New Camelback Legacy Locomotives not responding to my Cab2 remote

Well, the obvious issue is not having the right TMCC address to connect to them with the Legacy system.

Turn the RUN/PGM switch to PGM.  On the Legacy CAB2, Select ENG, ##, SET.  The ## is the desired TMCC two digit address.  When you press SET, the whistle should sound.  Turn the RUN/PGM switch to RUN, and then use ENG, ## to select the engine.  You should be off and running.

I forgot to ask, what are the exact models of these engines?  If they're TMCC models, there is an additional step required.

Hi @gunrunnerjohn, Thank you for the fast response.  They are the Legacy Camelbacks released last year.   Interesting additional data (maybe not interesting).  I tried the process of setting the engine IDs and when I push set, no sound (whistle/horn).  Another question, perhaps related… When I power up the track to 18, no sound from the tenders.  If I then pick then up  and put them back on the track, then sounds at least begin…

Try ENG 99 and see what happens. Lionel uses that number for the service dept, so they don't have to guess or change the number you set it to.

Doug

Hi @trnluvr, thanks for joining in! Obviously I need the help.  I turned on the track, got it to 18 and pressed ENG 99 hit startup and no reaction.  
Just to make sure it still had some life, I accessed it again from the Bluetooth app and it worked fine.  I have definitely not created a bonding relationship between these two locomotives and my Cab2…

Does the Bluetooth switch need to be in the off position when using cab 2?

Hi @romiller49, the manual said that both controllers can work at the same time.. However, I tested with Bluetooth off any  and had the same lack of activity.  I’m staying optimistic that I caused this and not these trains need some type of repair… I can’t believe both would have an issue… Thanks for the suggestion!

The BT switch does not affect Legacy command operation.

Hi @gunrunnerjohn  So, being new to Legacy,  When I power on the track, neither of the two tenders start up if they are attached to the engine.  If the tenders are sitting alone on the track, they startup up when the track is turned on.  If they are attached to the engine, I need to lift the tender off the track and then put it back down to have it start up.  Not sure if that helps… Just trying to understand why the locomotive likes Bluetooth, but not my Cab2..

That's correct operation, the Legacy locomotives should come up dark and silent if there is a TMCC/Legacy track signal on the tracks when powered up.

Your problem sounds like they're not responding to the Legacy commands.  If you've tried ENG #99 without success, something is wrong with the engines.  That assumes other Legacy/TMCC engines work normally on the same tracks with the same command system.

As mentioned above, do other engines run with the same controller on the same track? Providing the item number always helps too, especially if an engine has been produced multiple times.

@gunrunnerjohn, @BobbyD These 2 camelbacks are my only legacy engines.  

Well, you first have to narrow down the options, how about taking at least one of these to another layout with TMCC/Legacy and seeing if it's a layout issue or a locomotive issue.  Given the fact that two of them are failing, my guess is there is an issue with the command system or your operation of it.

@gunrunnerjohn Agreed, I’m more inclined to believe it is me or the layout vs 2 new locomotives… I’ll take one back to the shop I purchased them from and have them test it.  They are good people….

A good first step, and I'd take both of them with you.  If both work at the shop, then we can work on why they don't work at your location.

I reread your first post and you say your LCS devices are working fine, so that tells me the remote is talking to the base and sending commands to them thru the serial data side.

How do you have the single wire from the base connected?

Doug

The engines are coming up dark and silent, so it appears he has a track signal.  Also other stuff he's running like the command switches are also using the track signal.

@gunrunnerjohn, Yeah, you are right I should bring both.  Forgive my ignorance, but if the locomotives coming up silent is “normal” for my configuration and I’m able to control the TMCC Gantry crane as ENG 30… I’m not sure why the locomotives are somewhat connected by coming up silent, but not reacting to any commands.  I tried to do a reset of the locomotive and that that did not go well either.. When I tried to assign the Train ID I did not get a whistle.. Sorry for what might be dumb questions.   I enjoy trains and while I want these to work, I also what to know why they don’t work…  Your shop is about an hour away from me, based on how I do with my local shop I may drop by…

If you want to drop by sometime, send me an email to my profile address and I'll supply you with an address.  I can positively tell you if your locomotives are working.  If you do that, I'd consider bringing the Legacy system along as well, that can also be tested and configured.  Given the other facts here, that should be enough to surely get them working or positively identify what the exact issue is.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The engines are coming up dark and silent, so it appears he has a track signal.  Also other stuff he's running like the command switches are also using the track signal.

John, I didn't realize he had command control switches and assumed he was using the ASC-2 for them. I was just thinking maybe he had a bad or loose connection and making the signal weak. When powering the track the engine see's just enough signal to realize it's in the command environment but not enough for commands?

I wonder if the run/program switches are backwards.

On the bright side he gets to see your beautiful layout and run some trains.

Doug

@trnluvr posted:

On the bright side he gets to see your beautiful layout and run some trains.

Maybe even the Camelbacks!

Hey Guys (@gunrunnerjohn & @trnluvr), After @gunrunnerjohn’s last note it made me think perhaps I need to deconstruct my layout and try and find the culprit.   When I did that, it seems my Legacy Powermaster (w/2x 180 Bricks) was the problem child.  I replaced (for testing purposes) the Powermaster with my CW-80 and now everything works.  I realize that is not a long term solution, but at least I know the Camelbacks work!  Now to understand the Legacy Powermaster…  Who’s idea was it to jump on all this cool train technology  

Not sure why the Legacy Powermaster blocks TMCC signals, does it work otherwise?

I think I may have a similar problem. My Lionel #1967 NYC steam engine does similar except that it runs forward and reverse ONLY when I push and hold down the Boost slide/button on the remote. If I let it go the engine continues on for a few feet then comes to a stop until I push / hold 'Boost' agaim.
I have another engine that this happens with also (the President Harrison steamer). They run but only but very intermitantly with the red speed control wheel. And when I say very intermittentlay I mean like maybe once a month it will somehow connect using the red wheel but not for long. I can spin the wheel all afternoon and nothing and from inches away from bothe engine and base unit too.
As I rotate the red wheel on the remote clockwise I occasionally see that the 3rd light (of the center 3 lighs on the console)  blinks occasionally while I'm turning the wheel but most of the time I get no engine movement. The sounds and lights all work fine though and smoke too. I get the station announcements also.
This situation is beginiing to remind me of the old Bugs Bunny / Gremlin routine, and guess hwo plays Bugs ?  I'm just about at the point he was when he pulled out the hammer.
Anyhow, anyone have any ideas what could be wrong ? I have the Lioinel Legacy running through (or with ?) my MTH Z 4000. I also use the MTH TIU (one wire from the Lionel to the track) set up. I've tried re-setting them to factory (both engines), erassing everything in memory and re loading the engines and still no luck.
I've wondered just how that light on the Legacy base should look when one is spinning the red wheel clockwise to accelarate the engine ie: Is the purple/blueish light (that center set of 3 lights / light to the right end of the 3) supposed to flash/blink continuosly while the red wheel on the remote is being rotated or should it be a solid lit purple/blue or what ?
I tried to include all the info I can think of but its late, I'm exhausted and it won't suprise me to find out that I've left out some crucial point when describing my set up and / or actions needed to diagnose but I did my level best. I'd greatly appreciate any ideas !!
Thanks in advance.

How did you set up the powermaster when you installed it?

Doug

I would bring it to a hobby shop that has a Legacy system and start from there.

Multiple locomotives malfunctioning clearly indicates to me that it's most likely a layout issue and not the locomotives.  I'd connect the transformer directly to the track and see if it works that way.

As to the set up, I just followed the instructions. I just rememberd that the President Harrison engine worked fine when I first got it. What I'm wondering about is does the hand held remote and the base work together properly judging by my description- that the light on the base (that 3rd light that blinks as I increase the speed with the red wheel on the remote) ? The Lionel remote was a '2nd hand' purchase off of epay about a year ago.
I just noticed that when I turn the wheel couter clockwaise that the purple / blue light on the base blinks approx 50% more of the time. As I turn it counter, the base seems to communicate (if that is what the rapidly blinking light is suppose to indicate) more than when I turn it clockwise BUT there is no more response when being spun counter. Does anyopne know if that light rapidly blinking as I described in my first post what others see when they operate theirs ? What do others see when watching the base unit while increasing/decreasing the speed with the large red wheel on the remote ? Mine very intermitently lights at all, even when I hold the remote right against the antena of the base unit and the engine - all 3 only inches apart. I'm hoping that someone here who has the remote themselves can tell me what they see when they turn the red wheel in either direction - what does that 3rd light on the remote indicate and how does it work  on theirs - does it blink continuosly as the wheel is being spun ? If yes, then there is my problem. Maybe too much info so I'll break it down to this:

When turning the wheel to move the engine, what do you see happen on the base unit (the indicator light(s) ?

I live in a remote area, there are no hobby shops close by although there is one maybe an hour or so drive from me. I'm hoping to avoid that right now, maybe when the weather improves. Not lookig for sympathy but I am what the kids call 'old' with sig health issues. I drive as little as possible. Thanks again.

When I spin the throttle wheel, the right hand LED blinks for each detent of the throttle in either direction.  As long as I'm moving the big red knob, the right hand LED is blinking.

Good morning gunrunnerjohn and thank you for your response (as well as PRR1644A). I keep two power connectors wired into my Z4000 so I can quickly go from conventuinal to digital.
I just tried the conventional hook up again and both engines fire up, start up sounds etc and my old school Lionels run just fine.

And don't forget, both the #1967 and the President Harrison engines run forward and reverse when I push down and 'up' the 'Boost' button, as long as I hold it. The second I remove my finger from the Boost button, the engines slow down and stop.

I have to believe this is something with the layout wiring/configuration and not the locomotives.

Ok, thank you very much for your time and consideration.

If the next time someone who has a Lionel Legacy remote set up uses the remote, could you please look down at the base and tell me what the lights do, if anything,  when you spin the large red wheel on the remote (that makes the engine 'go' forward/reverse) clock or counter clockwise ? Does it blink rapidly or stay a solid color ? If so (lights up), is it contuous or blinking light? Thank you again.

@4_Sticks posted:

As to the set up, I just followed the instructions. I just rememberd that the President Harrison engine worked fine when I first got it. What I'm wondering about is does the hand held remote and the base work together properly judging by my description- that the light on the base (that 3rd light that blinks as I increase the speed with the red wheel on the remote) ? The Lionel remote was a '2nd hand' purchase off of epay about a year ago.
I just noticed that when I turn the wheel couter clockwaise that the purple / blue light on the base blinks approx 50% more of the time. As I turn it counter, the base seems to communicate (if that is what the rapidly blinking light is suppose to indicate) more than when I turn it clockwise BUT there is no more response when being spun counter. Does anyopne know if that light rapidly blinking as I described in my first post what others see when they operate theirs ? What do others see when watching the base unit while increasing/decreasing the speed with the large red wheel on the remote ? Mine very intermitently lights at all, even when I hold the remote right against the antena of the base unit and the engine - all 3 only inches apart. I'm hoping that someone here who has the remote themselves can tell me what they see when they turn the red wheel in either direction - what does that 3rd light on the remote indicate and how does it work  on theirs - does it blink continuosly as the wheel is being spun ? If yes, then there is my problem. Maybe too much info so I'll break it down to this:

When turning the wheel to move the engine, what do you see happen on the base unit (the indicator light(s) ?

I live in a remote area, there are no hobby shops close by although there is one maybe an hour or so drive from me. I'm hoping to avoid that right now, maybe when the weather improves. Not lookig for sympathy but I am what the kids call 'old' with sig health issues. I drive as little as possible. Thanks again.

Does that mean you already had a base unit and then added a remote ?

If so, are the base and remote both set to the same channel ?

They both came together in the same box but 'used'. At one point I did go through trying different channels as I do have several X-10 units around the place and a Chromecast for my pc / TVs. I've made sure they were disconnected and then tried going through the channels but I have to say that I wasn't real confident / confortable trying this.  Unfortunatly I can't recall now if I tried this prior to buying the Lionel #1987 and/or Harrison engines.
I'm still interested in hearing what others experience when using theirs  in terms of the lights on the base unit. I guess I presumed that others also use these Lionel Legacy remotea and could tell me what they see on their base when they run their engines

@4_Sticks posted:

I'm still interested in hearing what others experience when using theirs  in terms of the lights on the base unit. I guess I presumed that others also use these Lionel Legacy remotea and could tell me what they see on their base when they run their engines

Here's my observations of the lights on the base:

Green light ( left of center) constantly on.

Yellow light (center) 1 blink on power up and then dark.

Red light (right of center) Your calling this purple/blueish and what your actually seeing is the glow from the fading legacy backlight led and not the actual led for the indicator.

If I press and hold the boost/brake the red light flashes rapidly,release and light goes dark.

Like Gunrunner  posted earlier turn the red knob 1 detent I get 1 flash. Now if I constantly spin it has a constant flash till I stop.

Doug

Thank you trnluvr, that answers my question. My problem has to do with the function of the large , red knob on my remote. Something I remembered last night is that when using the remote to name / number my engines, when turning the wheel each 'click' of the ones I saw on the 'tube seemed to cause a change on the remotes display. Mine doesn't respond like this, it needs several spins to change each letter / number. Its just not as responsive as those I saw on the youtube instructional video. I'm guessing that it has to do with the actual circut or the wheel itself.
That it moves the engines when I push the Boost button kind of atests to this. To be clear, I don't see happen on my base unit what you see on yours.  Looks like another epay purchase mystery solved. I should know better by now but dang it, the price was so good I just had to hit thge 'BIN' yaddayadda. Someone recouped their loss by passing it on to an unsuspecting dummy (me). I think I left him good Feedback too. Oh, the pain ....
Thank you all who took the time to think about my issue and respond here, much appreciated !

Send the CAB2 back to Lionel, right now they're fixing them on an extended warranty.  Call service, and in a few weeks you'll be running your Camelbacks.

Hi @gunrunnerjohn and @trnluvr, Sorry for the silence since my last post.  I was on vacation and every time i grabbed my laptop I got “The look”.  You guys have been great.  So… When I light up the track with the Powerhouse (18.94), the track inspector vehicle works (just purchased one).  The Camelback sits there in silence.   When I provide power via my CW-80 and power the track to 17.75 the Camelback works just fine as well as the inspection vehicle.   I’m not sure if it matters, but I connect the Legacy base to the outside rail and the power’s ground is connected to the inside rail and of course the actual power to the center rail (either power source).  Thoughts?

Well if everything runs as it should with the CW-80 it has to be the Powermaster 360.

I see there's 3 switches on the side the middle one being run/program,make sure that's in the run position and the third switch is cmd position.

Doug

I thought some time back we were going to lose the PowerMaster and see if the Legacy locomotives ran without it?  If we're still trying with that in the picture, we're spinning our wheels!

Update?

Doug

Hopefully I've chosen the proper place to post this:
As I had described earlier (previous page) I was having problems with my Legacy remote and could not run my Lionel engines, some of which I had purchased after the problem started so I never was able to try out by most recent (eBay) additions  to find out if I had made a wise purchase or not,  so I was really frustrated.
Long story short, I followed your recommendations here, sent the unit off to Lionel, fingers crossed, and had a really great experience with them !  Whenever I called down to N.C. to see where we were at I mostly spoke with  'Heather' who was probably the nicest, most reassuring and helpful warranty dept / rep I've ever had the pleasurer of dealing with - thank you Heather (and one other lady I spoke to once and who was also nice as can be but whose name escapes me right this minute. my apologies - but I'm OLD) !!
The turn around time was equally surprising. I had heard predictions of 4 to 5 weeks before my remote would be returned to me but nope, that was not the case.  If I have my dates correct, they received it on May 9th and it was back on my porch, repaired, this morning, May 21 !!
One of the voices in my head, lol, was warning me 'Too good to be true, wait 'til its hooked back up and successfully running train again before you start your grinnin' ear to ear.  5 minutes after opening the box the unit was ready for its test run and sure as sheet, my Lionel New York Central #5344 was a tearin' 'round my track a whistlin and a clangin' and smokin' like a like a bat outta **** !! Truth be told, I enjoy them the most when they are barely moving - like molasses off the end of a stick, passengers or freight in tow, as they pull away from the station or roundhouse rather than as if they were running in the Indy 500 (like many I've see on the 'tube). Its still early, I've only tried the one engine so far and for only twice around the layout before coming in here to share my exuberance with y'all while its still fresh in my mind.
My, I do go on, don't I ?
Again a big THANKS to everybody who helped in some way !!
Sticks

Glad to hear a happy ending, and it was cheap as well.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

"... and it was cheap as well."

Ya know, that was the most surprising part. I had nothing, no instructions, warranty, receipt but yet was able to get it fixed just that simple. If only car manufacturers, or most products for that matter, came with the same warranty Lionel offers !!
It didn't cost me a penny and problem taken care of just like that. Had I known this, I would have been running trains, engines that were just sitting on a shelf, months ago !! I just had no idea. Who else offers service like this these days ?
As a kid, back in the '50s, I had all 'American Flyer'. I had a steamer / chrome New Haven line passenger set that was just gorgeous but went to who knows where when Mom did a thorough spring cleaning job one day back in the '60s.
Anyway, every kid knows 'Lionel' no matter what they owned or didn't own but I wonder how many know that Lionel offers such service ? I mean talk about standing behind your product not to mention customer service ! I know, I probably sound like I must have some other motive for this gloating, whatever, but nope, I'm just one of many anonymous, average guys out here with no other motive than to just share a great experience with others, its a simple as that. Zero to gain.
Thanks OGR / gunrunnerjohn,trnluvr,PRR1644,Richie C. for your time. Bravo Lionel.

BTW, I thought I posted this question a little while back but can't find any evidence that I did. Maybe I posted it in the wrong (incorrect) place ?  Hope I'm not breaking any rules about where to post questions like this so here it goes:

If the 'Pennsylvania Railroad' is the correct name for that company then why is their logo 'PRR' (two 'R's) instead of just 'PR'  ?

Its probably an old story, the question asked and answered a million times already but I've never seen it asked before, so ....

anybody ?

@4_Sticks posted:

If the 'Pennsylvania Railroad' is the correct name for that company then why is their logo 'PRR' (two 'R's) instead of just 'PR'  ?

RR RailRoad

Yup, I understand that but the word 'railroad' is still one word. The FBI, I know I don't have to tell ya, or the CIA etc.  All separate words whereas 'Railroad' is only one word, ergo .... no second 'R' necessary. But who am I to say ? I've never been a a stockholder in the company (assuming it traded publicly) or on the BOD or even an exec.
I was just sermizing that it was very possible that maybe someone screwed up back in the beginning days of the company but since all the adverts were printed and sent out across the  country, execs business cards having been made up by the tens of  thousands and so on, someone high up the company latter decided that it was too expensive and too late to start all over with the correction and just hoped no one noticed or would care.
I'm one of those who really doesn't care but I found it curious and thought that maybe there was a great old story about those early days and the nephew of some big shot was hired, given a simple task they figured he could handle, and this was the result !! That old 'nepotism' gag was a regular joke back in the good old days of movies and tv.
I was just bored and lookin' to have a laugh or two. Little did I know that within a few hours of typing it I would be in my local hospital dealing with 'old mans' (painful) problems - hence my just getting back to you now  (I'm back home).
** Tip of the day gentleman: Drink PLENTY of WATER and hope that you never have to pass an 8mm stone !!

@4_Sticks posted:

Yup, I understand that but the word 'railroad' is still one word. The FBI, I know I don't have to tell ya, or the CIA etc.  All separate words whereas 'Railroad' is only one word, ergo .... no second 'R' necessary. But who am I to say ? I've never been a a stockholder in the company (assuming it traded publicly) or on the BOD or even an exec.

Well, you did ask why it was PRR, and I answered that query.  As to why they did that with the name, I have no idea.  I suspect it was because PR didn't have the ring they wanted, to the added the extra R.

I’ve found that all my TMCC and Legacy locomotives run better with my Cab2 remote if I turn off the Bluetooth on the locomotives that have Bluetooth.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, you did ask why it was PRR, and I answered that query.  As to why they did that with the name, I have no idea.  I suspect it was because PR didn't have the ring they wanted, to the added the extra R.

"I suspect it was because PR didn't have the ring they wanted, to the added the extra R."

Actually, this was the only realistic answer I could come up with myself.  Like I said, I know nothing about the company other than that famous 'PRR' so for all I knew there was a long passed around story of how it occured that I wasn't aware of.
I wonder if someone earned themself a promotion or a nice raise for the idea. Those two hard 'r's in the word certainly standout, no doubt about it and I know of at least one other logo that uses that same logic although its not coming to mind right at this (senior) moment.
"Now we know the rest of the story ..."

Thanks for replying.