Lionel Mogul - Time for Answers! UPDATED!

SJC posted:

UPDATE!

Just got off the phone with Katie over at Lionel's Customer Service center. She told me that they are now taking the Moguls back and issuing RA numbers for them, as of this morning. The repairs will not be done until sometime this fall (September/October per her estimate). They want them all there to prep them and expedite the repairs once parts are in.

After a few more questions, Lionel agreed to "buy back" my Mogul. I will be shipping it back to Lionel tomorrow and will be getting a check in the mail sometime in the next few weeks for the total purchase price.

Just what I was told, don't hold me to it.....

Its true, sjc!  They already have my mogul and the refund process in being handled now.  I should be getting my money back in a few weeks as well.

Regards,

Blake

Dave will be posting more about this tomorrow.

What a bunch of Chicken Littles. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. I have been waiting so long for my Mogul. I don't have a Legacy Mogul but I do have a TMCC Mogul. One of my favorites, smooth runner, good sound and smoke. Bought it from DW&L Pete for a song. Lionel tried to make it better when they designed the Legacy version, it did not work. Lionel looked at a few bad engines and determined a fix was needed, announced it on the forum, has been communicating on the forum when the fix parts didn't do what they were supposed to. Dave has been up front with you guys and this is how you show your appreciation?

Do you remember when MTH lost their Korean manufacturer and it took them 2 to 3 years to find a new plant before they could even deliver a steam engine.

So my advice is to act like grown ups not children, be patient like Lionel is asking. If the 600 bucks you invested in a Mogul is sending you to the poor house communicate nicely to Lionel for a refund but you will regret it latter when they work out the fix and great videos are showing on YouTube of the Moguls running nice and smooth.

JohnB

Perhaps not very diplomatic, but the ring of truth. Every manufacturer has had problems too numerous to mention over the decades.

RickO posted:

Dave is doing the best he can. I'm sure he doesn't call the shots.

What bugs me most is the fact that that these locos are still for sale on dealer shelves and websites.

Thats just plain bad business if you ask me, and not the way the M.R. Era Lionel did things.

I agree, but it wouldn't surprise me that the current Lionel staff and its production schedule/items are in a weakened position by the more demanding offshore factory as well as greatly hamstrung by limitations by Lionel senior mgmt and/or its ownership group.

JOHNB posted:

What a bunch of Chicken Littles. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. I have been waiting so long for my Mogul.

So my advice is to act like grown ups not children, be patient like Lionel is asking. If the 600 bucks you invested in a Mogul is sending you to the poor house communicate nicely to Lionel for a refund but you will regret it latter when they work out the fix and great videos are showing on YouTube of the Moguls running nice and smooth.

John, it's a shame to make such a very flippant and dismissively condescending statement about others without any knowledge other than they spent in excess of $600 for an item that does not work and after almost 8 months of a 12 month warranty period the company can (or possibly will) not honor its printed warranty policy, which possibly can also lead to other business problems.

When M Reagan was at Lionel refunds were easy - once bought a Lionel FM Train Master(K-Line tooling) that would not go around an O31 curve as stated in the catalogue - sent it back and got a refund - no questions asked. May be Lionel feared that too many people would complain to their credit card company about a defective product - thus the change in policy allowing refunds.

John

These folks have been more than patient.  While they all understand that Dave and Dean as well as many other folks at Lionel are doing everything they can, there is a time when some folks just need to say enough.  Others will choose to wait it out but others want to move on and get over this.  I'd agree with you if we were only a month into this but enough time has gone by for folks to be understandably upset.  I feel your comments are not helping by insulting folks that have given Lionel plenty of time to make this right.  Unfortunately Lionel is at the mercy of an over seas manufacturer. 

If I were them, I think I'd be finding a new supplier / manufacturer (easier said than done I'm sure).  While I am a big Lionel guy, the recent issues should be making someone take notice in North Carolina.  Then again this is a view from the outside without any knowledge of their operation so I might just be blowing smoke.

Fortunately, I don't have a dog in this fight. Super glad I don't have that much money tied up in such a farce. In my humble opinion, the people have been more than patient and I think the Lionel group are in over their heads.

Regardless of manufacturer, if someone purchases an item which is defective immediately, they are entitled to a refund if they so choose.  Price paid and time waited is of no relevance to it.

I had a similar experience in 2007 with a product for one of my RC cars.  It affected every unit produced and called for a redesign.  I chose to wait it out, others chose an immediate refund.  Entirely their right as was my choice my right.  In the end, regardless of this the manufacturer made it right.  That is what should be expected.

No reason to belittle others over which choice they make.  I don't think anyone with these locos was acting unreasonable.  On the other hand I don't see anything from the Lionel side which shows they don't care or aren't working toward a solution.  It's perfectly within their right to request patience as it is for the buyers to become impatient and request a refund.

I personally think the idea of processing all repairs together in September is logical for many reasons, although it isn't as rapid as many want it to be.  This also gives them time to fully vet and verify the solution.  This is the correct verification path after root cause analysis and corrective action.

My 2005 vintage Lionel B&M Mogul still runs well, despite logging many miles as one of my favorite engines.  It went back to the factory for a smoke problem when new, but the smoke output was still anemic when I got it back.  Marty Fitzhenry took care of that; it still smokes well today.

Not sure what "improvements" Lionel made in the current run of Moguls, but it seems they should have "left well enough alone".

Those who are speculating why Sept for repairs and not now;  Really need to hold on for Dave's announcement.  All will become clear when Dave posts why.

For consumers who purchased the Mogul engine and experienced a possible hesitation in the engine performance, please reach out to Lionel Customer Service at 1-800-4LIONEL to initiate the process. We have been working with the factory and determined a good solution to fix the issue at hand. The Customer Service team will work with you on next steps and timing for the repair. The factory will be sending over technicians to our facility in NC to complete the updates. In order to eliminate future delays to existing 2018 production schedules, the update / fix will be completed in early fall. If you feel your locomotive is effected we ask that you send your locomotives in now in order to speed up the repair process. All engines will be checked / tested by our in-house Customer Service Technicians and Engineering team to ensure they meet the approved Lionel standard. Engines will be returned as promptly as possible pending parts delivery. Due to the nature of the repair all  engines must be returned directly to Lionel and not an authorized service center.

Lionel will not comment further on the forum. All communication will be handled through customer service 

Thank you for your patience-The Lionel Team

Well members...it appears this thread has gone its course based on Dean's post above....looks like a solution is at hand....  Thanks for your participation...

Alan