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Dominic Mazoch posted:

I think items, especially high end should be painted according to any prototype out there or paint chip, balanced to normal daylight.  And put that notice in the catalog, and on the net version.  

Even something painted the right colors ballanced for daylight is going to look different under a light nallanced for something else.

This way, Lionel, or any importer can cut down problems from the get go.

Now, if Lionel wants to produce liveries never done, they can go for it....

I'm EXTREMELY happy and very thankful for so much of the new scale products Lionel has come out with. (new diesel tooling, scale autoracks, hi-cube auto parts boxcars)

But the color and graphics problems have been a huge issue for me. 

I'm a graphic designer by trade, and nothing makes me more frustrated than paying big bucks for models with stretched out or squashed logo graphics, and really bad color choices.
I'm with you on the "balanced daylight" issue too. Their colors are often way too dark and over-saturated.
Almost all the manufacturers in other scales understand this. Maybe Lionel should by some Atheran, Atlas, and Scale Trains HO models for accurate color reference?

I'm looking forward to the new catalog. I hope to see some GP40-2LW units in the CN zebra scheme and maybe some GTW GP38-2s



Arthur posted:
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I hope that they have the catalogs in store in time for the "live" release. I know a couple of years ago it was some time after "live" that dealers finally got hard copy catalogs in stock. Some creative things came about by not having them there. I doubt that this would be an issue to most of us, I usually bring a typed out list with page numbers included with everything else that matters so nothing gets missed 

I really do hope there are some great things coming even if they aren't my cup of tea. Some of the releases over the past few years were really great and even if I didn't buy them, I appreciated what they were. I am a steamhead, and always will be but there are a few Diesel's I would buy if they ran them.

I could always use more cabooses, tank cars(older ones from the 1920-1940's) and who doesn't like a bunch of good boxcars. There are probably a few other things I would like to see as far as rolling stock, but I usually let the catalog try and dazzle me with those.

A few good steam engines would be great whether VL or Legacy, but whatever they come up with could be great. Not sure what they will be, but if NYC or PRR, I'll definitely be considering it that much is certain. There are a few other RR's I like, but they will have to compete with the aforementioned to see what I get.

An employee at Trainland / Trainworld told me hard copy available in February /

I betcha we will see hard copies at Da Big E!

"Read My Lips!  No.  New.  Tooling!"  At least not in die-cast metal, anyway.  Those days are over, perhaps for a long time to come.  

Some trivia to pass the time (and fuel the speculation)   What was the last really new mold for an O gauge steam loco, and when was it first catalogued?  I feel like it might have been the Legacy Milwaukee S3, or maybe the MTH Premier L4 Mohawk.  IIRC, both were circa 2009.  Did any company introduce something all-new in die-cast metal after that?

Last edited by Ted S
Ted S posted:

"Read My Lips!  No.  New.  Tooling!"  At least not in die-cast metal, anyway.  Those days are over, perhaps for a long time to come.  

Some trivia to pass the time (and fuel the speculation)   What was the last really new mold for an O gauge steam loco, and when was it first catalogued?  I feel like it might have been the Legacy Milwaukee S3, or maybe the MTH Premier L4 Mohawk.  IIRC, both were circa 2009.  Did any company introduce something all-new in die-cast metal after that?

Not steam but the MTH 44 ton switcher. All die cast. 

Rider Sandman posted:
Ted S posted:

You know that it will feature Santa Fe 3700 class Northerns with Legacy.  I'm sure the "Blackbonnet" being offered by Pat's Trains isn't a one-off!

Hello Ted. I believe Pat’s are based on the Northerns that appeared in 2019v2.  

Having said that, it’s definitely time for some leaks to start showing up!

Lionel did a Legacy Santa Fe 3700 class (3751) cataloged back in 2012 Vol. 2.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:
Arthur posted:
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I hope that they have the catalogs in store in time for the "live" release. I know a couple of years ago it was some time after "live" that dealers finally got hard copy catalogs in stock. Some creative things came about by not having them there. I doubt that this would be an issue to most of us, I usually bring a typed out list with page numbers included with everything else that matters so nothing gets missed 

I really do hope there are some great things coming even if they aren't my cup of tea. Some of the releases over the past few years were really great and even if I didn't buy them, I appreciated what they were. I am a steamhead, and always will be but there are a few Diesel's I would buy if they ran them.

I could always use more cabooses, tank cars(older ones from the 1920-1940's) and who doesn't like a bunch of good boxcars. There are probably a few other things I would like to see as far as rolling stock, but I usually let the catalog try and dazzle me with those.

A few good steam engines would be great whether VL or Legacy, but whatever they come up with could be great. Not sure what they will be, but if NYC or PRR, I'll definitely be considering it that much is certain. There are a few other RR's I like, but they will have to compete with the aforementioned to see what I get.

An employee at Trainland / Trainworld told me hard copy available in February /

I betcha we will see hard copies at Da Big E!

I would imagine February is way too late. They had that issue a few years back where the dealers gave the heck and a half. I would doubt they would want a repeat of that.

I would believe that catalogs should be in dealer's hands this week at the latest and they'll wait to show them at least until next Monday. So, we should definitely see something out there in leaks as said above if someone gets a copy or brave.

Lionel has continually done new tooling on a limited basis throughout the last decade.  If you are looking for diecast steamers,  there have been some since 2009.  I don't have the time or interest in looking at all the catalogs, but it's there, at least according to Lionel.  Most recently the 2019 hybrid 4-4-0 steam locos for the Golden Spike models and and the 2018 SW7 diesel. Not entirely diecast metal to be sure, but new tooling is expensive for the hybrids and plastic diesels and that's just the last year.  In 2016 there were the SD45 and NW2. And for steam, the T1.  And that's just the last three years.  Not sure why one would think the only manufacturer doing any substantial new tooling isn't doing new tooling .

Last edited by Landsteiner

It’s always an exciting time when Lionel brings out their Signature Catalog of the Year. 2020, Wow, maybe a brass hybrid VL Hudson? I would be a player for a Legacy 700E Hudson. I’ve had Visionline hudsons and sold them because of the whistle. I hope they offer some nice new products, it’s always very interesting. I always find something in each catalog that fits in with my layout, hoping this one follows the same pattern. One thing for certain, BTO allows us to save our funds until delivery. When ones retired, that’s a plus. Good luck finding something nice for your collections. This is a nice thread. Happy Railroading 

Ted S posted:

Some trivia to pass the time (and fuel the speculation)   What was the last really new mold for an O gauge steam loco, and when was it first catalogued?  I feel like it might have been the Legacy Milwaukee S3, or maybe the MTH Premier L4 Mohawk.  IIRC, both were circa 2009.  Did any company introduce something all-new in die-cast metal after that?

Lionel's heavy mikados circa 2014?

Harry's Trains posted:
 
"Lionel's heavy mikados circa 2014?"
 

I think Harry might have the answer and I might add, this is an excellent model (boiler) and mechanicals from Lionel that seems to not have sold well. The drive train could have been more detailed, but for the price, it is a very nice effort. This was offered in many (6 or 7)? Road names if I remember correctly.

Another example of hooting and hollering about new tooling that the vocal minority said is needed, but sales fell short. Oh well, you can’t say Lionel did not try on that one. I will add the last run of the light Mikado in this mix as well.

Charlie

@Harry's Trains the Heavy Mikado upper boiler was new.  The entire lower half, including the tiny backwards motor was reused from the Light Mikado (which was originally a K-Line mold.)

@Landsteiner I think you're right.  The Reading T1 was probably the last new steam loco.  They re-used a few pieces from the Milwaukee S3, because the boxpok wheel pattern isn't exactly right for a T1, and the rear truck is definitely the same as the S3.  So it was mostly new.  That was in 2016, four years ago.  So maybe we're due !!

Last edited by Ted S
Landsteiner posted:

Important to distinguish that some of the problems (perhaps most) are real (mechanical failures; clearcut discrepancies of color) and some reflect the (sometimes unreasonable) expectations of hobbyists.  The latter examples includes the recent insistence that "my view of what stainless steel should look like is right and Lionel's approach is wrong" and "my view of what shade of red is appropriate for the N&W J is different from photos that Lionel used."  The former are real problems that everyone can agree on (mechanical failure) and the latter are more matters of opinion (or user error/irrationality).

Sorry I just can't let this one pass without comment.  While there can be some opinion of color shades that are slightly off, the color of a lot of Lionel product has been inconsistent and in the case of the J incorrect.  I'm a big Lionel fan but there was a definite issue with the stripe.  Please don't write off those that had a concern as irrational or color blind.  That's all I'm going to say because we've discussed this to death.

Now that I have that say, I am looking forward to the catalog.  I am also looking forward to a better year for Lionel.  I believe that they will overcome some of the issues, whether perceived or real, from last year and have a great selection for us to purchase.  The rumor that I have heard makes me excited for a starter set for the first time...probably ever.  While I am definitely not in for a big scales engine, although you never say never, I am looking forward to the catalog to see if there are any sleeper hits like the Santa Shay I purchased.  I am also always open for more PE scale cars.

No wonder that there isn't any new tooling based on some of the comments above and on other posts.

I realize that $1,000.00+ per engine is expensive.  Maybe the middleman should be cut out on some new releases.  How long can the same engines continue to be offered each year.  Most members already have them.

Sunset 3rd rail continues to offer new steam engines  (new tooling) but at a firm price of $1499.00 or higher and almost always sell out.  A well detailed engine is a work of art

This is worry for train manufacturers.  Why are dyes/molds so expensive

Would it cost less to produce a steam engine in plastic?  Almost all diesels are plastic and continue to sell.

I realize that the aging of members has something to do with it (and therefore part of the problem).

Just my .02 cents.  Keep on truckin!

 

daylight posted:

This is worry for train manufacturers.  Why are dyes/molds so expensive

Would it cost less to produce a steam engine in plastic?  Almost all diesels are plastic and continue to sell.


 

Tooling is one of the most expensive parts of the manufacturing process, also steam locomotives use many more mechanical parts and require much more assembly work (labor) than diesels.  Plus the more free-standing add on details vs. cast in, the higher the costs.

Plastic vs. diecast steam has been pretty much beaten to death on the forum.  The general consensus is folks prefer brass or die cast metal bodied steam locomotives.

Rusty

Putnam Division posted:

This is always an exciting time and I enjoy the anticipation!

One more week!

Peter

Like Peter.  Always an exciting anticipation.  Hopefully, not too much for me.  I have a decent amount of Pre-Orders coming down the pike for the next few months.  Hopefully done with UP Challenger and PE scale Add-On Passenger.  Now if I am lucky, the VL engine announced will not be something I have to have.  7 more days....

 

MartyE posted:
Landsteiner posted:

Important to distinguish that some of the problems (perhaps most) are real (mechanical failures; clearcut discrepancies of color) and some reflect the (sometimes unreasonable) expectations of hobbyists.  The latter examples includes the recent insistence that "my view of what stainless steel should look like is right and Lionel's approach is wrong" and "my view of what shade of red is appropriate for the N&W J is different from photos that Lionel used."  The former are real problems that everyone can agree on (mechanical failure) and the latter are more matters of opinion (or user error/irrationality).

Sorry I just can't let this one pass without comment.  While there can be some opinion of color shades that are slightly off, the color of a lot of Lionel product has been inconsistent and in the case of the J incorrect.  I'm a big Lionel fan but there was a definite issue with the stripe.  Please don't write off those that had a concern as irrational or color blind.  That's all I'm going to say because we've discussed this to death.

Now that I have that say, I am looking forward to the catalog.  I am also looking forward to a better year for Lionel.  I believe that they will overcome some of the issues, whether perceived or real, from last year and have a great selection for us to purchase.  The rumor that I have heard makes me excited for a starter set for the first time...probably ever.  While I am definitely not in for a big scales engine, although you never say never, I am looking forward to the catalog to see if there are any sleeper hits like the Santa Shay I purchased.  I am also always open for more PE scale cars.

Agreed, definitely looking forward to the catalog as well Marty. I do hope that color issues are a thing of the past, and I do hope that there is a bunch of stuff that satisfies our hunger for trains. I myself don't subscribe to rumors and hardly hear any of them unless someone pops it here. See what comes.

I pre-ordered the catalog from Mr. Muffin with expected delivery on 1/20.

If by chance it arrives earlier than that date, I will entertain any questions regarding the contents of the catalog. Answers to these question will be sent via email at the nominal cost of $100.00 per question answered. Payment through Paypal friends & family.

Thank you & have a nice day.

(Heck, I need to raise money somehow to pay for this stuff)  

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