In 1974 you could buy a Coach ticket and ride in the caboose if you were a shipper and could justify your interest in a specific route or interchange such as UP-Fremont-CNW- Chicago. ATSF-TPW-PRR was not available. The ride was not like in the full dome car on the San Francisco Chief. John

Arnold; the slack action on the rear of a freight train would knock the nostalgia out of you pretty quickly.

Now; I did enjoy a late evening years ago in the rear of a CSX office car attached to the back of the Sunset Limited.  There were four of us in two office cars, a buddy of mine from CSX’s fertilizer business unit, a company photographer and the office car attendant.  After the other two went to bed, my buddy and I sat up enjoying an adult beverage or two while watching Alabama disappear behind us in the track inspection lights.

I remember the engineer of a passing freight radioing the Sunset’s engineer and commenting about having “the bosses” on the rear of the train.  I thought “buddy, if you only knew...”. 😁

Curt

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Has anyone ever done this?

Is it possible to do this today without being a railroad employee? Is it even possible if you are such an employee?

Arnold

Mainline freight trains haven't had cabooses for around 40 years.  Those still in operation that aren't private company escort cabooses for specialty loads are shoving platforms with little to no interior or the doors are welded shut.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Mainline freight trains haven't had cabooses for around 40 years.  Those still in operation that aren't private company escort cabooses for specialty loads are shoving platforms with little to no interior or the doors are welded shut.

Rusty

If that is the case, Rusty, then just throw me and my guitar into a box car on a long freight train. I will be like Woody Guthrie in Bound for Glory, a great movie IMO.

LOL, Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

If that is the case, Rusty, then just throw me and my guitar into a box car on a long freight train. I will be like Woody Guthrie in Bound for Glory, a great movie IMO.

LOL, Arnold

Trying to explain real prototype railroading to some of the "toy train" crowd is becoming quite a chore!

@juniata guy posted:

Arnold; the slack action on the rear of a freight train would knock the nostalgia out of you pretty quickly.

Now; I did enjoy a late evening years ago in the rear of a CSX office car attached to the back of the Sunset Limited.  There were four of us in two office cars, a buddy of mine from CSX’s fertilizer business unit, a company photographer and the office car attendant.  After the other two went to bed, my buddy and I sat up enjoying an adult beverage or two while watching Alabama disappear behind us in the track inspection lights.

I remember the engineer of a passing freight radioing the Sunset’s engineer and commenting about having “the bosses” on the rear of the train.  I thought “buddy, if you only knew...”. 😁

Curt

A lot you know about riding in a caboose! 
Yes, there were some engineers that could be rough from time to time, however, the result of slack action depended more on the type of caboose having a proper cushion underframe more than it did to rough train handling!

@juniata guy posted:

Arnold; the slack action on the rear of a freight train would knock the nostalgia out of you pretty quickly.

 

Curt

Amen!

@Big Jim posted:

A lot you know about riding in a caboose! 
Yes, there were some engineers that could be rough from time to time, however, the result of slack action depended more on the type of caboose having a proper cushion underframe more than it did to rough train handling!

Jim; I guess I was never lucky enough to have you running on the head end.  😉

Curt

@juniata guy posted:

Jim; I guess I was never lucky enough to have you running on the head end.  😉

Curt

Same here! My only long distance ride in a caboose was on the B&O (winter of 1962/1963) from Connelsville back to Cumberland, MD. Absolutely NEVER again!

Arnold in Winnsboro, S.C. their train rides consist of a bunch of cabooses hooked together. here is there Facebook link https://www.facebook.com/SCRMF and here is the web address for it https://scrm.org/?fbclid=IwAR2...IEC57x-wZofLK1IEtAiE

@rtraincollector posted:

Arnold in Winnsboro, S.C. their train rides consist of a bunch of cabooses hooked together. here is there Facebook link https://www.facebook.com/SCRMF and here is the web address for it https://scrm.org/?fbclid=IwAR2...IEC57x-wZofLK1IEtAiE

Obviously NOT on a "long freight train", that he inquired about. 

As a caboose fan, I am glad l got to ride in three narrow gauge cabooses, and their cupolas, two Maine two foot combine cabooses, and the EBT years ago. Wish the Silverton or Cumbres offered that kind of ride.

@Hot Water posted:

 

No, but it seemed his main concern was to ride in a caboose

Riding in a caboose looked fun from an outsider's perspective, and a lot of employees from the past joke about drinking and/or sleeping back there.  It was actually serious work.  A few duties included:

• when standing, telling the engineer when the brakes were kicking off. 
• informing the engineer when the rear of the train started moving.
• informing the engineer when the rear end was over any type of speed restriction.
• reading the failed-equipment-detector that didn't "talk".
• protecting grade crossings on a backup move.
• "lining up behind" upon entering a siding.
• ...and much more.

I always wished I could have deadheaded in a caboose where I could release my mind and enjoy the ride, but the DS knew the bus was faster so that is how we went.

For one summer, maybe about 12 years ago, you could ride in a caboose on the Strasburg RR. It was put on the end of the train that ran on the half hour. I would guess it had a short life due to the logistics of holding just a few people, as well as safety considerations concerning kids. 

Joe; Strasburg has been adding a caboose to their weekend trains since they restarted in late June.

Curt

HI Arnold: I would like to recommend the Steam Railroading Institute at Owasso Michigan.  You can buy one seat on a caboose or the entire caboose for private parties.  This train travels on the Main Lines of Michigan. Check it out at the link below.

https://www.michigansteamtrain.com/

Check out this video on my YT:

Pere Marquette • Berkshire 1225 • 2 8 4 • Steam Railroading Institute • Michigan's Main Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZt83PevSyM

Hope this helps: Gary 🚂

They're not doing anything right now, let alone mainline runs.  From their website:

Disclaimer:

The Steam Railroading Institute will be postponing the 2020 opening day and Summer Hours for visits and tours. The Institute will remain closed to the general public until further notice.

Rusty

Hi Arnold:

This is the link to their e-mailing list. Sign up here to receive e-mails on their upcoming excursions. Michigan is now in the process of opening up from COVID-19.  Michigan now has most everything open above the 45th parallel.

https://www.michigansteamtrain...uccess/3480#form3480

We hope they will be able to run their Fall Excursions and the Christmas Trains..

Hope this helps and look forward to seeing you on the 1225. Gary 🚂

@juniata guy posted:

Joe; Strasburg has been adding a caboose to their weekend trains since they restarted in late June.

Curt

Thanks, good to know. Almost all of my many visits have avoided weekends. It's only a one hour drive for me, plus my train buddy is now 15 and living in MA. 

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Has anyone ever done this?  Yes.

Is it possible to do this today without being a railroad employee? Is it even possible if you are such an employee?  

No, and no.

Wouldn't it be fun to ride in a caboose (the crummy) with your favorite train buddy, drinking coffee or your favorite beverage, at the end of a 100 plus car freight train for 1,000 or more miles?

Not while the train was moving, Arnold.  A cup of coffee in a moving caboose meant using a stainless steel unbreakable thermos to very quickly pour coffee into the screw-on cup, and then quickly drinking it.  It was function, not like drinking a cup at home or in a cafe.  

Of course, you would bring along some good food to cook on the stove in the caboose during such a long freight train ride, maybe bacon and eggs, hamburgers and hot dogs, etc.

Well, again, NOT during the ride.  A pan on the stove, even with a railing around the top, could be violently moved at any moment, and, even if it didn't fly off the stove, the contents could go all over.  There were a few men who cooked on the fly in a really heavy cast iron Dutch oven, often secured on the stove with bailing wire, but not many did.

And, you would want to climb up into the cupola (sp?) to get the best view of the landscape rolling by, which could be breathtaking in certain sections of this beautiful country.

The view was good, it's true, but you would want to have your feet braced against the front wall of the cupola at all times, and, in cabooses so equipped, you would want to wear the seat belt.

I don't mean to throw cold water on a good daydream, Arnold, and it really sounds nice.  In reality, though, at most times when the caboose was in motion, the crew members had to protect themselves from sudden slack action which, if they were to fall or lose their balance and run into something, could result in an injury.  Cabooses typically had poles and/or posts and overhead railing inside so that a man walking on the floor could remain prepared for slack. When the train was moving on a constant ascending grade for a distance, there was not a lot of risk, but, when the engine reached the crest of the grade, the potential for run-ins and run-outs of slack resumed.   Cooking, drinking coffee, and eating a meal, were best done while the caboose was stopped.  Same goes for restroom functions.

I know little about it, but to go along with Tom's interesting information, I recall a brief comment by a person I was slightly acquainted with years ago, who was an exec. with BN in Ft. Worth, and then BNSF, before he retired. I remember hearing him remark once (he was with a few other fellows as well, at the time) that he was relieved when the cabooses disappeared from use, because of the serious injuries that occurred to crewmembers riding in them. I think he also specifically mentioned all the injuries resulting from crewmen getting knocked around in slack-related accidents.

The thing to remember is a caboose isn't built like a Pullman and the cupola isn't built like a dome car.

Even in a museum/tourist road environment with the slower speeds and short runs, one has to be cautious.

Rusty

Boy... from the sounds of it... y'all had some rough engineers.

I cut my teeth learning to handle trains back in the days of occupied cabooses. I guess the Engineers I was around were throttle artists that knew what they were doing. In retrospect, I was very thankful to be taught by them.

Their teachings enabled me to handle trains smoothly enough that I was eventually used in passenger (excursion) service for over 10 years and have handled 7+ cars of passengers at speeds of 45 MPH while being served wine (served while in motion) in long stem glasses and/or diners with tall floral vases on the table with zero slack spillage incidents.

It was all in knowing how to keep the train stretched, or when absolutely necessary, how to bunch them up smoothly. I was taught, and routinely used, techniques that are absolutely, positively, VERBOTEN in today's railroading. Today's crop of Engineers will never be taught how to handle air to the point they can competently control slack, either passenger or freight, and might not even know how to descend steep grades using nothing but air. Today it's all about "bunch and stretch" via dynamic brake usage when dealing with humps and grades.

During one of the times I was called upon to shove something like 125 empty coal cars with a Conductor (Randy Campbell) riding the point and instructing via radio. We had crossings to slow for, acceleration/de-acceleration/etc. At times I was able to shove up to the allowable 20 MPH. We eventually had them where they needed to be and they were tied down and we cut away. During the run back to the terminal in the light engines, I asked him if he had to hang on for dear life with that much slack to deal with. He replied: "I never felt a thing."

It was very gratifying to hear that, for I took handling trains seriously and was very motivated to be as good as I could be at it.

I do miss handling trains.

Andre

Arnold - take a trip to the NH lakes region and you can get a seat in the caboose of the Lake Winnipesaukee (a/k/a Hobo) Railroad or rent out the entire caboose for parties, etc.

http://www.hoborr.com/caboose.html

I used to play in a few abandoned cabooses.  It was like a jungle gym they had so many grap points. This wasn't lost on me.

Sitting in the coopla wasn't real easy even when teen sized, at rest. The seat barely holds your behind and you better have good back posture to sit upright at 90° no recline, and leaning fwd unbraced you're ready to fall or slip .

I couldn't image wanting to do it for long stretches while moving, even if a few inches taller now.

The coopla was also like a hot little greenhouse when still. I only went up a few times out of countless visits to them. Too much "work"& too easy to fall and get hurt.

@Adriatic posted:

I used to play in a few abandoned cabooses.  It was like a jungle gym they had so many grap points. This wasn't lost on me.

Sitting in the coopla wasn't real easy even when teen sized, at rest. The seat barely holds your behind and you better have good back posture to sit upright at 90° no recline, and leaning fwd unbraced you're ready to fall or slip .

I couldn't image wanting to do it for long stretches while moving, even if a few inches taller now.

The Frisco had some cabooses (the 1200's?) with some kind of passenger-type truck under them, and big ol' soft, comfy cupola seats... almost in a "lean back" position. I'm telling you, it was WAY too easy to be rocked to sleep in those cabooses when rolling along at track speed.

Andre

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Has anyone ever done this?

Is it possible to do this today without being a railroad employee? Is it even possible if you are such an employee?

Wouldn't it be fun to ride in a caboose (the crummy) with your favorite train buddy, drinking coffee or your favorite beverage, at the end of a 100 plus car freight train for 1,000 or more miles? Of course, you would bring along some good food to cook on the stove in the caboose during such a long freight train ride, maybe bacon and eggs, hamburgers and hot dogs, etc.

And, you would want to climb up into the cupola (sp?) to get the best view of the lanscape rolling by, which could be breathtaking in certain sections of this beautiful country. 

Arnold

I was the rear brakeman (flagman) on a NY to Harrisburg back in the early 70s. Road in the hack and ended up getting a case of the crabs.

Ponz

@Rusty Traque posted:

Mainline freight trains haven't had cabooses for around 40 years.  Those still in operation that aren't private company escort cabooses for specialty loads are shoving platforms with little to no interior or the doors are welded shut.

Rusty

King Reagan did away with the caboose (hack)

Ponz

@laming posted:

Boy... from the sounds of it... y'all had some rough engineers.

I cut my teeth learning to handle trains back in the days of occupied cabooses. I guess the Engineers I was around were throttle artists that knew what they were doing. In retrospect, I was very thankful to be taught by them.

Their teachings enabled me to handle trains smoothly enough that I was eventually used in passenger (excursion) service for over 10 years and have handled 7+ cars of passengers at speeds of 45 MPH while being served wine (served while in motion) in long stem glasses and/or diners with tall floral vases on the table with zero slack spillage incidents.

It was all in knowing how to keep the train stretched, or when absolutely necessary, how to bunch them up smoothly. I was taught, and routinely used, techniques that are absolutely, positively, VERBOTEN in today's railroading. Today's crop of Engineers will never be taught how to handle air to the point they can competently control slack, either passenger or freight, and might not even know how to descend steep grades using nothing but air. Today it's all about "bunch and stretch" via dynamic brake usage when dealing with humps and grades.

During one of the times I was called upon to shove something like 125 empty coal cars with a Conductor (Randy Campbell) riding the point and instructing via radio. We had crossings to slow for, acceleration/de-acceleration/etc. At times I was able to shove up to the allowable 20 MPH. We eventually had them where they needed to be and they were tied down and we cut away. During the run back to the terminal in the light engines, I asked him if he had to hang on for dear life with that much slack to deal with. He replied: "I never felt a thing."

It was very gratifying to hear that, for I took handling trains seriously and was very motivated to be as good as I could be at it.

I do miss handling trains.

Andre

Tell me about it.  I remember laying down 1/4 mile lengths of rail, by radio, with the engine waaay out of sight.

Ponz

@Ponz posted:

King Reagan did away with the caboose (hack)

Ponz

Not really. With the development of cab air conditioners for locomotives, naturally the operating craft unions wanted AC in the cabooses too. That was not technically nor financially feasible. Plus, with the ever increasing train lengths, the crew in the caboose was no longer able to visually inspect at least half of the train, from their vantage point on the rear end. Thus, the increasing technology of way-side defect detectors finally spelled the end of cabooses.

@Ponz posted:

King Reagan did away with the caboose (hack)

Ponz

The Florida East Coast was the first to do away with caboose operations in 1972, long before Reagan became President.  It was only a matter of time that work rules regarding caboose operations would be renegotiated for other railroads.

Rusty

Considering slack action, I would not want to be in a caboose of some of the very long ttains today!

@Dominic Mazoch posted:

Considering slack action, I would not want to be in a caboose of some of the very long ttains today!

What "slack action"? What with the use of DPUs and the computer controlled operations by "Trainminder" in conjunction with PTC, everything is now very smooth.

@Rusty Traque posted:

The Florida East Coast was the first to do away with caboose operations in 1972, long before Reagan became President.  It was only a matter of time that work rules regarding caboose operations would be renegotiated for other railroads.

Rusty

The way I recall, at least for Conrail and the Northeast Corridor, the caboose was eliminated at exactly the same time the rear brake position was eliminated.  I lost TONS of seniority at that time and was forced back on to the Extra List.

Ponz

@Ponz posted:

The way I recall, at least for Conrail and the Northeast Corridor, the caboose was eliminated at exactly the same time the rear brake position was eliminated.  I lost TONS of seniority at that time and was forced back on to the Extra List.

Ponz

That's called progress!

@juniata guy posted:

Jim; I guess I was never lucky enough to have you running on the head end.  😉

Curt

I had some good engineers to work with! However, you have to have a good cab to begin with, and, we had some good cabs on the N&W (proper)!!! After the mergers, those cabs from other roads were pieces of junk!

WOW! How fortunate was I?
Going back and reading what some of you have had to say, well, I consider myself lucky that we had good cabs to ride on...up until the management started importing cabs from foreign roads! Until then, I enjoyed the times that I worked as Conductor or Rear Brakeman riding the cab.
And now, I will cherish my memories from the cab even more!
BTW, there was never a better place to learn the lay of the road than from the cupola of a caboose riding behind an empty hopper train in daylight!!! 

I'm a bit doubtfull about the 1000 mile part. Freight crews generally have always just worked in their own division, so I think a couple hundred miles would be about the longest trip they could do.

Dad rode a lot of freight trains when he was the Cook on a work train. Their crane was self-powered and was typically their only motive power when on-the-job. Moving between jobs was done by hanging their string of equipment onto a freight train. The Gang usually wasn't aboard for moves but part of Dad's job was taking care of the work train so he was always aboard for moves, typically done at night. His bed was bolted to the floor lengthways to the car and Dad would pack pillows at the head and foot to keep him from injury when the slack repeatedly ran in and out. He said it was generally a very rough ride.

@wjstix posted:

I'm a bit doubtfull about the 1000 mile part. Freight crews generally have always just worked in their own division, so I think a couple hundred miles would be about the longest trip they could do.

Yep

  The only caboose ride I've ever taken was on the Cumbres & Toltec and it was obviously not a long distance nor was it a revenue run....on the other hand I do have some information about others who have ridden a caboose in revenue service...

  "On the Pere Marquette, a train of empty freight cars was rumbling out of the yards at Benton Harbor, Michigan. Back in No. A616, Conductor Roy Blodgett called over to his rear brakeman, Charlie Webster: "A bird is chasing us." When the train stopped, the trainmen discovered that a mother robin had built her nest on the under side of the crummy.  In it were three blue eggs. Ward Salsbury, head brakeman saw the men peering under the caboose and he yelled: Whatsa matter; got a hot box down there?"

  "No," the conductor shouted back. "A robin's nest. Go easy will you?"

  So Engineer Charlie Wilcox did his darnedest to make the starts and stops as joltless as possible all the way to Hartford, Michigan.  The fireman was Howard Peck. On the return trip to Benton Harbor, the caboose was placed exactly in the same spot on the storage track from which it had been taken, in the hope that Mrs. Redbreast would go back to her eggs. Sure enough, she did.

  The story spread, arousing sympathetic interest. C.A. Wilkins, general agent and former train dispatcher, decided that something should be done about it.  He telegraphed J.G. Grigware, superintendent of the Chicago-Petoskey Division at Grand Rapids, explaining the situation.  Back came the order:

    "Use extra caboose until robin is done with car"

  Mr. Grigware sent an extra crummy to Benton Harbor.

From A Treasury of Railroad Folklore - Botkin and Harlow

Get a membership at IRM. They have an ICG “Centrailia” caboose (longer porches) that’s often on the end of their caboose train. You can ride the rear, ride in the car, and ride in the coupla. You can also ride in other cabooses that aren’t the last car of the train. Even at 40-ish MPH in the museum train, you can get a slight feel for the bouncing around conductors/rear brakemen must’ve gone through at work.

I was an engineer on the Santa Fe when we still had cabooses, a couple of times when I was a fireman, still living in Topeka, I got short called, and got to Emporia just in time to see my train leaving without me, but was able to catch the way car and ride it to Ark City with the rear end guys. A couple of times when deadheading home, it decided to try the caboose for something different. After that, I decided I'd rather be on the head end, and never rode another one again. I never was a trainman, so don't have much experience back there, but decided it was better up front.