JLC Allegheny vs. Legacy Allegheny

Good post! Lionel needs to be called out for inaccuracies on these extremely expensive scale locos. The JLC Allegheny is a really good model of the C&O's final order of these engines. As such there were differences between the early orders and the last order. When Lionel decided to make the Legacy 1601 and 1604 they should had dropped the overfire jets and made modifications to the cab to make them more like the actual engines. At the very least Lionel should have marketed an engine numbered in the 1645 to 1659 series which their existing molds would be perfect for. Since the JLC series I've pretty much given up Lionel doing any research into the actual prototypes. Just grab the existing molds and slap another paint scheme or number on it. Nobody will notice.

Making a Virginian Allegheny (or Blue Ridge as the VGN called it) requires more work. The sand boxes on the Blue Ridges were smaller than the C&O's and the tender was larger as it held more water. Only 3rd Rail made an accurate Blue Ridge and that was many years ago.

I have a JLC Allegheny and I wasn't going to spend the money for the inaccurate Legacy version. Instead I put a Cruise M in it. No I don't get whistle smoke but it runs better at slow speeds than the Odyssey control allowed. Not quite Legacy, but very good.

Ken

Hey thanks for your post!! My JLC Allegheny operates perfectly 'except' for that initial jerk at start up (Lionel could really take a lesson or two from MTH when it comes to smooth start ups.) Once I took my JLC apart (took forever!!) to clean and change batting in the smoke unit. Couldn't help but notice that some of my boiler casting had swelled a bit (reminiscent of  some of the 1937 Lionel NYC hudsons) but they are made in China, still beautiful though. Yes, all Lionel had to do was number the Legacy model 1647 or higher, you got it.  Did you get your ERR Cruise M from Sunset 3rd Rail or Roys Trainz? Just FYI, Roys Trainz carries the new Sunset 3rd Rail smoke unit which is a modified (and much improved version of the old Train America Studios smoke unit). They cost $45.00 and smoke better than anything Lionel except for Legacy or Vision Line but still a bit less than MTH.  I think I'll look into the Cruise M route, thank you for the info.

The "jerk" at startup is the infamousOdyssey Lurch, it should only happen the first time you power up the engine.  The CC-M solves that problem.

If you want to get a little closer to the Legacy unit, consider adding my Super-Chuffer II and the Chuff-Generator.  This will give you prototypical 4-chuffs/rev, synchronized chuffing smoke, smoke at idle, Rule-17 LED headlight operation, and automatic cab light control.  I do a lot of these upgrades for folks, I have four or five stacked up here now.

The standard Lionel smoke unit can be tuned to give you all the smoke you're going to get from the 3rd Rail smoke unit, and you won't have to swap out the part.  When I send them out, they rival the MTH smoke.

Do you do service through Henning's Trains?  Everything you mentioned above I'd be interested in. Can you give me a sort of estimate what it would cost and about how long it would take to do that service?  You can send this info to me at my e-mail address:  rjm1008@hotmail.com.  I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

Regards,

Ralph

I'll send you an email.

My JLC Allegheny has four chuffs per rotation and it actually smokes extremely well when it gets moving. I had changed the smoke unit resistor and it really made a difference, the Legacy Trains tech suggested this to me. Only when it is idle does it not smoke of course. But could you do this with the older JLC Y6B? This one was my father's and he loved that whistle but it chuffs only twice per rotation and it's smoke unit could certainly use help. It works but it is somewhat weak. It could also use the Cruise Command M update. What do you think about this loco as well. It might be best to do the Y6B first since the Allegheny already does most of what I want from its performance.

Ralph,

Mine did not have the Odyssey lurch, it just sort of jumped to the first speed step and didn't run as slow as I wanted on that first step. With the Cruise M it starts moving very slowly.

There are a couple of things that you're going to lose with the Cruise M. The brightness of the marker lights will decrease about 50%. In a brightly lit room it will be hard to tell if they are actually on even when they are. The flickering LEDs in the firebox won't work. One fixed red LED will stay on so you will have firebox glow but the flickering will not work. I'm sure there is some work around but I haven't looked into it yet.

It makes me worry about what you said about the boiler swelling. I haven't seen that but the moving steam line between the boiler and pilot fell apart from zinc rot. I've heard others have this part fail and of course Lionel doesn't have a replacement.

I need to open up the air intake hole some on the smoke unit to get more air thru the smoke unit. It smoke doesn't loft very far above the stack. What resistor did the Lionel tech recommend?

Ken

Hey Ken,

Actually, that resistor was for the older 27 ohm smoke unit resistors. Lionel does make these available but I can't think of the part number. Barry Kefauber at Legacy Trains in Georgia told me about them, I need to contact him again so I can get the number as well. They are not expensive so maybe order several things as you get charged $10.00 S&H regardless.  On my JLC Allegheny, I bored out the whole, if their was any insulation wrap on the resistor, I took it off and I changed the batting to the new batting Lionel has for sale.  Batting part # is 691SMKP008. Also, Lionel has a smoke unit motor which is slightly smaller but has a faster RPM which is better for a smoke unit and it's part # is 6101154130. 

My moving steam line also crumbled. I went to Lionel - nothing, not available. Even checked the newer Legacy Allegheny, also unavailable. I even contacted MTH but it would not have worked either. I called Sunset 3rd Rail, but they do not support their locomotives after so many years so I was on my own. I took the pieces, used a lot of superglue gel, sculpted and remade the part. I had a 2-rail scale friend here in Texas who did casting  and I had him make a set of number board light casings for the MTH Allegheny but when I reached out to him, his wife said he passed away a few years ago, I had no idea. Anyways, I did remake and shape mine but it is not as good as the original but it looks very good, as an old steam pipe should. When I took my boilder top off the bottom, it had a real grip on it, so much so that I thought I was overlooking another screw. When I put it back together, I filed it some so it would not be so stressed as it went back on.

@Rjm posted:

My JLC Allegheny has four chuffs per rotation and it actually smokes extremely well when it gets moving. I had changed the smoke unit resistor and it really made a difference, the Legacy Trains tech suggested this to me. Only when it is idle does it not smoke of course. But could you do this with the older JLC Y6B? This one was my father's and he loved that whistle but it chuffs only twice per rotation and it's smoke unit could certainly use help. It works but it is somewhat weak. It could also use the Cruise Command M update. What do you think about this loco as well. It might be best to do the Y6B first since the Allegheny already does most of what I want from its performance.

This upgrade works for the Y6B just as well as the Allegheny.  

What's the product number of the JLC Allegheny, is it the 6-38081?  That would explain the 4-chuffs/rev, it's from the 2007 catalog and they had upgraded the cams to 4-chuffs by then.  If it's the 6-38081, it came stock with the 6 ohm resistor.  The 6 ohm resistor is actually were too low a value and were causing excessive failures of the smoke regulators.  Lionel recommended changing the resistor to an 8 ohm one, and that's the value that most of the Legacy stuff runs with to this day.

You guys are so much better at these electronics than I am. I know how to do some things but I can't seem to keep up with everything Lionel changes around. And as for MTH, don't get me started!! LOL. Hey John, I placed a voice mail on your phone a few minutes ago. I am interested in working with you. Yes, the above number is my Allegheny's  product number but say changing out the 6ohm resistor to an 8ohm would make it smoke better? Also, someone said that putting the Cruise Command M in causes light functions to be lost. I have experienced that with an Atlas diesel. The board works perfectly but my marker lights ceased to operate. I know that has to be a fix for that be I have no idea.