Legacy Lash Up question

Cadillac Mike posted:

Hello all, 

In running my brand new ugly silver O&W F units, it seems when I lash up the dummy A to the powered B unit, the only sound I can get is the prime mover?  I am running the TMCC L Legacy  base with MTH TIU/handheld.  If I run the B unit by itself, all is well sound wise but as soon as I lash it up, I can only control both units smoke output and speed/direction from the handheld.  Is this a common thing where only the lead unit in a Legacy lash up has full sound and since the non-powered A unit has no sound, I get no horn/bell/train announcements?  I played with the sound switches on the power B but nothing changed.

Secondly, is there a way to add sound to the dummy A with an ERR sound commander since it is already Legacy equipped?  I do not see any instructions on the ERR website for adding these to units without motors?

I have only removed the non-powered A and powered B from the ABBA set boxes until Lionel sends out the new shells.  My weak heart cannot take that awful silver paint.  This is why I am only using these two units at the moment if you were wondering.  

Thanks in advance for your help!

Mike

Well sort of.  If you lash them up with a Legacy base and Cab2, you can assign which engines will produce the sound.  By default though only the first engine will have sounds.  I am not sure that you can accomplish that using a Base1L system or DCS.  I'll alert @Railsounds in as he may have a solution.

I hope your heart holds out.

Thanks Marty!  I was able to do a "work around" by assigning the B unit as the first unit in the lash up.  I just run it backwards so the A unit is actually first.  Still looking for information on that Railsounds upgrade though. 

Cadillac Mike posted:

Thanks Marty!  I was able to do a "work around" by assigning the B unit as the first unit in the lash up.  I just run it backwards so the A unit is actually first.  Still looking for information on that Railsounds upgrade though. 

Maybe you should change your name to "Cardiac Mike".  LOL. 

I'm not sure the RS boards from ERR will work with the Legacy electronics. 

Haha Marty, I like it! 

I will give the ERR board a try but am not sure what to do with the wires that would go to the motor that would pickup the variable voltage, increasing the rpm's.  Otherwise, the instructions are pretty much straightforward. 

FWIW, I have installed an ERR Sound Commander in a dummy engine and it works fine using a CAB2 Legacy remote although the lash-up of which it is part is set to TMCC control. Trouble is, I had to install an ERR dummy engine board in this unit to provide the serial data for Railsounds; I found that the ERR Mini Commander boards could not drive the Sound Commander although the manuals for them suggest that they can. 

I think that 3rd Rail must be selling the Sound Commander as an adjunct/upgrade to their own and other TMCC-equipped engines. I’m no expert but I think the serial data output from a Legacy control board is different to what the Sound Commander needs. Also, the TMCC dummy engine boards are not being offered by 3rd Rail (or it seems the Sound Commander 2 although the feature set of the Sound Commander looks similar).

Cadillac Mike posted:

Haha Marty, I like it! 

I will give the ERR board a try but am not sure what to do with the wires that would go to the motor that would pickup the variable voltage, increasing the rpm's.  Otherwise, the instructions are pretty much straightforward. 

I really don’t want to confuse matters but if you are running in command I think it’s the serial data that triggers changes in diesel rpms not any direct connection to the motor. I just looked at the current 3rd Rail version of the Railsounds Commander manual and no connections to the motor are shown; in conventional it appears that the board picks up voltage changes direct from track power.

I hope a real expert weighs in because now I am curious about this!

Ahh, so the plot thickens.  Serial data connection makes sense rather than the motor leads, now to figure out how to get that to the dummy unit since Sunset will not make any new boards for at least a month.  I was able to get one of their leftover F3 boards in July, hoping to install it in my dummy unit this fall.  

Reverting to your original question for a sec, you have only unpacked the unpowered A and a powered B; isn’t there a powered A as well? I have found that with Lionel Legacy diesel A-A sets, powered A’s don’t need to be lashed up via the remote with the non-powered A as they work as a unit out of the box. Check your manual for what it says about these engines’ IDs. Adding extra B units in will require lashing them up with the A-A.

Back to the Railsounds Commander (which is what 3rd Rail calls what used to be the ERR Sound Commander). I saw a recent thread somewhere in which Scott Mann suggested that 3rd Rail might be producing Mini Commanders if there’s a demand for them and the 3rd Rail manual I have looked at refers to the Mini Commander 2 as a board that can be used with the Railsounds Commander board. I think I tried to use an ERR Mini Commander EX (which was advertised as being usable in dummy engines and having serial output for sound) and found it would not drive the ERR sound board. In any event, there was an issue that resulted in my using the ERR dummy engine board. Someone more familiar with Lionel parts might be able to say if you can source a TMCC dummy engine board from them.

P.S. Hold on a sec. In the thread where Scott Mann made that comment, which is here:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...mmander-kit-received

a real expert, Gunrunner John, noted that the 3rd Rail RS board is actually based on the Legacy “RS Lite” board. Not sure if that means serial data from a Legacy board will drive it. Also not sure if the Legacy boards in unpowered diesels have any serial output at all!

I kept the powered A and Superbass B packed up hoping Lionel gets the replacement shells done in a timely manner, saving me a repack. They are sending FedEx call tags to people that purchased the O&W and T&P F's that were inaccurately painted.  I actually bought the ABBA set hoping to have 2 powered AB sets so I can run an O&W passenger and freight at the same time. I will probably never run them as an AA set but appreciate the fact that Lionel may not require that particular combination to be lashed up as separate units although with my D&H sharks I had to do this in order to fire the dummy A coupler?

I like the idea of having sound in both units which is why I am hoping to somehow get that sound commander issue figured out. 

Thanks for your assistance, we'll get to the bottom of this. 

Problem with ERR and Legacy is they are not internally compatible.  ERR is TMCC which is a lower bit rate then Legacy.  You can't mix TMCC and Legacy boards in a locomotive and get it to run as you'd expect it to.  If you did get it to work, then the whole train would be at TMCC sound level which would me no quilling whistle and only 23 or 100 speed steps instead of 200.

As for the lashup, when you build the train you can tell it which locomotive to sounds the whistle and bell from.  Look for the sound/speaker icon above the locomotive.  When that locomotive is highlighted there should be a softkey to press to make it the sound enigne.

The 200 speed steps sure are nice to have, I have to find a way to get sound into that pesky non powered unit though.