Is there a track cleaner that actually works?

AlanRail posted:

I have every type of cleaner available; I bought them all because I'm lazy and keep hoping one will actually clean the rails.

NONE work well enough!

for fun I string them all together and watch them try to clean the rails.

Sort of like watching paint dry.

 

Now that’s funny right there. Made me laugh out loud. Good stuff.

George

Lionelski posted:

RJR posted:

I used alcohol once.  Even though I had windows open to vent fumes, I woke up next day with a headache (hangover).

I don't see how a pad rolling over the dirt, rather than sliding, can really remove dirt.

One caution when using abrasives. Any fine steel dust will get on wheels if you have magnetic traction.  Also might get into bearings

 

Golly, RJR, how much alcohol did you use?

Just enough to moisten a single paper towel folded into a square of about 2 x 3 inches, probably less than a quarter of a capful, is enough for 20 or so feet of track. I use 70% rubbing alcohol - a 32 oz bottle lasts me for years and only costs about a buck.

Never had a fume issue, been doing this for decades

He was using Jack Daniels. Best alcohol there is! A capful is probably not enough, and it’s more than a buck.

George

John, as I recall, that naptha was treacherous stuff.  If memory serves me correctly, its fumes were also explosive--similar to gasoline.  Water heaters and furnaces can ignite gasoline, naptha, & alcohil fumes

alanrail:  mixing cleaners can be extremely dangerous.  Some household cleaners, when mixed, will ignite, explode or create hazardous gasses.

George, no, it wasn't Jack Daniels, but for a lot fewer dollars I had the same hangover.  Keeping the pad very wet, meant a lot of evaporation.

Unfortunately, all this chatter reminds me that there are many hundreds of feet of track in the next room that haven't been cleaned for ....[censored]..

Naphtha is flammable, but it’s not really that dangerous. I have some that I use to thin train enamel for air brushing. It evaporates quicker and is less prone to problems, but it all depends on the paint.

Try not to inhale that stuff either. Maybe get an inexpensive respirator.

George

I have one of the cars formerly produced by a company called Bridge Masters.  I believe they're still in business but no longer producing the O gauge cars.  He had a few left when I inquired and I bought one but that was a few years ago now.  It's a nice simple design with an axle at each end of a rectangular frame.  In the middle there's a floating weighted block that you can clamp a strip of a scotchbrite pad in (half of a regular sized pad as I recall).  It does take awhile, but it seems to leave a shiny railhead after a few laps.  You can always follow up with a rag and rubbing alcohol or another cleaning car with a pad soaked in something to ensure it's very clean.  I always just use it by itself though and it seems to be sufficient.

Trainz has one on their ebay page right now and I believe it's not much more than I paid for mine.

Naptha is the main ingredient in older lighter fluids (Zippo,Ronson, etc), newer Ronson/Zippo formulas seems similar enough I can't tell a difference.

It is listed in PW Lionel text as a plastic cleaner for cars/acc./etc and for cleaning motor parts too.

It is easily brought to flame, but not prone to explode. Rather the flame will want to stay close to the liquid; slow evap as mentioned, long burn time because of that too.

It will give you a headache if you don't vent heavy fumes, but light use isn't a bother imo.

I keep thinking there is an electrostatic solution to this as it seems to part of which wheels get dirty first. Sometimes it's the lead wheels that collect the most gunk, sometimes not. So I figure the track/motor/wheel connection fields are playing with the dust buildup in some near inconceivable and "redundant"(to some) way.

I also think frying food at home has an impact on how sticky dust can be in the house (most (about 90%) of house dust is old skin cells .  Kids and Old Farts leave more behind to be collected). There is also the flange to rail friction adding some slight amount of metal to the electrically charged people dust and settled airborn oils 

Post War will have a little more gunk because of brush dust, but I think carbon dust & fields are the real issue. 

 And maybe the blackness developing isn't as bad as you think (they will "never" remain 100% and a "white glove test" is unrealistic after an hour of running, even in a plastic bubble imo. (that glove is for C-9/C-10 stuff, not rolling stock used as "toys") 

Also, you have to clean wheels just as much as track, and if one is dirty and you run , now the other is dirty; dirtier than if you had cleaned everything 100% before running anything at all.  Gramps usually cleaned track and then stock before he ran them if they had sat more than a day or two. Maintenance was part of program for him; a habitual replacement after they took his Army rifle and made him walk off the planes again 😬

Track cleaning cars are for in-between the hand cleanings imo. It takes a lot of laps to make it worthwhile too.  Wet, you'll always have the residue, lack of oil on the metal(none at all = rust and more friction dust) or fumes to consider, and dry scrubs are slow and leave dust on the layout.

Vacuume more too. Put a nylon over the hose to catch small items before they are sucked into the machine; empty the nylon of dust when needed as it acts as a dust bag too. Hold the nylon firmly, it will get sucked out of a rubber band and go into the dust collector. 😲   Sometimes it will hold ok between the brush head and extension/tube too if they are rubbery enough to not slip.

The Armstrong track cleaner always works for me.

I am starting a layout with new Gargraves Track - Phantom three rail wood ties. Never used Gargraves track until now.

Do I need to be concerned that any of the above methods will take the black off the center rail? 

I have most of the track cleaning cars that were ever offered  but still don't think any of them work as well as a saturated cloth and "elbow grease".

Thank you,

Paul

Railrunnin posted:

I am starting a layout with new Gargraves Track - Phantom three rail wood ties. Never used Gargraves track until now.

Do I need to be concerned that any of the above methods will take the black off the center rail? 

I have most of the track cleaning cars that were ever offered  but still don't think any of them work as well as a saturated cloth and "elbow grease".

Thank you,

Paul

I’ve been using Gargraves since the 80s.  Solvents won’t remove the black from the center rail.  Abrasives like Scotch brite eventually will.

Good ideas posted here.

Christopher has what looks like the ideal set-up for track cleaning.

Even Lionel back in the day had their Postwar track cleaner, which has a scrubbing brush followed by a cleaning pad. I think they were on the "right track" except I don't think the cleaning fluid dispensed to the brush.

As I read what you wrote, Paul, you are saying the Lionel car was to be pushed?  I have one, and affixing the foam brush was always a problem.

Do any car have provision for keeoing the pad wet?

RJR posted:

As I read what you wrote, Paul, you are saying the Lionel car was to be pushed?  I have one, and affixing the foam brush was always a problem.

Do any car have provision for keeping the pad wet?

Theoretically, the modern Lionel one (there are a few other deco options as well, I think they've done this at least 4 different times) does have a tank that "automatically" keeps the foam scrubber wet, but it's hard to adjust it right to get a desirable flow (very easy to have all your fluid spill out too soon and be all over the layout in one area, particularly if something happens and you stop the engine that is pushing/pulling it - the fluid will of course be dispensed just the same whether the car is moving or not! ).

IMO, it was a neat idea, but the actual product is a bit too messy to use regularly (for me at least).

Deco 2.  Deco 3.  Deco 4.

-Dave

Adriatic, as to the explodability of naptha, here's a link to naptha-burning external combustion engines, which also mentions the existence of a Sumolex naptha-burning internal combustion engine

https://www.gasenginemagazine....z/the-naphtha-engine

RJR posted:

As I read what you wrote, Paul, you are saying the Lionel car was to be pushed?  I have one, and affixing the foam brush was always a problem.

Do any car have provision for keeoing the pad wet?

i have one, and the foam disk things are certainly a problem with mine, they don’t like to stay on, and they like to get caught in my switches if they do.

on a side note, has anyone ever used nevr-dull on their track? it seems like it would work really good, but i’m not sure if traction tires would like the stuff. 

Here's a home-made track cleaning car I built out of some wood scraps and spare trucks.  The main body is 1/2" x 2-1/2" oak board.  It holds a scrub sponge that I bought at the dollar store (comes two per package).  No cutting required, just press the sponge in.  The sponge can be used dry or else wet it down with some cleaner (admittedly, I haven't tried it wet, yet).  I can also set a metal plate or small brick or similar on the car if I need to weight it down a little more.

I really haven't fully tested it that well yet, since my layout isn't THAT big and can be hand-cleaned about as fast as getting this car out and ready to go.  But it might have some potential.  It could probably snag on something here or there, but perhaps whatever it manages to snag on needs filed down a little bit anyway.

Dave45681 posted:

RJR posted:

As I read what you wrote, Paul, you are saying the Lionel car was to be pushed?  I have one, and affixing the foam brush was always a problem.

Do any car have provision for keeping the pad wet?

Theoretically, the modern Lionel one (there are a few other deco options as well, I think they've done this at least 4 different times) does have a tank that "automatically" keeps the foam scrubber wet, but it's hard to adjust it right to get a desirable flow (very easy to have all your fluid spill out too soon and be all over the layout in one area, particularly if something happens and you stop the engine that is pushing/pulling it - the fluid will of course be dispensed just the same whether the car is moving or not! ).

IMO, it was a neat idea, but the actual product is a bit too messy to use regularly (for me at least).

Deco 2.  Deco 3.  Deco 4.

-Dave

 

 

I have the "Christmas" version of this one and it does a decent, not spectacular, but decent job.  The instructions do say to turn the fluid release lever to "ON" for 3 seconds and then turn it back to "OFF" before pushing or pulling around track. 

I made 2 cleaning cars from old plastic Gondolas, Drill 2 holes in the middle of the car spaced inside the wheels.  Drill the same holes in 2 thin wood plates a bit wider than the tracks. Push carriage bolts through the wood then put a good spring on the bolt, then push thru the bottom of the car and add a nut inside the car. Add car tire balance weights in the car, use enough to overcome the springs below and keep the wheels on the track.  Glue or otherwise secure a kitchen dishwashing sponge with the scrubby back facing the track to each wood pad.  Mount a magnet just above the track to one end of one car to catch metal bits falling on the track.  In front of a train or engine, Run them once a week all over the layout.  This setup worked great on my old layout and I expect it will also work on the new one in progress.

BatTrain posted:

I have the "Christmas" version of this one and it does a decent, not spectacular, but decent job.  The instructions do say to turn the fluid release lever to "ON" for 3 seconds and then turn it back to "OFF" before pushing or pulling around track. 

Hmmm....  I'm normally pretty good about reading the manuals, but maybe I goofed and didn't read thoroughly enough all those years ago(I had the first one they made).  Or maybe the manual was updated over the years?

In any event, thanks for the feedback.  Maybe I'll dig it out and try it again (and RTFM! ) sometime soon.

-Dave

@signalwoman, what is never dull? (I know one answer is the sun☺)

Here’s an ideal track cleaning car, or cars. This paper was given to me at York last October. It should be ideal for those hard to reach areas. Happy Railroading 

RJR posted:

Adriatic, as to the explodability of naptha, here's a link to naptha-burning external combustion engines, which also mentions the existence of a Sumolex naptha-burning internal combustion engine

https://www.gasenginemagazine....z/the-naphtha-engine

Pressure has a lot to do with it's use as a motor fuel.  In open air it's more like kerosene, spirits, or turpentine than gasoline.  Kerosene isn't prone to explosion from vented atmospheric evaporation either.  You couldn't breathe in the concentration needed for a kerosene boom, it would be near a spray.

Wood is quite flamible but unlikely to explode. But concentrate, heat and compress the gasses and they run motors too.

I'm not sure about oranges. (pretty flammable though)

If you're vented at all and use some common sense, you're pretty safe with naptha dampened rags (and all set to light a weekend barbeque)

Hey, how about those "french-fry" smelling motors burning cooking oil for fuel 😜

hokie71 posted:

@signalwoman, what is never dull? (I know one answer is the sun☺)

its a combination cleaner and polish for metal, and leaves behind a protective coating. i use it on my truck for the chrome, great stuff. eats trough grime and even light rust without too much trouble. it comes as a can of pre soaked wadding.

here is why none of these work well enough.  THERE IS TOO MUCH SURFACE OVER THE LENGTH OF THE RAILS AND NOT ENOUGH "clean" SURFACE ON THE CLEANING PART(S) OF THE CLEANERS.

As soon as the cleaning parts are saturated with crud they stop cleaning and you are just spreading the crud along the remaining length of the rails. What is needed is a way to vacuum or remove the crud as it builds up on the cleaning parts.  Until that is invented, your hand, a clean rag and some cleaning solution and your elbow is the only way to really clean the track rails.

I agree with AlanHN,doing it by hand is the best way as long as you can reach all areas ,i have been doing it that way for years & i also have two track cleaning cars that never really did a good job .

 A car with some kind of reel of cloth that slowly unrolls onto a take up reel would seem a solution. Thin cloth, over a saturated foam of some sort.

i have one of those expensive brass cars, but an old white sock stretched over a 1 by 4 short board works best.

And I saturate the sock with Caig Deoxit D5 contact cleaner.

Here’s an ideal track cleaning car, or cars. This paper was given to me at York last October. It should be ideal for those hard to reach areas. Happy Railroading

I have an S gauge one like this mounted in a boxcar. Don't know if it was from the same manufacturer. The pad assembly slips onto the shafts which are driven by can motors internal to the carbody. The pad assemblies tend to ride off the shafts during usage, usually on a switch. Also have a unit from Portline hobbies which has a larger central single pad driven by a can motor. Pad attachment is different as the cleaning pad attaches to the permanently attached pad assembly using the hooked side of a piece of Velcro. Works much better. The motor speed varies with track power so Legacy operation is ideal. The pad motor spins at 16V speed while the engine speed can be controlled for best cleaning operation. One pass using a Scotchbrite pad is usually all that's needed. I have seen various gauge units sold in the orange hall at York. 

Chuck

Come up with a design for a "reel track cleaning car" with a winding cleaning material that self saturates with fluid and you'll have a winner.

 Additionally, a wheel cleaning machine would be nice too.

Yes I can imagine it...wheels turning provide the turning of the reels, etc. Weight for traction, a drip like on the expensive brass one, etc. Just don't have a machine shop here or need a job . The brass cleaner car suggests cutting corduroy up for pads...maybe strips of cotton sheets. Wonder how many length feed of sheet one could reel up for a run. I kind of like the reel turned at a 45 degree angle (isn't there one like this?), because it uses up more area on the pad surface than running straight while it's reeling out the material. I guess it could also run backwards when it is out of length since it theoretically hasn't used up it's cleaning ability with one pass. Maybe just pull it in reverse.

Fun to think about...

leapinlarry posted:

Here’s an ideal track cleaning car, or cars. This paper was given to me at York last October. It should be ideal for those hard to reach areas. Happy Railroading 

A track cleaning car within a Serry testing car or a rail grinding car may work!

Something like this??

As the car moves the cleaning tape or strip rotates up into the take-up real at the top.

I can build most of the parts for this  on my 3D printer.

I wonder if part of the problem is some of us wait until the track is too dirty before we decide it needs some cleaning?

Part of my thought process is some of the comments/concepts of it making a difference if we push or pull the cleaning cars. I'd suggest if the track is dirty enough that the engine needs to push it (assuming the need is driven by poor engine performance if the track is not hit by the cleaning car first), the track is way too dirty!

Also the comments about just pushing the dirt around.  Obviously that is true no matter how much dirt may be there, but it's proportional to what you start with, I'd think (therefore less noticeable if the track is less dirty when you start).

Just a thought.

-Dave

Paul Kallus posted:

Besides our own hands doing the cleaning, is there a track cleaner that actually works? I've tried a couple of commercial track cleaners over the years and they always come down to pushing a dirty cloth or pad around after running a few feet, defeating their purpose; and as such, they've long since been sold, lost, or thrown out.

I surmise for one to be viable the criteria should be:

1. It has a cleaning pad that either rotates or self-cleans such that a clean pad is applied every 3-6 feet of track length;

2. Cleaning pads can either be washed/renewed or be made out of old tee-shirts, etc.

3. Cleaning pad has enough weight/pressure on it to lift dirt.

Has anyone found one that works?

 

Yes.  CMX or something close.  Pads change easy and passes white give test.  Expensive, but only hurts once.  Bought 3 years ago and have never looked back.

cjack posted:

This is a recommended article from a thread couple months ago about what to clean your track with.

Model Railroad Hobbyist/May 2019 

read the Publisher's Musings article...

 

If you have not read this article cjack mentions, you should. Google it , it is free! 

Given the stated criteria for a track cleaning car that would work at least as well as old-fashioned elbow grease, I am thinking it would come out to be an engineering project that would take considerable R&D and capital investment, and the street-cost per unit would likely be over $1,000. Not likely to happen.

hokie71 posted:

cjack posted:

This is a recommended article from a thread couple months ago about what to clean your track with.

Model Railroad Hobbyist/May 2019 

read the Publisher's Musings article...

 

If you have not read this article cjack mentions, you should. Google it , it is free! 

I can't seem to get that article to come up

clem k posted:

I can't seem to get that article to come up

Try this. Need to click on the "click to read this article", it's a browser similar/identical to the Lionel catalog, so I'm not sure I can link to the relevant pages.  It opens to a larger full edition of the magazine, the track clean musings start on page 9.

-Dave

Thanks Dave :   I found that. My first time on there site.

It figures the two different CRC products I have are the worst ones.  It mentions WD40 as good, I did not know there was more than one version of WD40.

I read somewhere else about the arching of wheels, only they where talking about metal versus plastic wheels,  I guess that is why I don't normally have a track cleaning problem because I run about 80% Weaver Delriin wheels.

I wonder if wheel arching is more of a problem in a 2 rail environment ?

I researched the CMX cleaning car and you are correct, Bryant, is is a bit pricey ($300).  I'd be interested in hearing more about this car from persons who own one ("Ask the man who owns one"--Packard slogan).

Way up in this thread, someone mentioned cleaning the pads on a NE Trains car.  I'd be interested in learning how the poster does this.

I have a CMX cleaning car and although pricey, I like it a lot. I bought extra pad material so I could change pads over and over until the tracks are clean. I just throw the pads in the wash to be used again later. I use 91per cent alcohol. They give you a syringe to suck the alcohol out of the bottle and squirt it into the car. The car is pretty heavy, I hope this input helps,

Don