K-Line Cruise Control

If you have a K-Line without cruise, I'd recommend the ERR Cruise Commander M, it's a currently produced product that you can readily obtain and it's documented.

Let's leave ERR and the Cruise Commander M out of this discussion. I'm aware of its benefits. I'm NOT asking "What should I use to put cruise in my K-Line engine?" For my own reasons, I am looking for specific information about, and experience with, the K-Line cruise, and especially the differences between the versions. 

Well, I have several locomotives with the K-Line cruise, but I'm not entirely sure which version they have, as the documentation available leaves something to be desired.  I know that one has the "Legacy like" flywheel toothed wheel, while at least one other has an older style encoder similar to the MTH PS/2 stuff.  The one that has the Legacy looking flywheel works very well, the other one is decent, but it seems to have delays built in to the operation at time, kinda like the TAS EOB did.

I have several others that had issues with the cruise to the point they now have the Cruise Commander, which is why I recommend it.

I was not aware there were different versions of the K-Line cruise.

I have two Mikados with K-Line cruise, both with the slotted wheel that John mentioned and they both work quite well. To the point where I see no reason to change them out at this time.

I have another Mike with EOB and it never has worked right.

Rod

You'll see a striking resemblance to the Legacy encoder to your K-Line...

Isn't this all Lionel equipment anyway, or just the TMCC versions.  Can you pull off a part number and cross it to Lionel's data base?

I am upgrading a K-Line TMCC and all the parts cross to Lionel stuff, though much is the obsolete stuff.  G

K-Line had their own cruise control board that was not Odyssey I, which they apparently weren't impressed with.  I never saw a K-Line with the magnetic ring like Odyssey I.

Here's a brief summary of my experience...  I purchased the K-Line EP-5...  It had K-Line cruise control but I don't remember which version it had...  The operation of the engine with cruise turned on was erratic and problematic [to put it kindly]... I always ran it with cruise turned off and the engine performed well...  I finally removed the K-line cruise control and installed a cruise commander M...  [The locomotive already had TMCC]...  Engine operates very well with the cruise commander M...

If this helps:

I have installed a K-line cruise kit in one of their Hudsons; works well, easy installation.

My K-line Berkshires* and my K-line E8's cruise well.

My 4-6-6 tanker is pretty good - a little surging, but very little, and it actually seems

to have improved (it is not a mechanical issue - the wee surge was absent when cruise

was turned off).

*I got a used, abused and re-assembled (not by me, but done correctly) Conventional IC Berkshire in trade; the cruise is awful and is left turned off. The surging is dramatic; I'm the third owner, so who knows?

Runs well, cruise-less, so far as Conventional goes.

I have a K-Line shay with the original cruise, and it works quite well. I can’t say which version of the cruise it is, but it holds speeds very reliably and can go incredibly slowly, even under conventional control.  It is just a little touchy compared to other systems - sometimes a small move of the throttle results in a jump in speed - but I'm happy enough with it to leave it alone.

I have 2 k-Line Mikados and one Berkshire, each with factory installed TMCC. I would like to add ERR Cruise Commander M to these locomotives.  I have never had to opened them. Is there room to easily make these installations without modifications to the shells?  Thanks,  Pat B.

Can you tell us how this is done?  G

Okay, I'm game!  Where do you get the wheel and gear ratios; and how is the programing done to the driver board - let's say for an E-8 AA Penna. 5 stripe set with four motors?  Dennis M.

The ERR Cruise Commander M replaces the same size DCDR in the locomotive, so it's a drop-in with the addition of one wire to bring in serial data.  To be fair, the CCM is about 1/8" longer, but that is not normally an issue.

This is for K-Line stuff that does NOT have the cruise factory installed.

I'm in too...

I am about to replace the standard control system in my K-Line 5344 with the K-Line upgrade Cruise Control kit and it would be really nice to know if reprogramming should be part of the process.

Hey Bob, how 'bout sharing your knowledge on this???

Best,

Dave

Dave;

From my experience the K-Line Hudson cruise kit is plug and play in the scale Hudson, the only exception being the soldering of the serial wire as mentioned above.

If you are using the Hudson kit it is already programmed for the correct drive ratio and wheel diameter.

The Hudson kit is actually the same one as for the scale Mikado, so they both must use the same drive ratio and wheel diameters that are compatible.

Rod

i've been wondering about that. The driver diameter on a Hudson and a USRA Mikado are nowhere near the same, so if they are going to use the same programming, the gear ratio has to be different in proportion to the difference in driver diameter to maintain the same overall drive ratio (i.e. turns of the flywheel per foot of motion on track). This proposition could be tested, but since I don't have a Hudson, I can't do it. 

Although it is generally believed that the Hudson and Mikado kits are the same, I wonder if they actually have the same programming. Most of the kits you see are labeled Hudson, but K-Line did issue a separate Mikado kit under a different product number. I've only seen a couple of these and they were version 4.0 stamped 2005 on the box. It could be that the kits will work either way, they just produce different speeds on the two locomotives at any given speed step. The only way you would notice a difference is if you were doubleheading, and who doubleheads a Hudson and a Mikado? The real railroads did it, using a Mike as a helper for a passenger train on a steep grade, but I've never seen anyone try it on an 0 gauge layout.

I actually know that Bill, but the instructions are more complicated than for the plain TMCC, I guess I should have been clearer about my description.

Thanks Rod, Thanks Pete !!!

I haven't taken the kit out of the box yet but I thought it better to be forewarned and prepared rather than to find myself in a mess and have to turn to my friends here on the forum once the locomotive was spread out like in an instruction sheet 'exploded view'...

Best,

Dave

Gunrunnnerjohn, Thanks for the reply, very helpful. I believe that I will make this mod.

Originally Posted by lpb007:

I have 2 k-Line Mikados and one Berkshire, each with factory installed TMCC. I would like to add ERR Cruise Commander M to these locomotives.  I have never had to opened them. Is there room to easily make these installations without modifications to the shells?  Thanks,  Pat B.

The ERR Cruise Commander M replaces the same size DCDR in the locomotive, so it's a drop-in with the addition of one wire to bring in serial data.  To be fair, the CCM is about 1/8" longer, but that is not normally an issue.

 

This is for K-Line stuff that does NOT have the cruise factory installed

I'm not sure why the drive ratio needs to be programmed into the board either. It probably makes a difference if you are using the same hardware for a diesel or a steamer, since the driver diameter is way different there. I'm not at all worried about ease of installation, it's obviously dead easy. I am just trying to find out whatever I can about the system and especially the differences between 3.0 and 4.0. I'm also hoping that Bob K will make the programming instructions available - hopefully it doesn't also require specialized hardware. 

A few years ago I copied a few posts from the forum pertinent to K-Line Cruise into a Word document. It doesn't look like it is complete with all the info Bob K implied he had but it might help those who noted a jerkiness with the engine.

Pete

Norton;

My thanks also for posting that information.

Handy to have.

Rod

How about an anonymous posting so you're not blamed for the person screwing up their locomotive?   It really would be useful information to have, and that's really one of the great things about this forum, the sharing of information.

Or just a simple disclaimer essentially telling people if they do perform the programming they do so at their own risk.

Thanks Bob.

Thanks from me too Bob.  I'm sure it will come in handy sometime in the future!!!

Best,

Dave

Great info Bob. Thank you. You mention not being able to return to the original settings which makes sense if you were not the one who programed it in the first place but can I assume if you do try and reprogram it and maybe input a wrong number or still find it is not right that I could try and program it again until I did get it right?

Also I wasn't aware that K-Line Cruise could control chuff rate. Can it in fact control chuff like DCS or TAS chuff & puff based on wheel diameter? If so I assume you have to move a wire from the micro switch to the cruise board??

Pete

Thank you.  G