Well I got my money back for the LC+ GP7. I gave it to a Lionel tech friend so he can order and install a ERR 4.1 command board for my Williams BL-2 the already has a Railsounds board in it.
JohnGaltLine posted:DennyM posted:Now there is a whole new set of problems. I can't express how angry I am right now.
Could you expand on what the new problems are?
JGL
John it doesn't matter now I got rid of the LC+.
Shrug. Figured it might matter for other folks looking at the product to know if it has design flaws.
JGL
Landsteiner posted:"I'm still not happy with Lionel. I feel like they don't care or they are hiring incompetent people."
Don't you think judging an entire company and dozens of people based upon one lemon of a product is a bit harsh?
Don't get me wrong, one really, really bad experience can sour one on a person, an institution, a country. But
statistically speaking, a product that doesn't work is just a product that doesn't work. For every LC+ that is a lemon
there are probably a hundred that work well. For every repair that fails, there are probably a hundred that turn out
fine. You were almost certainly the victim of bad luck (a stochastic process--immutable and unpredictable), not a company's failure or people's incompetence.
Mine is not the only issue. I bought that engine from a club member who is in the LCCA. Every GP7 he has gotten for the LCCA has had issues. Not to mention the numerous complaints I have seen posted on this website and OGR about LionChief. So yeah I'm harsh. If it were just mine it's a lemon. When it's several, it's lack of quality control especially when they deny there is a problem. One of my club members just got a LC+ steamer. I don't remember which one, but now it won't move. Brand new and it won't move. The running joke is "run them while you can".
"Not to mention the numerous complaints I have seen posted on this website and OGR about LionChief."
Don't own a GP7 so I cannot comment about that specific model. I haven't seen numerous complaints about LC+ in general and I read all posts about it as I'm interested in the technology. A few complaints yes, but almost all products have a 1-5% failure rate in use, and that's expected.
I haven't read anything from the LCCA about systematic problems with the GP7s they had produced in Boston and Maine colors. Even conceding a possible design or manufacturing problem with that particular loco, I see absolutely no credible evidence that LC+ or LC are problematic technologies. And my own experience, and that of the dealers I'm familiar with, contrary to yours, is vastly different from the picture you paint, for what it's worth. I have no concerns about buying a LC+ or LC loco or set from a reputable dealer in the future.
What is the number of people having problems? 10?, 25?, 50?, 100?, over 1000?
I had a issue with my first one so I am one. My second one which is the same works fine.
Would there not be some kind of a recall on these if they were all flawed?
IMO, LC/LC+ doesn't rate any higher in the complaint department than anything else around here, the complaints appear to be pretty evenly divided across the board. Nothing is perfect 100% of the time and problems are to be expected with a certain percentage of any products available.
I ask for details to help determine what is going on. Is there a problem with just this particular engine, the GP7? Is there a problem with LionChief electronics in general? Is the problem with low-end locomotives? Perhaps something that would still be there in a conventional version without the electronics package? Could there be a problem in the shipping and handling of the products that leads to problems? Is there bad quality control somewhere along the line allowing improperly built engines out to market?
Having started a topic a while back directly asking about LC/+ quality and reliability I could find no evidence at that time of any serious problems with the product line. I've since heard of some issues with the gear box locking up on one model, which I think was the GP7 but I do not recall for sure.
One forum member has recently stated that they are regularly having to service LC/+ engines in their shop, but there has been no detail given of what this service entails. There are many of us that really are impressed with LC/+ so far and I'm sure all of us would find detailed accounts of any issues helpful.
JGL
I only have a sample of one, my Camelback. Mine runs well, but I've seen enough reports of issues with the truck gears of the dual-motor diesels that I'm a bit reluctant to consider those.
My LC+ Camelback was in the shop off and on for 6 (!!) months. I was determined that it be fixed since it was under warranty. Still is til July. Now that it's fixed, it runs as it should and does everything it's supposed to.
I had my Camelback at the NJ-HR layout yesterday, I did some photo runs with it. I'm going to process the results and post them when I get a chance.
It is a single integrated board, so you will see a higher replacement need in general. If motor driver issue, smoke failure, sound failure, all would require a new board. So there have been some issues and some parts supply issues with boards too. So maybe it is seeing a higher failure rate than normal. G
This is from the owners manual for a Lion Chief Plus GP7:
LionChief Troubleshooting Problem: The locomotive stopped dead: LionChief Plus locomotives are equipped with “motor lock out” technology. This means that if the internal electronics do not detect the motor feedback signal (a function of the constant speed control system) within a two-second period of being given a command to start moving (or has been under- way for a period of time) the motor will lock itself out. This is done to prevent the locomotive from losing control. Solution: Simply return the Lionchief dial to the center (stopped) position, if using Remote mode or cycle the power on your conventional transformer. Once you tell the locomotive to begin moving it will. If the problem persists you likely have a loose electrical connector inside the locomotive and it should be taken to a local Factory Trained Authorized Service Station or contact Lionel Customer Service directly.
This happened with the first one I had right out of the box. It would not reset. I returned it to the dealer for a refund.
So when the motor locks up could this be why?
JohnGaltLine posted:Shrug. Figured it might matter for other folks looking at the product to know if it has design flaws.
JGL
Good point. Okay, first there was a problem with one of the motors out of the box. Lionel fixed it and it ran great for a while then the same problem came back. this time I let my friend who is a authorized Lionel tech fix it. Again it work good for a while. Then it started blowing the fuses that were in-line from my PW-ZW to the track. My LT friend had to send the board to Lionel. They sent a new one back. It ran good for about five hours and then started shutting off and restarting over and over. At this point I was done with it and was able to get my money back which I'm using to get a ERR board for my Williams BL-2. Maybe I'll find another LC+ at York. I have heard other complaints about the LC+ GP7 engines.
