Skip to main content

How so?  Be specific.

I truly appreciate your enthusiasm for the hobby, and positivity about its future, but ...

@Madockawando, who's feeding you the kool-aid?  How much have you had?  (It's probably best to consume it in moderation.)

Neither of your statements in the latter post above is verifiable.

Mike

Who wouldn't be excited about the latest Lionel catalog. It speaks volumes about how strong Lionel is at the moment and Lionel's confidence in the health of the hobby as a whole. This isn't catalog of a timid, cautious company. We should all be happy about that.

As for DCS: Can you name any recent technological upgrades to DCS?  Be specific as you say  

Legacy makes it better! And with this catalog hobbyists could run eight different Class A locomotives as the same time with their CAB-3. Choices! Lot's of choices!

Control system or not fact is Lionel is making models of things in O that already have models of them, not anything new. Plus I can run 8 different locomotives with TMCC or DCS at the same time, so nothing new there either.

I don't buy locomotives because of a specific control system or because they are a specific brand. I have locomotives with TMCC, Legacy, and DCS. I buy something because it fits with my modeling.

I certainly don’t share your pessimism about Lionel’s  Legacy control system. You say everything will be useless bricks in twenty years, yet I am running my new Lionel Legacy locomotives with a CAB-1 remote and base that are physically 25 years old.

I'm not talking about the remotes, I'm talking about the iDevices (i.e. tablets, smartphones) Base3 and WTIU. 

I’m not talking about the technology, I am talking about the actual remote and command base themselves. There is no basis to say that the CAB3 base you buy this year will not be operating 20 years from now.

If folks that are new to the hobby don't have a remote, they'll be missing out on the Legacy features once app development ceases or some new app renders the Base3 useless because WiFi standards change or something.  Keeping apps up to date isn't easy while Google and Apple continue to push their APIs and OSes forward.

Your Cab-1 works but many others have reached the end of their useful lives.  As electronics and technology advances it will be more and more difficult to repair these things as well.  It's already becoming difficult to source certain microcontrollers and even certain LEDs and things.  That said in 20 years, I'd rather be trying to repair a Cab-1 or Cab-2 than a smartphone.

The same thing for the CAB3 app, if you have it on your device, it will work, apps don’t just stop working.

Oh yes they do.  All the time.  Many apps phone home to a server to periodically check in and authorize it for use.  Others fail to work after upgrading the phone to a new version of the OS.  I have an iPad that is about nine years old and it is totally useless.  It's stuck on an older iOS version and most apps have ceased to work on it.

And even if for some strange reason it doesn’t, then use your CAB-1L hand held remote since Lionel will still have remotes.

Lionel will sell 1Ls until they don't.  I imagine that is soon reaching the end of it's manufacturing lifetime.  For all we know this could be the last run.

I am very optimistic and excited about the future of the hobby and the technology is the key to that optimism. Especially after listening to Dave and Ryan at Lionel introduce the CAB-3. Lionel legacy is a thriving and growing system that is backward compatible as well. The best part is that even with all the technological innovations I still only need one wire to hook up. It is the future and it is what will bring new people into the hobby. DCC is a non factor for three rail, DCS has reached a dead end technology wise. New people will gravitate towards the CAB3, not DCS, because Legacy is evolving and thriving.

The technologies are equivalent.  They'll last just as long as they're supported.

This is a great time to be excited about the hobby! The only reason why I would feel pessimistic would be if I had a room full of DCS locomotives. I would be asking myself: “now what do I do?”

Keep trolling.

After watching the CAB3 presentation, I think the best course of action for Atlas and the MTH DCS remnant company would be to try to work with Lionel to get their locomotives compatible so they can be run by the CAB3. There is no longer a real business case to have  a separate control system in the face of the CAB3. Atlas and MTH should also do it for the good of the hobby as well for their long term survival in the O gauge three rail market.

There is no doubt that both Atlas and MTH remnant would sell more locomotives if they could be run by the CAB3.

The industry should have adopted DCC long ago but the bullheaded, pretentious p***ing match continues to rear it's ugly head.

DCS will continue, virtually unchanged, for a while. Not because the hobby needs it but rather because some are emotionally invested in it to let it go. But my point it is that the release of of the CAB3 by Lionel may cause Atlas to reconsider how the Command and Control landscape has change and how they may have to change with it.

Pure speculation. You know nothing of what is going on at Atlas or even Lionel or anyone else for that matter yet you keep saying stuff as if it were fact. Troll.

As for DCS: Can you name any recent technological upgrades to DCS?  Be specific as you say

There are exactly zero technological upgrades in this new Lionel catalog.  Only band-aids.

The Cab-3 is simply a collection of existing technologies.  Some of them are tweaked a little, but nothing new.  4 Digit addressing in the N&W 'A' is hardly earth shattering.  The new CAB-3 app might be one, but we neither seen, nor more importantly played with, its features yet.

Mike

@Lou1985 posted:

Also the OP asked a DCS question in the MTH forum, so how is telling him all about Legacy Cab3 and Lionel's latest offerings helping?

Let's get back to the actual topic.

Sure, but in fairness to myself, I was not the first one to bring Legacy into this thread and I was giving an optimistic counterpoint to what I thought was a rather pessimistic assessment to it's future. Behold:

Whenever the app stops working on a given mobile OS I’m sure the answer will be “run it conventionally.”  The same thing will happen to Lionel’s new Base3.  All of these Bluetooth/Wi-Fi iThingies will be useless bricks in 20 years, as will the WIU, WTIU, and Base3.  It gives me no pleasure to state this fact, but such is technology.  

Since these are closed systems, the best we can hope for is that an open source project will get started to reverse engineer all this garbage.  Or commodity DCC electronics that work well with larger O sized motors.

There are exactly zero technological upgrades in this new Lionel catalog.  Only band-aids.

The Cab-3 is simply a collection of existing technologies.  Some of them are tweaked a little, but nothing new.  4 Digit addressing in the N&W 'A' is hardly earth shattering.  The new CAB-3 app might be one, but we neither seen, nor more importantly played with, its features yet.

Mike

Are you saying there was no engineering work that went into the CAB-3?

Are you saying there was no engineering work that went into the CAB-3?

Little.  Not much hardware design (off-the-shelf pieces appear to be plugged together and existing hardware modified), and some software design (to glue everything together) inside.  Nice industrial design outside though.

The app is a different story.  It may have been completely redesigned -- or not.

Mike

I remember the early days of the DCS APP I would video flaws in the app that I discovered and send them to MTH.  I’d get a thank you and we’ll look into it but I don’t think they ever fixed anything.  Well it’s been years since I’ve used the app.  Still on my phone and no plans to open it anytime soon.  So good luck, another part of MTH that’s in a black hole somewhere.

@Hudson J1e posted:

Not necessarily. Look at DCC. It is considered old technology being developed in the early 90's and it is still going strong. Technology in model trains doesn't work in the same manner like it does in other parts of life. It could be that in 20 years all O gauge trains will have a small board in them that can be run in DCS mode, Legacy mode, DCC mode, or battery power mode and it will be half the size it is today. The user will be able to choose what system they prefer. My only hope-Is that I am here to see what happens!

Lumping DCC in with DCS and TMCC is a fools errand.  DCC is an open system.  External parties can bring their stuff to the party and nicely with others.  Bluetooth and WiFi, should be this way, but are only over the short term because of evolving standards and security issues.

The app stores are a whole other ball of wax. They are a closed system that Lionel and MTH don't control.

@Hudson J1e posted:

Not necessarily. Look at DCC. It is considered old technology being developed in the early 90's and it is still going strong. Technology in model trains doesn't work in the same manner like it does in other parts of life. It could be that in 20 years all O gauge trains will have a small board in them that can be run in DCS mode, Legacy mode, DCC mode, or battery power mode and it will be half the size it is today. The user will be able to choose what system they prefer. My only hope-Is that I am here to see what happens!

Is it going strong?? Or is it just going...

        page 1

@CALNNC posted:

Yea, I've been waiting for the software upgrade for my ZW and 1033's for decades.  I am pretty much a Luddite to everything being run by computer or cell phone,  still using a flip phone as all I ever need to do is make and receive phone calls.   I also spent a career in electronics that spanned the tube era, to solid state to LSI and uProc run everything, and today, things that used to be simple and work well have been made overly complex.  The whole idea is to have fun with this hobby no matter if it is a ZW handle or a touch screen, and every persons RR is their own.

Yep! Running trains is always fun, either conventionally or command control. 👍

@Lou1985 posted:

Control system or not fact is Lionel is making models of things in O that already have models of them, not anything new. Plus I can run 8 different locomotives with TMCC or DCS at the same time, so nothing new there either.

I don't buy locomotives because of a specific control system or because they are a specific brand. I have locomotives with TMCC, Legacy, and DCS. I buy something because it fits with my modeling.

Buying locomotives all with the same control system is part of me keeping it simple for my layout. If it isn’t in Legacy now it will be probably happen later so I can wait.
However, if MTH would do a limited run of the  Central Maine and Quebec #1006 I would buy it in a heartbeat, no matter what the control system it has. So even I would make an exception for a road name that I really want. Any dealers willing to sponsor it?

https://www.pinterest.com/amp/pin/576883033497363711/

https://www.google.com/search?...vid:LsUNoZORc_c,st:0

@BobbyD posted:

Yep! Running trains is always fun, either conventionally or command control. 👍

OP here... agree with this. I run DCS, TMCC and (rarely) conventional. I just want to know what's up with MTH R&D and having lots of experience building phone apps and more want to see things kept current. I am independent (trains, phone OS and politics) and believe competition and choice are good things to have. I don't mind the Lionel talk in this topic though... it motivated me to dive into the latest Lionel catalog, and... uh-oh... I primarily model N&W and I don't have an A class. Looks like a pre-order for that (and CAB-3) needs to be discussed with the wife. Serendipity strikes though: She's currently on an all expenses paid vacation in the Mayan Riviera with girlfriends, so I have serious spouse points for (the other) objects of my desire.

@Tim B posted:

OP here... agree with this. I run DCS, TMCC and (rarely) conventional. I just want to know what's up with MTH R&D and having lots of experience building phone apps and more want to see things kept current. I am independent (trains, phone OS and politics) and believe competition and choice are good things to have. I don't mind the Lionel talk in this topic though... it motivated me to dive into the latest Lionel catalog, and... uh-oh... I primarily model N&W and I don't have an A class. Looks like a pre-order for that (and CAB-3) needs to be discussed with the wife. Serendipity strikes though: She's currently on an all expenses paid vacation in the Mayan Riviera with girlfriends, so I have serious spouse points for (the other) objects of my desire.

There you go!! Just pre order it.. she will understand!😉

Post
This forum is sponsored by MTH Electric Trains

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×