units is that some guys want the pre-1952 paint scheme (with the fireball) and others the later scheme with wings on the nose.  About the only commonality is that both had black bodies.

Wes,     Things always seem to be complicated.

Fireball:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=1313010

Speed Lettering:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=1664102

What I call the 'Circus' scheme:

http://www.westernmarylandrhs.com/roster.php

You will want a FREIGHT style pilot, a 5 chime horn, and I DON'T think they had steam generators, which would have been on the roof at the rear of the engine.

The good news is that #236 is sitting at the B&O museum, and I suspect they could/would answer any of your questions.

I personally prefer the Fireball scheme.

Good Luck,

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

Wes Morgenstern posted:

Thank you Simon.  We didn't realize that the GN units had nose door lights.  That is an important issue to discuss with Scott.

One of the problems with getting 20 Western Maryland units is that some guys want the pre-1952 paint scheme (with the fireball) and others the later scheme with wings on the nose.  About the only commonality is that both had black bodies.

Wes,     Things always seem to be complicated.

Oh, just order 20 of both scheme; it's only your money and I'm ready to spend it for you,

mwb posted:

Oh, just order 20 of both scheme; it's only your money and I'm ready to spend it for you,

Cold Martin, way cold!

Simon Winter posted:

mwb posted:

Oh, just order 20 of both scheme; it's only your money and I'm ready to spend it for you,

Cold Martin, way cold!

Only being my usual helpful self,

I'd be interested in an undecorated F7 A unit.

Should I put in a reservation under the GN project?

Chris:

Yes.  That is what Andy and I did.

If I were modeling the WM I would put a reservation in for a black painted but unlettered version.

PRR Man posted:

I'd be interested in an undecorated F7 A unit.

Should I put in a reservation under the GN project?

 

 

Two factors:

What road name do you want to end up with? Assume WM, but you never really said that I can recall.

Are you willing to modify it to get what you want?

If the answer to question 2 is yes then go for it.

Read my earlier post to Wes up above.

I have NO agenda here, just trying to help you guys end up with what you want. I will be happy regardless of what you buy or not. I have seen some images of the Southern RR F7 and they looked very nice, especially the paint, but that obviously is not a factor.

Simon

I would model a PRR version, to mate with the Sunset FP7 I already have.

I can add the PRR-specific details that may not be on the model: trainphone antenna, lifting lugs, large number boards. However the PRR units came with all 36" rooftop fans. Not a 48" fan for the dynamic brake. How does that compare to equipment on the GN or WM?

In addition, all PRR F units, whether freight or passenger,  came with slab style pilots. Commonly known as passenger pilots.

Chris,

What you want for the 36" fan is an "F7 phase 1 Early" with NO steam generators. The as built engines had passenger pilots with coupler doors.

Do you have an off forum contact?

Simon

I've been waiting for an ABA set of Fireballs. Steam wasn't completely gone when Speed Lettering came, but it was pretty much sitting in dead lines by then. I'd rather not add another project to the list, especially when there are not that many decals sets around.

Gary

According to Western Maryland Diesels (John & Johnson) the first batch of F7s (No 53-66) were delivered in the fireball scheme and were not repainted until the mid-1950s.  It looks like the fireball scheme would work very nicely for you.

my point about the roof fans is if the GN or WM units have 36" fan for the dynamic brake, then it will be simple for me to order an undec. unit for the PRR.

hence my question whether those roads had units with 36" DB fans.

From the photographs looking down on the F-7 roofs, all Western Maryland units had only 36 inch fans.

Wes Morgenstern posted:

From the photographs looking down on the F-7 roofs, all Western Maryland units had only 36 inch fans.

OK, but aren't you guys getting unpainted engines from the GREAT NORTHERN special run??? Or are you trying to get together an order for WM? If the former, then the question should be what size were the fans on the GN's. If the latter, you are obviously good. I have no horse in the race, but I'd like to see you get what you want.

Simon

The GN F7s that GGD has already done look like they had the 36 inch fans. I think Scott should consider a second run of F7s. But I know right now he has moved on to the PA project. Plus there are still unsold units from the first run. The 48 inch fans didn't get phased in until 1952-53, near the end of F7 production, before the switch over to F9s.

Remaining as of 2 weeks ago were

1 CN F7A  single headlight no dynamic brakes

1 NP F7A double headlight don't remember whether 36" or 48" dynamic brakes

2 SP F7A  double headlights 48" dynamic brakes

1 SP F7B  48" dynamic brakes

Wouldn't it be simpler to get the CN and ask Scott for a 36" brake cover and strip and go?  He's still about 100 reservations short of a 2nd run of anything so far so it's not going to happen any time soon.

The PA project won't begin until the E8/9 project is complete which won't happen until the SD7/9 project is complete; which is just starting.