Polar Express RPO 1927351 Blue is very light compared to 2019 V1 PE cars

I thought it looked lighter which makes me concerned for the added coaches that were offered in the 2019 Signature catalog.  This will not fly if the blue is incorrect on the coaches as well.  I bought the RPO as well and haven't had a chance to dig out the coaches.  If they are the wrong blue, I'd rather have them kept in Concord and have new shells installed before I even get them.

Can Ryan confirm if the coaches blue will match the RPO or the previous coaches? @Conrail6358

MartyE posted:

I thought it looked lighter which makes me concerned for the added coaches that were offered in the catalog.  This will not fly if the blue is incorrect.  I bought it as well and haven't had a chance to dig out the coaches.

Can Ryan confirm if the coaches blue will match the RPO or the previous coaches? @Conrail6358

I'm glad you thought so too.  The difference sticks out like spats at an Iowa picnic.  Hopefully Ryan or someone can confirm.

I noticed the pale blue color on the RPO cars as well.

FWIW: Lionel offered the scale PE RPO car to match both the scale PE 2019 cars as well as the scale PE 2009-2014 issued cars (snow on roof and no-snow, respectively).

I really hope Lionel didn't mess this up.

There's additional scale PE cars due out later this year.

Here is the comparison guys!

Well that stinks.  Hopefully the RPOs are the exception and not the rule for the add on coaches or this could be ugly.

MartyE posted:

Well that stinks.  Hopefully the RPOs are the exception and not the rule for the add on coaches or this could be ugly.

I'm with Marty.  Might be able to get away with it because it is the RPO and is the lead.  However if the other 2 are the same, it is past ugly.  Can't explain that one away.

Now I see what members post when they say paints don't match.  I've never seen it myself until last night when I put the RPO on the shelf with the original cars from 2017.

That color variation is not good. This shouldn't be rocket science. My local hardware store can match old color samples with new ones to a very exact degree.

If memory serves me correctly, the previous  cars were made in the plant that closed.

The new plant should have been able to match the colors if that’s the case. Either way it will be unacceptable to me and I’m sure many others. 

Thanks for the heads up Bryant. I hadn't had time to look at the two together until now. Note that my cars are the newer snow covered cars. Yes, this is unacceptable!!!
I really hate that this stuff is happening!

Big Jim posted:

Thanks for the heads up Bryant. I hadn't had time to look at the two together until now. Note that my cars are the newer snow covered cars. Yes, this is unacceptable!!!
I really hate that this stuff is happening!

I took some pictures of the 2017 set with the RPO.  If the other 2 add ons are similar to the RPO we will in effect have 2 sets.  Not close.  My dealer is not aware

I also wonder what the BiPolar will end up looking like. I certainly do not want to hear, "send it back for a refund" from Lionel. I would like some assurances that the new coaches and the BiPolar will match even if I have to wait longer for them.

I think also with the N&W tool car being lighter in color makes me wonder what the J will look like. 

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

artyoung posted:

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

These heavyweight cars are about 19" long coupler to coupler.

Neither the blue nor the red match. It’s not even close. I don’t want the one I pre-ordered. 

While I am concerned about this as I have a lot invested in the add on cars and BiPolar, let's try to keep the thread respectful and on topic.  So far it's been a good thread.

  I would hope we can get Ryan @Conrail6358 to comment and let us know what is happening.  Again if they end up delaying the add on coaches and the BiPolar, I'd be happy as long as they match the previous runs.

Sorry, Marty, certainly didn’t mean anything that wasn’t respectful and my comments (at least to me) seem within the context and spirit of the OP.  Specifically, I preordered a black roof RPO that was marketed as an add-on to my black roof heavyweights and the colors of the as-built product aren’t even close. Because of that, I really don’t have a use for it. 

Rider

I didn't see anything wrong with any of the comments so far but these issues tend to end up into some very understandably upset people making the thread turn ugly.  When you wait for an item and there turns out to be a very blatant mistake it can be very frustrating. I know I am currently and concerned for the other cars and BiPolar yet to be released.

Again the thread has been very good with folks just voicing their opinions and experience as well as what they intend to do.  I'm just hoping it can continue down this path so we can hopefully get some results from Lionel rather than just have the thread turning ugly and personal.  It doesn't do anyone any good if the moderators have to lock or delete it.

BobbyD posted:

artyoung posted:

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

These heavyweight cars are about 19" long coupler to coupler.

So this RPO is MUCH bigger than the smaller cars. Oh well, I'd been hoping to add one to my Williams and Lionel B&O sets after a repaint.

fwiw: I called Lionel service this morning and explained the color variations...the cordial customer service rep was able to see the difference in blue colors. He said he will check and get back to me. I encourage everyone else to do the same. The thought of returning my RPO cars to my dealer occurred to me, but I will wait until Lionel gives a reply.

I also checked my scale heavyweights as well as my traditional sized PE coaches, and they are all a deeper shade of blue.

Someone expressed to me privately that the RPO "powder blue" color as I call it, may be more representative of the actual PE car portrayed in the movie and/or book. In my opinion, this is a remote possibility. But, before I chalk the color mix-match up to a gaffe on Lionel's design or production, it should be verified, however I don't have the time right now to do so. If I don't hear back from Lionel within a week, I'll give them another call.  

Thanks for the update, Paul. The RPOs were clearly marketed as add-ons to the existing cars (both white and black roof) in both the catalog and the web shows supplementing the catalog. As such, I agree with your skepticism and simply cannot believe the colors were intentionally changed to make it “more prototypical” - especially since the “prototype” is an animated movie!  When the white roof heavyweights were announced in 2017, they were described as being more reflective of the cars from the movie (the location of the lettering changed). Given that, I would assume any further intentional changes to reflect the “prototype” would also have been specifically touted. Thanks again for making the call. 

Paul Kallus posted:

fwiw: I called Lionel service this morning and explained the color variations...the cordial customer service rep was able to see the difference in blue colors. He said he will check and get back to me. I encourage everyone else to do the same. The thought of returning my RPO cars to my dealer occurred to me, but I will wait until Lionel gives a reply.

I also checked my scale heavyweights as well as my traditional sized PE coaches, and they are all a deeper shade of blue.

Someone expressed to me privately that the RPO "powder blue" color as I call it, may be more representative of the actual PE car portrayed in the movie and/or book. In my opinion, this is a remote possibility. But, before I chalk the color mix-match up to a gaffe on Lionel's design or production, it should be verified, however I don't have the time right now to do so. If I don't hear back from Lionel within a week, I'll give them another call.  

In addition to Rider, I thank you for making the call.

I am reluctant to put the ownness on the dealer for potential refund, because they were uninformed of the difference.  I suspect, anything they take in return will be stuck with them.  That does not sit well with me and the relationships I have built with some of the dealers.

They did right with the ALCO and Challenger episodes.  I would think Lionel will respond.  Hopefully within a week I can take the RPO and one of the 2017 cars to York with me to show them.  I suspect they are aware.  I have patience and like the others, will wait to hear form the professionals.

artyoung posted:

BobbyD posted:

artyoung posted:

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

These heavyweight cars are about 19" long coupler to coupler.

So this RPO is MUCH bigger than the smaller cars. Oh well, I'd been hoping to add one to my Williams and Lionel B&O sets after a repaint.

The RPO car is shorter, about 16-1/4" long.  Guessing those smaller cars you mention are narrower in width.

Paul

Looking forward to what you hear from Lionel.

Thanks

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

MartyE posted:

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

I hope before York.  I really don’t think they want someone in their booth with the 2017 car and this RPO.  My concern is that our dealers getting stuck and “holding the bag” if returned.  Yesterday I asked L and they were uncertain if L would refund the dealers or distributors.  Hopefully the other 2 cars have been or will be rectified.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I hope before York.  I really don’t think they want someone in their booth with the 2017 car and this RPO.  My concern is that our dealers getting stuck and “holding the bag” if returned.  Yesterday I asked L and they were uncertain if L would refund the dealers or distributors.  Hopefully the other 2 cars have been or will be rectified.

I think I could weather the RPO car and come up with an acceptable look, not that I should have to, as long as the latest add-on scale passenger cars are correct to the past offerings.  Unfortunately if not back it goes.  The RPO car has yet to leave the dealer until this is resolved one way or another.  It might have to go back if we don't hear something soon.  I'll have to let my dealer decide whether he wants to let me wait.

I'll be calling Lionel today to support Paul's effort because as Alan stated on another thread, complaining here won't have the biggest impact. I just want to make sure the passenger cars don't hold the same fate. 

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks for the update, Paul. The RPOs were clearly marketed as add-ons to the existing cars (both white and black roof) in both the catalog and the web shows supplementing the catalog. As such, I agree with your skepticism and simply cannot believe the colors were intentionally changed to make it “more prototypical” - especially since the “prototype” is an animated movie!  When the white roof heavyweights were announced in 2017, they were described as being more reflective of the cars from the movie (the location of the lettering changed). Given that, I would assume any further intentional changes to reflect the “prototype” would also have been specifically touted. Thanks again for making the call. 

That was my first thought. However, for those of you who bought this as an add on, I can certainly understand your disappointment.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out...

Mark in Oregon

Strummer posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks for the update, Paul. The RPOs were clearly marketed as add-ons to the existing cars (both white and black roof) in both the catalog and the web shows supplementing the catalog. As such, I agree with your skepticism and simply cannot believe the colors were intentionally changed to make it “more prototypical” - especially since the “prototype” is an animated movie!  When the white roof heavyweights were announced in 2017, they were described as being more reflective of the cars from the movie (the location of the lettering changed). Given that, I would assume any further intentional changes to reflect the “prototype” would also have been specifically touted. Thanks again for making the call. 

That was my first thought. However, for those of you who bought this as an add on, I can certainly understand your disappointment.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out...

Mark in Oregon

Hello Mark.  On both the Dave & Ryan vid and the Notch 6 podcast relating to the catalog release, the RPOs were touted as add-ons. “For those of you with the original release of the passenger cars, we’ve offered one in a black roof.” (Or something close to that). Purposefully changing the colors would be in direct contradiction to this notion. This is not a bash comment, but it’s been fairly well documented that Lionel has had many color mistakes recently. I think the obvious answer is the correct one: this is another one of them. 

MartyE posted:

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

MartyE,
FWIW, this is the answer that I received from my dealer;

"Apparently the 16” RPOs are made in a different factory than the 18”.  So the answer on the two coming is that they should match last years set. "

OK, if you all think those blues are different, here is what the Grand Canyon Railway is repainting their Polar Express cars to:

Big Jim posted:

MartyE posted:

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

MartyE,
FWIW, this is the answer that I received from my dealer;

"Apparently the 16” RPOs are made in a different factory than the 18”.  So the answer on the two coming is that they should match last years set. "

Jim

Thanks for that information.  I would hope someone from Lionel could verify this.  It would certainly make a difference on me keeping the RPO car.

I am still waiting for a response from Lionel. I informed my dealer, too. If I don't hear anything by Friday, I'll give Lionel and my dealer a call.

While the different factory in China making the RPO vs. the Heavyweights may be the "final answer", it doesn't alleviate the issue with the now finished RPO cars. These are $120+ cars and we have a reasonable expectation that they'll match the livery they were designed for.

As an aside, I encourage everyone to call their dealer and Lionel about this. It has long been my belief that 1/3 to 1/2 of new train purchases are never opened nor inspected until a year or more after receipt, and thus the manufacturers/importers never get the full consumer view point of quality control, or lack thereof.

Paul Kallus posted:

I am still waiting for a response from Lionel. I informed my dealer, too. If I don't hear anything by Friday, I'll give Lionel and my dealer a call.

While the different factory in China making the RPO vs. the Heavyweights may be the "final answer", it doesn't alleviate the issue with the now finished RPO cars. These are $120+ cars and we have a reasonable expectation that they'll match the livery they were designed for.

As an aside, I encourage everyone to call their dealer and Lionel about this. It has long been my belief that 1/3 to 1/2 of new train purchases are never opened nor inspected until a year or more after receipt, and thus the manufacturers/importers never get the full consumer view point of quality control, or lack thereof.

If you are the one here that posted having an earlier conversation with Aaron at Lionel, don't run for the phone.  As of yesterday Katie with Lionel had not heard a peep of this.  Even from other personnel.  I told my dealer about the mismatch and they were clueless. 

Like Marty, if the other 2 are correct, great.  I can look at a tint dulcote on the RPO to try to tone it down a bit.  I would not even consider doing that to the other 2 cars.  An RPO can be a bit off.  Not the others.  I think this will all come to a head when the other 2 come out.  I was hoping that they would come out before York.  To add insult to injury, I bet they release Thanksgiving week or close to Christmas.  Right when you want to show the set off with visitors and friends.

I guess we stay tuned for further developments.

I just spoke with Lionel.  While I didn't ask to share what was conveyed to me, I'll leave that to Lionel to hopefully do,  but I got off the phone feeling much better by what was conveyed to me.  IMO it never hurts to call and be polite and let them know how you feel or what your concerns are.

Personally I think this thread could be closed until Lionel possibly has something to add.  That's certainly up to the moderators.

MartyE posted:

I just spoke with Lionel.  While I didn't ask to share what was conveyed to me, I'll leave that to Lionel to hopefully do,  but I got off the phone feeling much better by what was conveyed to me.  IMO it never hurts to call and be polite and let them know how you feel or what your concerns are.

Personally I think this thread could be closed until Lionel possibly has something to add.  That's certainly up to the moderators.

Are you feeling better about your RPO or your upcoming cars or both?

Rider Sandman posted:

Are you feeling better about your RPO or your upcoming cars or both?

Both.  We'll see what happens.

Thanks Marty!

I got off the phone cautiously optimistic.  That's the best I can describe it.  Again, we'll see what happens.

MartyE posted:

I got off the phone cautiously optimistic.  That's the best I can describe it.  Again, we'll see what happens.

I personally am grateful for your efforts Marty.  I am also cautiously optimistic.  I hope they have some information before York.  It would be nice to take that off my to do list when I visit the booths next week.  Maybe the other 2 cars may be on display in their booth.  I have pictures of the RPO on my phone to compare.

Thanks, Marty. Acting together on this, politely and with respect, is the way to go IMHO.

Paul Kallus posted:

Thanks, Marty. Acting together on this, politely and with respect, is the way to go IMHO.

I 100% agree Paul.  Thanks to everyone keeping the thread on track.  I think Paul was the one who got the calls started.  I followed his lead.  I did speak to Katie and she was very pleasant to deal with.  Lionel has a good person on the front line to deal with us knuckleheads.  LOL!

FWIW: I followed up with Lionel and my dealer and like Marty am optimistic. I don't want to use names of customer service people I spoke to as that could get into "he said, she said", suffice it to say that Lionel dealers should be receiving official instructions from Lionel any day now on instructions of what to do. I'll check again with my dealer next week.

I still encourage everyone who purchased the RPO cars and who would like resolution of the color mismatch to call Lionel and their dealer.

As an aside, there's an amusing history of us Polar Express train nuts, foamers, whatever you want to call us, who have long endeavored to lobby Lionel for O-scale variations of their popular traditional Polar Express line of trains. I remember the early days (2004-2008) very well; there were some spirited discussions back then, including a fair amount of criticisms. I get a good chuckle thinking of this history, but its all part of the fun and evolution of hi-rail

Paul, have you heard anything further?  I asked my dealer over the weekend and he didn’t know anything about a potential fix from Lionel. 

Paul Kallus posted:

FWIW: I followed up with Lionel and my dealer and like Marty am optimistic. I don't want to use names of customer service people I spoke to as that could get into "he said, she said", suffice it to say that Lionel dealers should be receiving official instructions from Lionel any day now on instructions of what to do. I'll check again with my dealer next week.

I still encourage everyone who purchased the RPO cars and who would like resolution of the color mismatch to call Lionel and their dealer.

As an aside, there's an amusing history of us Polar Express train nuts, foamers, whatever you want to call us, who have long endeavored to lobby Lionel for O-scale variations of their popular traditional Polar Express line of trains. I remember the early days (2004-2008) very well; there were some spirited discussions back then, including a fair amount of criticisms. I get a good chuckle thinking of this history, but its all part of the fun and evolution of hi-rail

Paul

Thanks for the follow up.  I'm glad you are optimistic as well. 

I talked to Ryan yesterday about a few things including the polar RPO car, passenger cars, TriPolar (Polar Express BiPolar) and another concern. He assured me that the RPO would be addressed and that the passengers cars and BiPolar would be correct Polar Colors. 

As unfortunate as the RPO car is I feel very confident that Lionel will take care of it. Thanks to Ryan to take the time to listen and address my concerns. 

MartyE posted:

I talked to Ryan yesterday about a few things including the polar RPO car, passenger cars, TriPolar (Polar Express BiPolar) and another concern. He assured me that the RPO would be addressed and that the passengers cars and BiPolar would be correct Polar Colors. 

As unfortunate as the RPO car is I feel very confident that Lionel will take care of it. Thanks to Ryan to take the time to listen and address my concerns. 

Same here from my visit.  They Okayed the RPOs for release, but caught color difference with the Bi-polar.  Response to Ryan internally was “its right because it matches the RPO”.  I can’t say here what Ryan’s response was verbatim.  It would be deleted.  They may do shells or complete exchange.  We will be notified.

The bright spot here is that we don’t have the same problem with your Bi-polar, of ordered.  They caught it.  Kudos to Ryan.

The color mis-match on the RPO cars is one of those QC issues that stands a better chance of being addressed by Lionel if enough customers complain. This is essentially what my dealer and I discussed, and I've been encouraging others via this forum to make calls, and thanks to those who did and you guys who met Lionel reps at York.

Just like in anything, their has to be a significant enough "magnitude" of consumers contacting a company and the store where purchased. Sometimes, we take for granted that others will take the initiative, but in my experience this is mistake.

Hopefully, Lionel will come through with replacement shells for the RPO cars, or at least take them back and re-paint them.

Thanks to Paul and Marty! Keep us posted.
I have expressed my concern to my dealer and Lionel.

Thanks for the updates, guys. Did they give you any idea when they would announce the fix for the RPOs?

Anything new on this?  

I know this is off topic but I wonder why they didn't  make the abandoned toy car.

feet posted:

I know this is off topic but I wonder why they didn't  make the abandoned toy car.

You’re right.  Off topic.  News to me because I’ve had one on pre-order.  At York, Ryan said the ATC was still coming along with the hot chocolate car.

Post it as a separate topic and you will get more specific responses and answers.  You can also email them and get the official word. Then post their response so other interested people will know.

feet posted:

I know this is off topic but I wonder why they didn't  make the abandoned toy car.

There hasn't been any updates that I know of.  Without direct information we should probably just wait and see or contact Lionel directly.  In answer to your other question, not entirely off topic, yes they are making the toy car.  I have one on order too.

 THE POLAR EXPRESS ABANDONED TOY CAR  SKU: 1927640

• Printed toys and six molded toys in interior
• Die-cast sprung six-wheel trucks
• Operating couples with hidden uncoupling tabs
• Flexible diaphragms between cars
• Opening doors
• Detailed interiors with figures
• Flicker-free interior LED lighting

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

• Gauge: O Gauge  
• Scale Type: Traditional
• Power: Electric
• Min Curve: O54
• Dimensions: Length: 18"

MartyE posted:

feet posted:

I know this is off topic but I wonder why they didn't  make the abandoned toy car.

There hasn't been any updates that I know of.  Without direct information we should probably just wait and see or contact Lionel directly.  In answer to your other question, not entirely off topic, yes they are making the toy car.  I have one on order too.

 THE POLAR EXPRESS ABANDONED TOY CAR  SKU: 1927640

Grow your The Polar Express world with our The Polar Express Abandoned Toy Car!

_{THE POLAR EXPRESS and all related characters and elements © & ™ Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. (s19)}

• Printed toys and six molded toys in interior
• Die-cast sprung six-wheel trucks
• Operating couples with hidden uncoupling tabs
• Flexible diaphragms between cars
• Opening doors
• Detailed interiors with figures
• Flicker-free interior LED lighting

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

• Gauge: O Gauge  
• Scale Type: Traditional
• Power: Electric
• Min Curve: O54
• Dimensions: Length: 18"

Thank you Marty.  Taking it a step further, at York, Ryan stated the ATC & HCC were produced in a different factory, and the paint is correct.  I could not think of why The big "L" would not produce a car for a popular series.  I have not followed up lately, but I think they were coming around Nov.  If it is like the 5-car set, they will come in between Christmas and New Years.  Time will tell.

Thanks to those who replied to my post. I will look and se if I can order one.

I ordered mine through MM in Atlanta, IN.  Give Jeff a call and see if they ordered extras.  Won't do you much good, but you can drop my name or the forum.  Steve is always posting new sales.  

In fairness, there are many dealers that have great service.  This one came to mind because I pre-ordered mine from them.

FWIW: As of today, my dealer (Charles Ro) hasn't heard from Lionel on the color mis-match, and from my last correspondence with Lionel the customer service rep told me that Lionel would be communicating to their authorized dealer network.

Whereas I was optimistic about a month ago I am now a bit pessimistic. I think the cars were issued a couple of months ago to dealers and I would've think Lionel would've issued a recall notice by now. Then again I am old-school in my way of business thinking, so what do I know.

I'll follow-up with Charles Ro in a couple of weeks...if Lionel hasn't issued a remedy by then I suppose I'll need to decide whether to send the RPO's back for a refund or keep them as-is.

Paul

I am being patient.  York was 3 weeks ago and when I spoke with Ryan he was very understanding and I still feel they will make it right.  I imagine they just need to find a spot to get these redone.  

Was it ever determined why the scale RPO was 16-1/2" rather than the 18" like the rest of the scale passenger cars?  Do you think Lionel might reissue the scale RPO at 18" and with the correct color?

smilesrs posted:

Was it ever determined why the scale RPO was 16-1/2" rather than the 18" like the rest of the scale passenger cars?  Do you think Lionel might reissue the scale RPO at 18" and with the correct color?

Prototype RPO's were usually shorter than regular passenger cars.

Rusty

MartyE posted:

Paul

I am being patient.  York was 3 weeks ago and when I spoke with Ryan he was very understanding and I still feel they will make it right.  I imagine they just need to find a spot to get these redone.  

Marty,

I hope you still have patience.  I spoke to customer service last week.  They said they were still awaiting direction from management.  Nothing going on of imminent in their opinion.  Somehow, I think this one might just go away, instead of being fixed.

I called my dealer in Indiana.  They said they would look into it.  I won't hold my breath.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

MartyE posted:

Paul

I am being patient.  York was 3 weeks ago and when I spoke with Ryan he was very understanding and I still feel they will make it right.  I imagine they just need to find a spot to get these redone.  

Marty,

I hope you still have patience.  I spoke to customer service last week.  They said they were still awaiting direction from management.  Nothing going on of imminent in their opinion.  Somehow, I think this one might just go away, instead of being fixed.

I called my dealer in Indiana.  They said they would look into it.  I won't hold my breath.

I'm still optimistic.  While it's unfortunate, coming up with a plan, finding a spot to make new shells, and then implementing it takes time.  

MartyE posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

MartyE posted:

Paul

I am being patient.  York was 3 weeks ago and when I spoke with Ryan he was very understanding and I still feel they will make it right.  I imagine they just need to find a spot to get these redone.  

Marty,

I hope you still have patience.  I spoke to customer service last week.  They said they were still awaiting direction from management.  Nothing going on of imminent in their opinion.  Somehow, I think this one might just go away, instead of being fixed.

I called my dealer in Indiana.  They said they would look into it.  I won't hold my breath.

I'm still optimistic.  While it's unfortunate, coming up with a plan, finding a spot to make new shells, and then implementing it takes time.  

Spoke with CS this morning.  Shells are currently in production.  Big L will post details when they are ready to publish.  They will accept returns through dealer.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

MartyE posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

MartyE posted:

Paul

I am being patient.  York was 3 weeks ago and when I spoke with Ryan he was very understanding and I still feel they will make it right.  I imagine they just need to find a spot to get these redone.  

Marty,

I hope you still have patience.  I spoke to customer service last week.  They said they were still awaiting direction from management.  Nothing going on of imminent in their opinion.  Somehow, I think this one might just go away, instead of being fixed.

I called my dealer in Indiana.  They said they would look into it.  I won't hold my breath.

I'm still optimistic.  While it's unfortunate, coming up with a plan, finding a spot to make new shells, and then implementing it takes time.  

Spoke with CS this morning.  Shells are currently in production.  Big L will post details when they are ready to publish.  They will accept returns through dealer.

This is excellent news!  Many thanks for posting the update. 

I am going to send mine back to Charles Ro due to unconfirmed conversation with them and Lionel last week for a refund.  If they produce a correct version then I may choose to repurchase again but what a disappointment.  I wish I would have found this tread before I purchased it for this past Christmas as it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Rider Sandman posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Spoke with CS this morning.  Shells are currently in production.  Big L will post details when they are ready to publish.  They will accept returns through dealer.

This is excellent news!  Many thanks for posting the update. 

Has anybody heard anything official on this?  I think the hobo car in the new catalog would be fun to add, but I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger with the RPO unresolved. It would give me confidence to buy the hobo car if they acknowledged the RPO’s were wrong and not otherwise within an “acceptable variation”.  

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I ordered mine through MM in Atlanta, IN.  Give Jeff a call and see if they ordered extras.  Won't do you much good, but you can drop my name or the forum.  Steve is always posting new sales.  

In fairness, there are many dealers that have great service.  This one came to mind because I pre-ordered mine from them.

Got my toy car thru Charles Ro in Dec. Haven't inspected it yet as I can't get around very good do to a broken ankle.

Rider Sandman posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Spoke with CS this morning.  Shells are currently in production.  Big L will post details when they are ready to publish.  They will accept returns through dealer.

This is excellent news!  Many thanks for posting the update. 

Has anybody heard anything official on this?  I think the hobo car in the new catalog would be fun to add, but I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger with the RPO unresolved. It would give me confidence to buy the hobo car if they acknowledged the RPO’s were wrong and not otherwise within an “acceptable variation”.  

All the additional passenger cars I received were a match to the earlier cars. The RPO car is the only exception. 

MartyE posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Spoke with CS this morning.  Shells are currently in production.  Big L will post details when they are ready to publish.  They will accept returns through dealer.

This is excellent news!  Many thanks for posting the update. 

Has anybody heard anything official on this?  I think the hobo car in the new catalog would be fun to add, but I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger with the RPO unresolved. It would give me confidence to buy the hobo car if they acknowledged the RPO’s were wrong and not otherwise within an “acceptable variation”.  

All the additional passenger cars I received were a match to the earlier cars. The RPO car is the only exception. 

Same as Marty.  RPO was different factory.  My gut is that they will shoot the new shells when they make the New Hobo car.  Like powder coating, a cost is incurred when setting up the paint batch.  That assumes good managing expenses and economy of scale.

Actually the white roof cars are ever so slightly off.  They need to add just a little more gray to the mix.    Most folks wouldn't notice unless the paintwork is side by side.  The white roof creates an optical illusion making it appear lighter as well.  

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

MartyE posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Spoke with CS this morning.  Shells are currently in production.  Big L will post details when they are ready to publish.  They will accept returns through dealer.

This is excellent news!  Many thanks for posting the update. 

Has anybody heard anything official on this?  I think the hobo car in the new catalog would be fun to add, but I can’t bring myself to pull the trigger with the RPO unresolved. It would give me confidence to buy the hobo car if they acknowledged the RPO’s were wrong and not otherwise within an “acceptable variation”.  

All the additional passenger cars I received were a match to the earlier cars. The RPO car is the only exception. 

Same as Marty.  RPO was different factory.  My gut is that they will shoot the new shells when they make the New Hobo car.  Like powder coating, a cost is incurred when setting up the paint batch.  That assumes good managing expenses and economy of scale.

 

While less than desirable, I would be fine with that scenario. I would just appreciate if they would say something - anything at all - about the issue and their willingness to fix it (or not). 

Volphin posted:

Actually the white roof cars are ever so slightly off.  They need to add just a little more gray to the mix.    Most folks wouldn't notice unless the paintwork is side by side.  The white roof creates an optical illusion making it appear lighter as well.  

Really!

Big Jim posted:

Volphin posted:

Actually the white roof cars are ever so slightly off.  They need to add just a little more gray to the mix.    Most folks wouldn't notice unless the paintwork is side by side.  The white roof creates an optical illusion making it appear lighter as well.  

Really!

Well captain obvious, if you had read the second comment above mine you MAY have understood the context of my post... I'll let you figure it out on your own there Sparky.

OK, for you friends with the same issue.  Ryan with Lionel posted a topic that addresses the incorrect striping on the recently released J Class locomotives.  Refunds, repaint etc...

With our Scale RPOs, lionel has acknowledged the problem (Customer Service Phone Calls & my conversation with Ryan at York last October).  I realize this is not a $1,700 item, but we are not getting the same love by the Big L.  Please reach out to Ryan if you want to keep this alive.

I was hoping they would paint shells when they produce the  Hobo Car announced in the latest catalog.  If we are to get the color right, that may be the best time when they paint the Hobos.

I will share that I am hesitant to order add on cars from a different catalog.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

 

I will share that I am hesitant to order add on cars from a different catalog.

The latest passenger cars were fine and matched what I received last year. I was very happy with them and the BiPolar.  Lionel did an excellent job on these.

The RPO car I am still waiting to see if anything will be done on it.  If you are hoping people will contact Lionel, good luck with that.  It seems like "somebody else will do it" is standard operating procedure for most.

MartyE posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

 

I will share that I am hesitant to order add on cars from a different catalog.

The latest passenger cars were fine and matched what I received last year. I was very happy with them and the BiPolar.  Lionel did an excellent job on these.

The RPO car I am still waiting to see if anything will be done on it.  If you are hoping people will contact Lionel, good luck with that.  It seems like "somebody else will do it" is standard operating procedure for most.

The purpose here is to encourage action to Lionel, to make this right.  If no one does, then the next step is to darken the blue with a Tamiya Dulcote or a light smoke mixture.  Not the end of the world, but would be nice if we could nudge a fix.  If the wheel is greased or not moving, it will not be fixed.  I'm hoping the wheel squeaks enough for a factory response similar to the more expensive engines.

I emailed Lionel earlier this week but have not received any response. 

As I have four calls into Lionel service and 3 into Charles Ro on this matter, I guess I am a broken record to them. Am trying to stay optimistic.

Paul Kallus posted:

As I have four calls into Lionel service and 3 into Charles Ro on this matter, I guess I am a broken record to them. Am trying to stay optimistic.

See the featured message on the J at the top of the forum. Ryan addresses this in his last post. Sounds like they are rerunning the shells. 

MartyE posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

As I have four calls into Lionel service and 3 into Charles Ro on this matter, I guess I am a broken record to them. Am trying to stay optimistic.

See the featured message on the J at the top of the forum. Ryan addresses this in his last post. Sounds like they are rerunning the shells. 

Item #3 on his follow-up post.  I'm glad he mentioned it.  I believe my post asking was removed, but he must have seen it prior.  He did address it, and I now am 100% satisfied.  Returning for a refund was not an option.  I can't seem to get cash to run around the layout.  Trains do much better.

I'm happy with this as well.  Looking forward to it being in the consist next year.

MartyE posted:

I'm happy with this as well.  Looking forward to it being in the consist next year.

Marty,

I assume the consist headed by that beautiful Bi-Polar you received a month or so ago?  If you are at York next October we have to meet.  We have been dogging this forever since the 1st posting.  I as well as you, feel much better.

I'm not that knowledgeable about collection value - never bought any trains for anything other than running them and having fun, but with a limited amount of these cars being produced as "mistakes", is it possible these could be a rare item in the distant future and therefore valuable?  

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

MartyE posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

As I have four calls into Lionel service and 3 into Charles Ro on this matter, I guess I am a broken record to them. Am trying to stay optimistic.

See the featured message on the J at the top of the forum. Ryan addresses this in his last post. Sounds like they are rerunning the shells. 

Item #3 on his follow-up post.  I'm glad he mentioned it.  I believe my post asking was removed, but he must have seen it prior.  He did address it, and I now am 100% satisfied.  Returning for a refund was not an option.  I can't seem to get cash to run around the layout.  Trains do much better.

I'm glad Ryan addressed this as well.  It makes me feel a lot better about my preorders in the new catalog.  

sord posted:

I'm not that knowledgeable about collection value - never bought any trains for anything other than running them and having fun, but with a limited amount of these cars being produced as "mistakes", is it possible these could be a rare item in the distant future and therefore valuable?  

Not to sound like a naysayer, but, mistakes must be very rare to make collectability.  Also, low number in quantity.  I think there were enough produced that the market would not appreciate in value.  I know there are people out there with upside down lettering etc. and they don't seem to hold the value in high esteem.  I'm glad they are going to make them right.  As far as collectability, we will see, especially if they don't want the wrong shells returned.  Then the auction sites will tell.

I still think it would be helpful if Ryan (or somebody) would come out and address the issue of the RPOs squarely. I realize he said in the other thread the RPOs were being remade in Korea. Does that mean they are being “remade” by offering shells to existing owners?  Will they be free or will there be a cost to replacing them?  What is the timing?  I agree that hearing something today is better than the previous silence, but I still have no tangible idea as to what is going on and this thing has been lingering since the fall. I’m okay being patient for as long as necessary, but it would be great to have a little communication as to how long my patience is to be necessary. 

I still think that you need to send your product back to your store or distributor so they can can hopefully send it back to Lionel.  If Lionel does not receive any or very little quantity back, why would they care to produce any more if there is little or no problems that they receive in returns.  Hopefully I did the correct choice in returning mine back. I have no idea if Charles Ro will return it to Lionel or try and resale it as well.  But am hoping they send it back to Lionel to make a statement.

These qa/qc problems are ridiculous in trying to sustain the hobby or product line.

I figured I'd open this wound again and ask if anyone has heard anything on correcting this car's colors?  Ryan @Conrail6358  did mention in the J repaint thread that they were being reran in Korea.  With Christmas approaching and wanting to run all my Polar cars this is coming up again. 

I didn't know if Ryan could comment or if any dealer or anyone else that might have had a conversation about this with them and whether any progress was made in Korea.  With the Covid mess I'm not hopeful we'll see a correction soon but thought I'd check the forum in case someone else had any info.

@MartyE posted:

I figured I'd open this wound again and ask if anyone has heard anything on correcting this car's colors?  Ryan @Conrail6358  did mention in the J repaint thread that they were being reran in Korea.  With Christmas approaching and wanting to run all my Polar cars this is coming up again. 

I didn't know if Ryan could comment or if any dealer or anyone else that might have had a conversation about this with them and whether any progress was made in Korea.  With the Covid mess I'm not hopeful we'll see a correction soon but thought I'd check the forum in case someone else had any info.

I spoke with Katie about a month ago.  She knew it was an active issue, but did not know anything more than that.

When I spoke to someone prior (maybe Ryan), the plan was to run shells with the car (2027480 18" Hobo Car that is being released soon.  They will be on the same paint run.

If they don't, I figure move on.  Looking at the RPO as is, I figured a coat of Tamiya Dullcote would even it out a bit.  Something with a little smoke in it will help add depth and darken it up a bit.

Christmas already.  Let's only hope Marty.  The set built up is very beautiful, with the exception....

My messages regarding the RPO remain unanswered. I understand phone calls may be better than emails, but I’ve always had good luck getting my emails answered so I assume the lack of an answer is related to the subject, not the method of communication. 

Perhaps a bit irrational, but I’ve decided the RPO is a circuit breaker issue for me relating to preorders. I realize the car itself is not big bucks, but for me it represents my accumulated frustration on these types of “variations.”  

FWIW: I suppose it was the little cold spell here (after a brutal summer it is very welcome) in PA to get my interest in the Polar Express revived...so I followed up with customer service today at lunch break...the person didn't have any updates on the RPO color solution(s), but took my number and said he'll look into it.

I think we're going on a decent lapse of time since the issue was first brought to Lionel's attention. Given the global pandemic, its likely some things got sidelined. Nevertheless, I recommend others giving them a call.

I still have my RPO cars (white and black roofed) sitting in boxes waiting for either re-paint or shell replacement. Given that they're scale cars and relative high price point, I am expecting a satisfactory resolution.

@Paul Kallus posted:

FWIW: I suppose it was the little cold spell here (after a brutal summer it is very welcome) in PA to get my interest in the Polar Express revived...so I followed up with customer service today at lunch break...the person didn't have any updates on the RPO color solution(s), but took my number and said he'll look into it.

I think we're going on a decent lapse of time since the issue was first brought to Lionel's attention. Given the global pandemic, its likely some things got sidelined. Nevertheless, I recommend others giving them a call.

I still have my RPO cars (white and black roofed) sitting in boxes waiting for either re-paint or shell replacement. Given that they're scale cars and relative high price point, I am expecting a satisfactory resolution.

I am in the same boat.  Luckily I have only the 1 white Roof RPO.  If Lionel does not address this I think a fine coat of Tamiya Dulcote will soften the brilliance.  I only have the one car left on pre-order to complete the set.  Hope that one is right.  My gut is 50% that they will rectify this.  We will know fore sure when they get ready to release the last one.  That would be the time to paint shells in that production run.

I will lob a call in and squeak the wheel a bit.

Well I was getting ready to pull my scale Polar set out for the year and then when I got to the RPO car remembered that it's still incorrect.  I keep on picking this scab.  Anyone hear any updates about a new shell.  I'll email Lionel again but thought before I do see if anyone has beat me to it.

I guess it will be delegated to the Island of Misfit Toys.  A real shame too as it would have looked great with the consist.  As Clarice sang "there's always tomorrow", or next year.

On 9/23, Aaron at Lionel said he'd get back to me...how time flies...I'll give Lionel a call again...maybe they're strength in numbers...if 2 or 3 of us call in the same day.

@MartyE posted:

Well I was getting ready to pull my scale Polar set out for the year and then when I got to the RPO car remembered that it's still incorrect.  I keep on picking this scab.  Anyone hear any updates about a new shell.  I'll email Lionel again but thought before I do see if anyone has beat me to it.

I guess it will be delegated to the Island of Misfit Toys.  A real shame too as it would have looked great with the consist.  As Clarice sang "there's always tomorrow", or next year.

I have been waiting.  In the absence of a Lionel remedy I think it can be somewhat corrected.  Tamiya makes a synthetic laquer in a clear dull coat.  I have used it in modeling for many models.  It should work very well at killing the brilliance in the blue which makes it stand out like "spats at an Iowa picnic".  A little rubbing will bring on a little dull matte look to match the textrure of the other cars.    If they don't move on the replacement shells, then I will try it.  I will post if it gets to that.

@sord posted:

I'm not that knowledgeable about collection value - never bought any trains for anything other than running them and having fun, but with a limited amount of these cars being produced as "mistakes", is it possible these could be a rare item in the distant future and therefore valuable?  

Discussed this with guys recently, their opinion was this was a big deal with Postwar collectors, today's customer isn't interested in factory errors.

Has anyone gotten an update on these cars?

I emailed the "Talk to Us" address.  I'm waiting on a reply.  I've actually had pretty good luck with that. 

FWIW: I called Lionel customer service but never got through...so I sent an e-mail to Talk to Us.

If we don't hear back on this matter this year, then perhaps a letter to Howard Hitchcock will be my last hope. He responded to my letter 2 years ago regarding the scale PE trucks and paint blotches. I still think the written word via USPS conveys thought and feeling beyond e-mails and phone calls.