Lionel CW-80 Transformer

The lionel CW80 won't work on some ps2 or ps3 mth engines and ps1 too. Do to chopped sinewave. MTH run best on pure sinewave.   

If you run MTH engines then it is best to use an MTH transformer and be safe rather then sorry.

For whatever reason the CW-80 sends a bad signal to MTH PS-2 & PS-3 engines even in conventional mode, so it is best not to use the CW-80 for any MTH engine.

Lee Fritz

This topic comes up from time to time and if you usethe search feature here - it's not always easy to search for somethings, but . . . you will find a lot of discussion about this.  

I read reports and see people saying, as above, but will restrict myself to what I actually know from my exerience.  I have about 40 or so PS1, PS2, and PS3 locos, have run all on both CW-80s, ZW-Ls, and MTH Z4Ks, and have never seen any significant difference in how they run on Lionel versus MTH with the one exception I will get to below.  

I think MTH's not listing is just caution on their part: they can't test their product with everything out there and why should they go out of their way to test a competitor's product?  So they can't recommend and assure that everything works well.  

I "stress tested" a PS2 RK Y6B a year or so ago, running it 24+ hours straight off a CW-80, and it was fine (still is, having run maybe another 300 hours on it in the last year), but that doesn't prove other locos might not have problems.

Keep in mind I run only conventionally, so I have no experience with if it affects DCS at all.

The one "problem" I have seen is minor, even hard to detect, and nitpicky.  When running on a ZW-L or CW-80, some PS2 and PS3 locos' I own have their cruise control not work quite as effectively as if running on a Z4K or pure sine power source.  the MTh cruise still works, but speed falls very slightly going uphill under load and increase slightly coming downhill - whereas Lionel's Legacy, or MTH locos I have tested on pure sine wave power just nail-in speed exactly regardless.  

     This is a very minor issue and of no concern to me, and frankly I am not going to go back to MTH or pure-sine wave power supplies with MTH, because what I get is worth more.  My PS2 and PS3 locos (I no longer run any PS1) all run noticeably better at slower speeds conventionally on the ZW-L than on a Z4K any other non-Lionel power supply I have tested (note I have not tested anything by MRC).  I am certain that better performance is because of Lionel's use of always high voltage, duty cycle varying, chopped waveform power.  That improved low-speed response and linearity is worth more to me than the slight degradation in cruise on, for example, my new Premier ATSF 3460s. 

My layout has two loops connected by block sections. The outer loop is powered by a 100w MTH transformer and the inner loop is powered by a CW-80. I've been running PS-1 and PS-2 locos on it for a year without issue. 

You won't be able to activate the conventional features that require whistle and bell keypresses. The CW-80 delays/extends the signals sent by these buttons so you can't perform the correct half-second-interval signals that the PS1/2/3 systems are looking for in conventional.

---PCJ

They all seem to work with mine just fine. Perhaps I've learned to press and hold sufficiently but I can't recall any problems.

I think the early CW-80s which were internally wired backwards was another concern.  The new ones 2006+ are all fine.

I have seen a few PS1 and some PS2 balk with the newer CW-80, but very few.  Most are fine.  Keep in mind that some of the MTH transformers are also chopped sin wave too (not the Z4K), but they obviously tested their transformers with their engines together.

C'mon Lee, we already knew that you were special. 

Maybe, I'm just too stupid to know the difference?  The bell on a toy locomotive is supposed to buzz and hiss like a high-voltage short-circuit when you push the bell button, isn't it?

My experience with the CW-80 and an MTH T-1 4-8-4 steam engine(MTH # 20-3130-1) was horrible to say the least! It was making every sound that an MTH PS-2 engine could make and just setting there on the track acting like it wanted to move but could not.

I don't know what version the CW-80 was, but that was about three years ago at a friends house, as I don't have a CW-80 in my transformer bank.

Maybe the newer CW-80 will play better with the PS-2 engines, I can not say but I am not in a hurry to find out.

Lee Fritz

I know this is not true for PS-1 locomotives.  PS-1 locomotives are only conventional, and all 9 of mine run better with the CW-80 than the MTH Z-1000, when on a loop.  When on a point to point I had some issues with the horn constantly blowing at the end of the line, but then I only had one power drop from the CW-80.  But I have a lighted caboose fixes the horn issue, so I stick with the CW-80.  I have programmed all of them with the CW-80, and use all the transformer controlled features whenever I run.  Plus it's a better looking control, and they are kid proof.  My 1 year old has climbed on it, rolled it over, stood on it, dropped it, and played with the handle and not only does it still work great, but the notorious screaming fan has gotten nice and quiet.

I've seen this happen with PS1 when the leads are crossed.  Easy mistake to make by the way, I'm sure more than a few are.   The loco runs fine because the motor doesn't care: its AC either way the leads are connected, but the reversed leads make Lionel trains react strangely to the whistle and bell buttons, but they play havoc with some PS locos, I know: I gave away an RK Big Boy about five years ago to someone who had a CW-80 wired that way and they called in a panic with their ten year old all upset because it was doing just that, and I had to help them sort that out.