Local Hobby Store

necrails posted:

Test run or not the point is you had a person to speak to, you learned something, you have an item you like.  What could be better than that?  I need an item to fix something on my layout.  Now I could get it off of Ebay, I could contact MTH and it will arrive in 72 hours.  I asked the LHS to order it.  Why, because I like having a store 7 miles from my house, I like the conversation, I like browsing and I want them to stay in business.  It is a symbiotic relationship.  I provide them with $$$, they provide me with product and knowledge, a value added experience.  

I 100% agree with you.

Local hobby shops build relationships. Many owners are modelers too. Lots of clubs frequent specific stores.

They can become where people gather, become friends, share ideas.

But again it's a 2 way street. The store owner needs to cultivate the relationships, and also realise he has lots of competition. (not gonna get rich ripping off the locals). Word of mouth can be devastating to a business, so an owner has to be fair priced and receptive to customers. Grumpy only works in delecatessions  on Sienfeld... (no soup for you"

For the most part most purchases are from my local toy train shop (2.2-miles from house) or semi-local shop (35-miles away).

At local shop in all cases I test the engines and do mean test them.

The  last engine order from local shop was the MTH Premier EMD BL-2 demonstrator.  Tested this on the layout help build for better part of a day before opening my wallet.

Years ago when my special order MTH Premier Erie Triplex arrived ended up testing it several hours a day for the week.

And even more years ago when special order MTH Premier Big Boy came in tested it all day.

Same holds true for Lionel 765 and 1225.

If any problems show themselves the tech makes any adjustments and/or repairs before actual purchase.

Ron

Gentlemen,

     Here is what I see as to the local Hobby/Train stores.  Most do a lot more business on line than they do with walk in customers.  Unfortunately this stinks, Even Bill and Walts is not what it use to be.  The Penn Hills Hobby shop closed a little while ago, the daughter did not wan to run it, and the oldies retired and closed down the business.  Jim Sutter up in Indiana has been gone for years now, another real big loss to our hobby for sure.  That means the nice customer service of the home town hobby shop is pretty much gone around here.  I order most of what I want on line now, the OGR really helps with the knowledge as to where to purchase in our hobby, and I really appreciate the professional way the men who have businesses work with the OGR members.  

Just last year this was not the case, in the Pittsburgh, Pa area even with both Frank running trains in heaven and Jim retired, and others closing up also.  Sorry to say we now have to travel 30 miles to a decent train store, something I never though would happen in the western Pa area.  

Now the nicest Train store we have is Brady's up in Greensburg, Pa or Lenny's out in North Huntington, when he is open.  Both from where I live are over 30 miles away.  I really miss the old Iron Horse and Bill & Walts when Dave actually ran his store, to say nothing of Jim's and the old Penn Hills hobby shop.

PCRR/Dave

What about people who don't live in the NE? I haven't seen one thing I have before I already owned it.

PRRronbh posted:

For the most part most purchases are from my local toy train shop (2.2-miles from house) or semi-local shop (35-miles away).

At local shop in all cases I test the engines and do mean test them.

The  last engine order from local shop was the MTH Premier EMD BL-2 demonstrator.  Tested this on the layout help build for better part of a day before opening my wallet.

Years ago when my special order MTH Premier Erie Triplex arrived ended up testing it several hours a day for the week.

And even more years ago when special order MTH Premier Big Boy came in tested it all day.

Same holds true for Lionel 765 and 1225.

If any problems show themselves the tech makes any adjustments and/or repairs before actual purchase.

Ron

Seems that you, Ron, have very accommodating local stores and you are one fine negotiator to have such a good arrangement for you.

Randy_B posted:

What about people who don't live in the NE? I haven't seen one thing I have before I already owned it.

I see from your Profile, Randy, that you live in the great State of Texas. If there are no hobby stores anywhere near you, try to make a connection with some other very honest and reasonably priced vendor, with knowledge about trains. Such connection may be made on this Forum, at train shows, maybe at York if you ever go there. 

Find out from those you may have connected to on this Forum who has a great reputation as a vendor.

I have a vendor/owner of a train store in the NYC metro area that I trust and have confidence in. I will not identify him in a Forum Reply because there may be Forum members who are as good, if not better, vendors than my guy.

Anyone who wants to know the vendor who I know and trust can email me, and then I will send a reply email identifying my guy. I don’t believe my guy has a mail order business, so it probably makes no sense for you to find out who my guy is unless you also live in NY, NJ or CT.

Also, if you want a test drive in my guy’s store of a brand new engine, my guy won’t agree to that. Some of the above replies state that other vendors who will give the customer a test drive.

IMHO, a test drive is the best thing for a customer to get, along with a fair price and dime good advice on how to run and maintain the engine.

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

PRRronbh posted:

For the most part most purchases are from my local toy train shop (2.2-miles from house) or semi-local shop (35-miles away).

At local shop in all cases I test the engines and do mean test them.

The  last engine order from local shop was the MTH Premier EMD BL-2 demonstrator.  Tested this on the layout help build for better part of a day before opening my wallet.

Years ago when my special order MTH Premier Erie Triplex arrived ended up testing it several hours a day for the week.

And even more years ago when special order MTH Premier Big Boy came in tested it all day.

Same holds true for Lionel 765 and 1225.

If any problems show themselves the tech makes any adjustments and/or repairs before actual purchase.

Ron

Seems that you, Ron, have very accommodating local stores and you are one fine negotiator to have such a good arrangement for you.

As I said help build the 8X12-foot O-gauge layout.  And have spent tons of money there too!

Perhaps what we’ll see in the not distant future is something akin to Carvana; say a “Trainvana” albeit the delivery system is a drone as opposed to a flatbed truck.  

The drone would come complete with a small test track and perhaps a remote or smartphone type device to allow you to test the engine.  If you like what you see; you advise the guy sitting somewhere in a nondescript industrial park monitoring things on a screen that you’ll take it.  Insert your credit card and once payment is authorized, the remote monitor unlocks the new engine from the test track and back in the house you go with your new purchase.

Sounds kind of George Jetson-ish but; if trucks and cars can drive themselves, why not?

Curt

Randy_B posted:

What about people who don't live in the NE? I haven't seen one thing I have before I already owned it.

I hear ya!!  I have been limited to things online or going to look at nearly empty shelves. 

Jim 

beachhead2 posted:

necrails posted:

Test run or not the point is you had a person to speak to, you learned something, you have an item you like.  What could be better than that?  I need an item to fix something on my layout.  Now I could get it off of Ebay, I could contact MTH and it will arrive in 72 hours.  I asked the LHS to order it.  Why, because I like having a store 7 miles from my house, I like the conversation, I like browsing and I want them to stay in business.  It is a symbiotic relationship.  I provide them with $$$, they provide me with product and knowledge, a value added experience.  

No argument with that.  However, I was looking at a Legacy diesel at a LHS.  It was full MSRP + 7.5% tax.  ($650+).  While I was salivating over it, I could hear the owner telling a patron/friend that he's ready to retire, the building is for sale, etc.  So I was thinking, why start a relationship with this guy?  This same engine is $475 delivered online.  Why pay the premium if this place will be gone anyway?  

I would feel the same way if I overheard that conversation.

Its all in what is said and heard and the negotiation. 

For instance, the hobby shop Owner I recently bought from made a very favorable impression on me  because of what he said even though he did not give me the test drive I wanted in his store where he has a nice layout. I initially told him I expected to pay the full price for the engine as stated in the catalogue and he said he would do better than that. And he gave me a $60 discount ($389 instead of $499) plus tax. I was thrilled. I had offered to pay either by check, major credit card or cash, and he said credit card is fine. (I’m thinking this guy is totally legit and maybe patriotic because he pays Uncle Sam what is due to Uncle Sam). And he spent the time and told me the smoke units can be finnecky (sp?) and told me exactly what to do and I did that and it worked great. And after I bought the engine, he said take it home and run it in a few days( I read the directions cover to cover and ran it within 90 minutes) and if there is a problem, he will fix it or replace it with an identical one, and I totally trusted him because of the other honorable fair minded things he told me beforehand.

One more thing. He has a beautiful, well organized store and in a conversation I had with him a few years before, he mentioned a huge celebrity he has for a customer that rang true, and I’m thinking if he has customers with more money than God, this guy knows what it takes to satisfy good customers long term. He also custom builds layouts which tells me he loves trains and really knows his stuff. 

RSJB18 posted:

Arnold- very nice engine. I've been contemplating maybe a LC+ purchase one day soon.

As for LHS's- I am extremely lucky I guess. Here on Long Island I have three within a short drive. Trainland, Nassau Hobby, and Willis Hobby. All three are great stores with great people.

Since I buy all conventional equipment on the used market, I do my own repairs. Still nice to know I have the resources nearby if necessary.

I’m happy for you and from the replies of others, I guess we are lucky to be in the northeast.

juniata guy posted:

Perhaps what we’ll see in the not distant future is something akin to Carvana; say a “Trainvana” albeit the delivery system is a drone as opposed to a flatbed truck.  

The drone would come complete with a small test track and perhaps a remote or smartphone type device to allow you to test the engine.  If you like what you see; you advise the guy sitting somewhere in a nondescript industrial park monitoring things on a screen that you’ll take it.  Insert your credit card and once payment is authorized, the remote monitor unlocks the new engine from the test track and back in the house you go with your new purchase.

Sounds kind of George Jetson-ish but; if trucks and cars can drive themselves, why not?

Curt

I was thinking Star Trek and buying my new engine from Mr. Spock! 

beachhead2 posted:

justakid posted:

 

That's why I think York is a huge sucess..lots of merchandise..lots of price blow outs...and most of all...a great, fun gathering of like minded people in their quest for that "all I really need is..."

That's my theory of where the hobby is headed. I think eventually there will be Internet retail and train shows.  That's it.  Every big city will have repair guys.  And I think that will be okay.  It might be better.  I think Arnold started this topic on an optimistic level.  I'm optimistic but things are going to be different.

What you say is certainly a possibility.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Thank you, Frank.

Here is a short video of the Lion Chief Plus NJ Central Pacific using the remote, which I bought yesterday at the relatively affordable Price of $389:

Arnold

Agree Arnold, not a bad price. I always chuckle at the eBayers and online dealers who charge MSRP or more. No issue paying a premium over internet pricing to an LHS for sales support, advice, and willingness to stand behind the product. $389 for an LC+ is about what traditional with TMCC were going for 10-15 years ago retail without the speed control. When I buy new, I prefer to buy from an LHS or, at worst, a real brick-and-mortar LHS that's not local to me but local to someone else.

My local hobby shop is 2479 miles from here. Don

Don, sounds like you have a business opportunity at hand then in the land of eternal sunshine, pineapples and lava!

Kirk, they have tried it here before. The only thing that seems to work as a hobby shop here is RC cars and a few RC planes. No one here is interested in trains though the local Ace Hardware sells a few HO and large scale train sets at Christmas. Not sure if even the main island has a train store. Don

C W Burfle posted:

 Instead, I bought it, and he told me to run it on my layout within the next few days, and if there is a problem, bring it back; then, he will either fix it, or replace it with an identical one that works. 

Does every local hobby shop have the same policy?
Does every person have a local hobby shop to even ask?

I am lucky, my LHS, will always run something I want to buy.  At least I know it works out of the box .  A little more expensive than the internet, but worth it in my mind.

It's always best to support your local dealer if possible. If you don't they will all be gone and you will no longer be able to touch and feel before you purchase. Once the retailers are gone , on line pricing goes up, no more free returns or free shipping, and restocking charges will be put in place.  Patronize your local dealer when ever you can and keep the hobby alive.

jim911 posted:

It's always best to support your local dealer if possible. If you don't they will all be gone and you will no longer be able to touch and feel before you purchase. Once the retailers are gone , on line pricing goes up, no more free returns or free shipping, and restocking charges will be put in place.  Patronize your local dealer when ever you can and keep the hobby alive.

Well stated. Amen!

First step is to find a good, honest, fair-minded and knowledgeable hobby shop owner. Some of our Forum friends live in places where that may not exist. 

I got very lucky and found one. I suspect you have one too.

Arnold

Jim911,

   I agree 100%, if you have a good local Trains Shop/Hobby Shop definitely patronize it as much as you can.  We were so spoiled having some of the finest Train Shops in the USA right here in the Pittsburgh, Pa area, that now that we must travel 30 plus miles to a friendly store front, it is a definite shock to our Train Hobby needs.  That in reality is 60 plus miles out and back, just to visit a friendly store front, that may or may not have what you the consumer wants to purchase.

 I found this out just over the past 3 weeks, looking for a set of Trucks/Couplers for an original Lionel 817 Caboose.  Not only do the more modern places not have the inventory, the ones that do still have them, could care less about going thru their inventory to sell replacement parts worth very little in cost/profit.

 I ended up purchasing a complete piece of rolling stock, you guessed it off of the Net, just to get the original parts I needed to replace the Trucks/Couplers on the Lionel 817 Caboose.  

I wanted to purchase from my local Train/Hobby Store front, however I could no longer do so.  As I indicated before I would never have thought this kind of business practice would happen in the Pittsburgh, Pa area, especially when talking about our Train Hobby.  We had the best Trains Shops/Hobby Shops in the USA, here for over 100 years, in the Pittsburgh/Western Pa area.  It really is a shame what has happened.

PCRR/Dave

I do realize it's Lionel original Tin Plate, however until recently I never had any problem getting parts from our local Train/Hobby stores.  Lord do I miss Frank's Iron Horse Hobby Shop, Jim's Trains Store and Bill & Walts when Dave actually ran his own store.

Sad situation, no doubt about it.

How many mail order dealers advertise with OGR, either in the magazine, or as board sponsors?    Isn't this whole thread a slap in the face to them?

IMHO, honest, fair-minded and knowledgeable mail order dealers provide an invaluable service, especially to those areas where there are no hobby shops, which is most of the country.

IMHO, so do honest, fair-minded and knowledgeable hobby store owners and dealers at train shows.

C W Burfle posted:

How many mail order dealers advertise with OGR, either in the magazine, or as board sponsors?    Isn't this whole thread a slap in the face to them?

Well Clevis....I don't think it is because many of our advertisers and sponsors have both a retail store as well as an online business.  Some only have one or the other and each of them have their own business model and policies.  Threads like this always bring out the lamenting of certain individuals when it comes to their local situations...I call it the "good ole days" syndrome.  In my mind, with all of the choices we have, today represents what will become in the future the good old days for many current hobbyists.  And I might add that our current group of dealers, hobby shop owners, advertisers, sponsors, etc. are contributing to the those future "good ole days"....so support them as much as you can!

Alan

C W Burfle posted:

How many mail order dealers advertise with OGR, either in the magazine, or as board sponsors?    Isn't this whole thread a slap in the face to them?

CW, while many "mail order dealers" are known that way to folks across the country, let's not forget that many of them STARTED as a Local Hobby Shop and had the business savvy to attend train shows for increased exposure, and then embrace the Internet early on to grow their business accordingly. 

Back in the mid-1980's, I lived in central NJ and often attended train shows quite regularly, and that's when I first heard about Grzyboski Trains.  I've been buying from Charlie Ro since the 1970's -- mostly from his ads in the train magazines.  The 1970's were pretty much my teen years, and I thought it was super cool when I'd get a chance to meet and talk with Charlie back in the 1970's.  He'd have a huge table that took up a good part of the back wall in Agriculture Hall at the Allentown ATMA shows.  Both Charlie Ro and Grzyboski Trains were the largest train dealers attending ATMA in those days.  Yet as far as I know, even back then they had a brick-and-mortar presence in their local communities.

I admit that small, purely "mom and pop LHS" train stores might exist today, but they are truly RARE.  And if they're NOT "online" or "mail order" to some extent, they're probably operating on borrowed time.

David

Both Alan and David, very well said.  I'm probably in the minority but I love threads that discuss local hobby shops, Internet retailers, state-of-the-hobby, etc.  Maybe it's because I'm a relative newcomer and I have no emotional stake in what came before.  I just like speculating on what the future might bring.

Gentlemen,

I do not think this thread is a slap in the face to any of the businesses, in reality it's just a fact of life for the way business is really being done today.  I support the OGR Sponsors and I like the walk in stores also, and I am forced to use the Net more and more to get the exact items I want to purchase for my Train Room.  The Lionel 8" Outside Christmas Balls I just purchased came from out of state at a very reasonable price.  No walk in store had them in the area where I live.  

PCRR/Dave

My Local Train Shop

My loco train shop is about 150 miles from my train room. They are a real train shop. They only sell ‘O’ Trains. MTH • Lionel • Atlas.  They have a large in store layout with, MTH -DCS with Wi-Fi along with Lionel Legacy.

Brian takes care of all the technical issues to help the customers. MTH Authorized Service & Demo Center with several large in store shows per year with executives from the major manufactures.

Gary

My LHS is the BEST place I know to get reliable service.