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Yeah.  It's murder trying to shovel oil...

And sometimes the oil bunker doesn't fit under the cab overhang:

0-8-0 NWSW 25

(RMC or R&R photo? Carstens Publications)

Rusty

Remember that the North-Western Steel & Wire complex in Sterling, IL was NOT under FRA regulations, and thus they could do what ever they wanted with their steam locomotives. Also, all those steam locomotives were purchased for scrap, and thus when one failed or went bad, they then scrapped it and fired up another one. It was certainly a great place to visit, back in the day.

@bigkid posted:

I have a question related to this:  There are several connections between a tender and the engine, the drawbar, the brake line, oil supply lines I would assume (if oil fired), screw type coal delivery from tender to engine. Leaving out the obvious, where you have a coal fired engine and an oil fired tender, how interchangeable would tenders be (again, I realize it wasn't common).

I assume among a class of locos it would be doable, that the tender on a certain class of engine,like a NYC mikado, would work with another engine in the class, but what about between classes? For exampe, could a tender used on a NYC mikado be used on a Hudson? I would assume not, not just the drawbridge, but overhangs,etc between engine and tender might likely make that impossible, but was just curious. 

Swapping tenders between different classes of locos depended upon whether the firing deck height was the same (or very close).  Usually the firing deck height on passenger locos was higher because of their larger driver diameter than freight locos.

Stuart

 

Anyone interested in Union Pacific's variety, use, and swapping of tenders would enjoy Union Pacific Historical Society's Streamliner Vol.22 No.3 Summer 2008

Has a nice article "The Tender Behind" by Gordon McCulloh & James L. Ehernberger.

Nice photos and reading.  Helpful for UP fans.  My favorite was a photo of a FEF using a modified Vanderbilt tender usually seen behind a TTT. 

Can't seem to remember where I put it to share.  

Streamliner_22-3_Cover_large

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Last edited by WITZ 41

To echo an earlier post, tenders weren't swapped around willy-nilly. Yes an engine built in 1908 might only have it's original tender until 1940, when it might be replaced with a larger one whose added water and fuel supply allowed it to go longer between stops, and it used until it was retired in 1955. In 1995 the engine, which had been on static display, was restored to working condition - but the tender had considerable rust damage, so a tender that was available that had been used in maintenance of way service after it's engine was scrapped was found and mated to the restored engine. So yes the tender could change, but it wasn't like coupling a car to the engine where it would have one tender one day and a different one tomorrow.

@wjstix posted:

To echo an earlier post, tenders weren't swapped around willy-nilly. Yes an engine built in 1908 might only have it's original tender until 1940, when it might be replaced with a larger one whose added water and fuel supply allowed it to go longer between stops, and it used until it was retired in 1955. In 1995 the engine, which had been on static display, was restored to working condition - but the tender had considerable rust damage, so a tender that was available that had been used in maintenance of way service after it's engine was scrapped was found and mated to the restored engine. So yes the tender could change, but it wasn't like coupling a car to the engine where it would have one tender one day and a different one tomorrow.

I knew Willy Nilly. He never swapped tenders. He worked in the freight car shops. 😎

Actually, tenders were separated from all locomotives for class repairs. If a tender was serviced and ready to go and another locomotive of the same class was road-ready but its tender was still under repair, the tenders would be swapped. Many Union Pacific locomotives trailed different tenders for that reason. Roadworthy locomotives would not be held out of service just to get their original tender.

 

Last edited by Nick Chillianis
@breezinup posted:
 

Ed Dickens told me during a visit I made to see 4014 that they planned to build a new tender for the engine. They got a quote from a company to build it, which they thought was too high, so they were planning to build their own tender for the 4014. Whether that happens or not, we'll just have to stay tuned, I suppose.

Ed Dickens says lots of things. Many of the things he says directly contradict other things he has said.

He has little to no credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Last edited by Nick Chillianis

I knew Willy Nilly. He never swapped tenders. He worked in the freight car shops. 😎

Actually, tenders were separated from all locomotives for class repairs.

Even more often than that. Remember that per ICC/FRA regulations, the engine to tender draw-bars had to be hammer tested (looking for cracks) every 90 days. That regulation still applies to this day.

If a tender was serviced and ready to go and another locomotive of the same class was road-ready but its tender was still under repair, the tenders would be swapped. Many Union Pacific locomotives trailed different tenders for that reason. Roadworthy locomotives would not be held out of service just to get their original tender.

Absolutely correct. In fact, a number of railroads even had entirely separate "tender/tank shops", where the tenders were overhauled. Thus, when a particular engine was almost finished with a major overhaul and ready for a tender, the appropriate class of tender that was finished, was transferred from the "Tank Shop" to the Back Shop, and thus connected to the engine.

 

 

Not only tenders swapped around different locomotives, but in some cases the front engines of articulated locomotives were sometime swapped as well.  When the Norfolk & Western upgraded their class Y-5 2-8-8-2's to cast bed frames they took the original front engines from the 19 Y-5's and used them under various class Y-3, Y-3a, and Y-4 locomotives.  You can tell by the Y-5's larger piston valves and bridge pipe.

Also, they went and swapped the front engines of at least two Class A 2-6-6-4's.  Engines 1205 and 1213 swapped front engines which is notable and noticeable because the 1205 was built with multiple bearing crossheads while the 1213 was built with alligator crossheads.  As a result the 1205 had alligator crossheads on the front engine and multiple bearing crossheads on the rear engine while the 12013 had multiple bearing crossheads on the front engine and alligator crossheads on the rear engine.

Stuart

 

@Stuart posted:

Not only tenders swapped around different locomotives, but in some cases the front engines of articulated locomotives were sometime swapped as well.  When the Norfolk & Western upgraded their class Y-5 2-8-8-2's to cast bed frames they took the original front engines from the 19 Y-5's and used them under various class Y-3, Y-3a, and Y-4 locomotives.  You can tell by the Y-5's larger piston valves and bridge pipe.

Also, they went and swapped the front engines of at least two Class A 2-6-6-4's.  Engines 1205 and 1213 swapped front engines which is notable and noticeable because the 1205 was built with multiple bearing crossheads while the 1213 was built with alligator crossheads.  As a result the 1205 had alligator crossheads on the front engine and multiple bearing crossheads on the rear engine while the 12013 had multiple bearing crossheads on the front engine and alligator crossheads on the rear engine.

Stuart

 

 

Thanks, Stuart 

Here's 1205 showing alligator up front and multiple bearing on the rear engine.

Here's 1213 showing the reversed order.

@Stuart posted:

Not only tenders swapped around different locomotives, but in some cases the front engines of articulated locomotives were sometime swapped as well.  When the Norfolk & Western upgraded their class Y-5 2-8-8-2's to cast bed frames they took the original front engines from the 19 Y-5's and used them under various class Y-3, Y-3a, and Y-4 locomotives.  You can tell by the Y-5's larger piston valves and bridge pipe.

Also, they went and swapped the front engines of at least two Class A 2-6-6-4's.  Engines 1205 and 1213 swapped front engines which is notable and noticeable because the 1205 was built with multiple bearing crossheads while the 1213 was built with alligator crossheads.  As a result the 1205 had alligator crossheads on the front engine and multiple bearing crossheads on the rear engine while the 12013 had multiple bearing crossheads on the front engine and alligator crossheads on the rear engine.

Stuart

 

The 2‘ gauge Festiniog Railway in North Wales are one of the very few operators still running a fleet of articulated locomotives, in their case a total of three double 0-4-4-0T double, and one 0-4-4T single Fairlies. They have a total of eleven bogies, of varying age and design depending on which loco they were originally built for. 

No pair are identical, and not all are serviceable but all are sufficiently similar that they can be, and are interchanged as servicing programmes dictate. 

The adjacent Welsh Highland Railway operate a fleet of five 2-6-2+2-6-2T Garratts, again not all identical or in simultaneous service, but engines are interchanged for servicing reasons. 

The K1 0-4-0+0-4-0T Beyer Garratt is a unique unit with no interchangeability, it is not in regular service. 

The 2‘6” gauge Kitson Meyer locomotive at Welshpool, and the incomplete locomotive at Cripple Creek are from the same series, but as neither are serviceable and they are so far apart, no interchange has ever taken place. 

 

Last edited by Rockershovel

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