Sensor Track And TMCC Engines In The Era Of The Sensor Car

The sensor track only sends out Legacy commands unless as you found out you make a recording.  The sensor car was primarily made for older Legacy engines with the added ability to do a TMCC recording.  The limiting factor here isn't the car but the sensor track.

I'd rather just reprogram my sensor car than buy 12 of them.

Marty,

Thanks for confirming this for me.  It's a pity they didn't allow for the TMCC commands, particularly if they foresaw offering the sensor car eventually.  If they wanted to push you to upgrade the board in your TMCC engine to a Legacy board then that might have explained it and I'd have grudgingly accepted that more modest upgrade cost.  But since I'm not aware of Legacy aftermarket boards, but rather just TMCC ones, trying to push me to buy entirely new models of engines I already have now is just unconscionable.  

Legacy commands have an extra bit in the code to enable more features than TMCC. And all the "canned" commands for the sensor track are Legacy, so they can't for example blow the horn on a TMCC engine. You have to program that with "record" for TMCC operations. It's not because of the sensor car, it's just a sort of trigger. It's the sensor track preprogrammed commands that are Legacy and won't work with a TMCC item. If they wanted to support TMCC equally with Legacy, the sensor track would have two sets of preprogrammed responses.

I think that's it...

I have a sensor car programmed to my TMCC Challenger and simply did a TMCC recording on the sensor track and it runs great. I then tried another sensor track to record one Legacy engine run sequence and then a start and run for the Challenger with the other sensor car. It worked great so now I have to really study the recording procedures to run them. Also, it is cool to see non infared sensor engines now show up on the iPad LCS app during train running.

I have a bit of a kludged solution to this problem to offer:

Assuming I understand correctly, the sensor track is working as intended, when the sensor car passed by it sends out the signals to blow the whistle, but it sends out the Legacy command, which TMCC engines can not understand.  

It may not be worth the trouble, but I believe one could build a small add-on that would plug into the Legacy base which would look for the legacy whistle command, and when it sees it, would spit back out the TMCC command.  The components would cost about $5 shipped out of China, and the programing could be done fairly quickly by modifying code I already have written.  

If this seems like something worth trying, let me know.  

JGL

What would be cool is to be able to expand that concept a little to do more than simply toot the whistle.  Specifically, it would be really cool to be able to change speeds on the locomotive triggered by the sensor track. 

A recording will do that.  But you already knew that.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

What would be cool is to be able to expand that concept a little to do more than simply toot the whistle.  Specifically, it would be really cool to be able to change speeds on the locomotive triggered by the sensor track. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

What would be cool is to be able to expand that concept a little to do more than simply toot the whistle.  Specifically, it would be really cool to be able to change speeds on the locomotive triggered by the sensor track. 

Not having a legacy set or sensor track/car, this is all going to be theory based on what I know about the system and the information published in the LCS-LEGACY-Protocol-Spec-v1.21 that I have.  

That said, I don't see any reason that a micro-controller would not be able to read incoming data in the Legacy spec and output TMCC equivalent commands back into the Base.  With speed commands, however, I'm unsure if any, or all of the TMCC engines out there can read TMCC's absolute speed commands, or if they will only respond to relative speed commands.  In any case it should be possible for the device to remember what the last speed issued was, and compute how many steps to adjust to move at the desired speed.  A bit of coding work for all that, but nothing that seems too difficult.  

JGL

JohnGaltLine posted:

I have a bit of a kludged solution to this problem to offer:

Assuming I understand correctly, the sensor track is working as intended, when the sensor car passed by it sends out the signals to blow the whistle, but it sends out the Legacy command, which TMCC engines can not understand.  

It may not be worth the trouble, but I believe one could build a small add-on that would plug into the Legacy base which would look for the legacy whistle command, and when it sees it, would spit back out the TMCC command.  The components would cost about $5 shipped out of China, and the programing could be done fairly quickly by modifying code I already have written.  

If this seems like something worth trying, let me know.  

JGL

Could this be done with an Arduino?  That would open up a lot of possibilities for sure.

Gpritch posted:

Could this be done with an Arduino?  That would open up a lot of possibilities for sure.

An arduino is exactly what I had in mind, but any one of numerous other micro-controllers could work for someone more familiar with programing them.  You can get a Nano clone for less than $3, and an RS232 module for under a buck.  I would probably start off using a Mega2560 for testing, because the extra serial ports make trouble shooting much easier, however.  

JGL

Without commenting on the specifics at hand, note that in order to introduce a serial device into a Layout Control System installation, you must do so via an LCS SER2 module. It won't work to patch your serial processor in between the command base and the first device in the LCS chain.

I'm about 99.88% sure that any TMCC locomotive recognizes absolute TMCC speed steps.  I've never seen or heard of one that doesn't.

Railsounds posted:

Without commenting on the specifics at hand, note that in order to introduce a serial device into a Layout Control System installation, you must do so via an LCS SER2 module. It won't work to patch your serial processor in between the command base and the first device in the LCS chain.

I understand that Legacy commands can only be introduced through the SER2 or LCS Wifi devices, but am still unclear if out-going Legacy commands appear on Base's output in a readable format.  In either case, doesn't one need a SER2 or LCS Wifi to use the sensor tracks in the first place?  

JGL

>In either case, doesn't one need a SER2 or LCS Wifi to use the sensor tracks in the first place?  

No. Any one LCS component, a command base and the LCS db9 cable and power supply is the minimum valid configuration.  In other words, neither a SER2 or LCS Wifi is required to use a SensorTrack.

The SER2 is required for running any other serial devices like TPCs etc. I know that's not part of the thread, but it gets in the way when I said to someone, a sensor track, and power supply, this is all you need.

Yes, that's true. If you already have other devices connected to your command base serial port, and want to start adding LCS components, you will require an SER2 to re-connect your older serial devices. But my previous comment is also true--neither an SER2 nor an LCS WiFi is *required* in order to use a SensorTrack.

JohnGaltLine posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

What would be cool is to be able to expand that concept a little to do more than simply toot the whistle.  Specifically, it would be really cool to be able to change speeds on the locomotive triggered by the sensor track. 

Not having a legacy set or sensor track/car, this is all going to be theory based on what I know about the system and the information published in the LCS-LEGACY-Protocol-Spec-v1.21 that I have.  

That said, I don't see any reason that a micro-controller would not be able to read incoming data in the Legacy spec and output TMCC equivalent commands back into the Base.  With speed commands, however, I'm unsure if any, or all of the TMCC engines out there can read TMCC's absolute speed commands, or if they will only respond to relative speed commands.  In any case it should be possible for the device to remember what the last speed issued was, and compute how many steps to adjust to move at the desired speed.  A bit of coding work for all that, but nothing that seems too difficult.  

JGL

This is exactly what I was hoping somebody would offer.   Yes you can make a recording but that "dumbs down" the sensor track.   The recording is then for a TMCC horn or bell or whatever.  And if you change the sensor track action you have to change the recording.   You have a number of preprogrammed actions already built in.  It would be fantastic for those of us with more TMCC than Legacy if there was a device we could plug into a SER2 that would basically allow us to set any of the various pre programmed actions into the sensor track (change them as well) and then have those actions "caught" and resent as correct TMCC commands based on the sensor car that went over the sensor track.  That way the sensor cars would be great compliments not just to Legacy engines before they had transmitters but all TMCC engines that NEVER had transmitters.   This would basically have me buying a sensor car (albeit probably waiting to be able to make them all different) for every one of my TMCC engines.   

Well, it's fairly easy to pop a different shell onto the sensor car, so if you can find a Lionel scale car that suits you for a specific consist, you can do that now.  Of course, we just have to come up with the little box that does the translation...

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 Of course, we just have to come up with the little box that does the translation...

And if you do, I'll promptly place an order!  

Don't jump too fast, you haven't heard the price yet.

Just remember the little box may not work on all TMCC engines unless there is a way to address the TMCC boards on Atlas engines. I initially tried to make the sensor car work with an Atlas TMCC, yes, and older one, an the sensor car did not like it. The sensor car kept changing the engine setup to Legacy from TMCC which messed up controls. Just my experience.

Well, I'd be happy to putz around with such a translator box, if anyone out there wants to lend out everything needed to test everything.  (Legacy 990 set, sensor track, sensor car, and maybe a SER2.)  

That said there may be a simpler route one could take, and certainly less expensive.  Rather than using the sensor car/track combo for TMCC engines, one could build their own sensor system, using either IR or RFID to uniquely identify a passing engine, then inject TMCC commands to the base without need to decode any legacy instructions.  

JGL

Captaincog posted:

Just remember the little box may not work on all TMCC engines unless there is a way to address the TMCC boards on Atlas engines. I initially tried to make the sensor car work with an Atlas TMCC, yes, and older one, an the sensor car did not like it. The sensor car kept changing the engine setup to Legacy from TMCC which messed up controls. Just my experience.

 It should work fine with absolutely any TMCC engine. Happy to work through this with you to confirm. If it is turning the CAB2 back to Legacy mode, this means that the data beaming out of the sensor car is set as a legacy engine. I do not believe it has anything to the lead engine being an Atlas.

Try reprogramming your SensorCar and make sure you program it to be a TMCC engine.

How would I program the sensor car to be a TMCC engine? The manual does not say anything about this and I have spent the past hour trying multiple TMCC engines and the sensor car resets everything to Legacy and I lose all control. I have program the car 10 times for 4 different engine numbers and nothing seems to change it since the minute I run over a sensor track it changes the engine to Legacy and Legacy sounds then plays the recording in TMCC sound control. I am really frustrated and feeling stupid right now.

I tried another 20 times. The TMCC Challenger stays in TMCC mode with the car but nothing else does.

Jeff, TMCC/Legacy is a one-way interface, the TMCC sender doesn't know or care what is on the other end of the transmission.  I don't know what's happening to your Atlas locomotives, but I can't see how it could possibly be on the sending end.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jeff, TMCC/Legacy is a one-way interface, the TMCC sender doesn't know or care what is on the other end of the transmission.  I don't know what's happening to your Atlas locomotives, but I can't see how it could possibly be on the sending end.

That is what has me baffled. I program the sensor car to the engine with all of the TMCC settings. Saves fine. Then when the sensor car runs over my sensor track the car is seen and the setting are changed in the remote to Legacy. It does this with a Lionel Trainmaster TMCC that was made fro TCA also.

Jeff, I will help you with this and send a note a little later today. 

In the meantime, please confirm you are running Legacy version 1.6 in your CAB2 and Legacy Command base,.

Railsounds posted:

In the meantime, please confirm you are running Legacy version 1.6 in your CAB2 and Legacy Command base,.

Thank you. Yes, I am running 1.6 on both with a ZWL as power, the wifi, ser2, and 4 sensor tracks.

Captaincog posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jeff, TMCC/Legacy is a one-way interface, the TMCC sender doesn't know or care what is on the other end of the transmission.  I don't know what's happening to your Atlas locomotives, but I can't see how it could possibly be on the sending end.

That is what has me baffled. I program the sensor car to the engine with all of the TMCC settings. Saves fine. Then when the sensor car runs over my sensor track the car is seen and the setting are changed in the remote to Legacy. It does this with a Lionel Trainmaster TMCC that was made fro TCA also.

I bought my sensor car to go with a Lionmaster Challenger (the original TMCC year 2000 edition).  Jeff indicates he is having every TMCC engine BUT a Challenger get switched to Legacy in the Cab2/base when paired with his sensor car.  So while I can confirm my TMCC Lionmaster Challenger doesn't have it's settings messed with when assigned the same ENG ID as the sensor car I have had a similar experience with the new PFE Legacy sound reefer and my TMCC Lionmaster Challenger.  The instructions for the PFE sound reefer indicates it's best to create a TRAIN via the Cab2 and access the PFE sound reefer via TrainLink.   However, when I create a TRAIN with the TMCC Challenger as the engine and add the PFE sound reefer then anytime anything is accessed on the PFE sound reefer the Challenger's settings for type change from TMCC to Legacy and the sound setting gets changed from RS as well.  And when that happens I can no longer control the Challenger (since it's now being sent Legacy commands).   I can pull up the Challenger's ENG number on the Cab2 and put the settings back to TMCC and RS but as soon as the PFE sound reefer is accessed for anything the Challenger's settings change to Legacy again.   I have confirmed my base and Cab2 are at 1.6  What I'm experiencing is very similar to Jeff from the sound of it.  It seems the software doesn't handle pairings between TMCC and Legacy but this seems a failure on the programming rather than a complete incompatibility on the hardware side.  It might be impossible to lashup a TMCC and Legacy engine.  But the software should be able to handle a TRAIN with a single TMCC engine and a Legacy sensor car or Legacy sound car or both.  

Railsounds posted:

Captaincog posted:

Just remember the little box may not work on all TMCC engines unless there is a way to address the TMCC boards on Atlas engines. I initially tried to make the sensor car work with an Atlas TMCC, yes, and older one, an the sensor car did not like it. The sensor car kept changing the engine setup to Legacy from TMCC which messed up controls. Just my experience.

 It should work fine with absolutely any TMCC engine. Happy to work through this with you to confirm. If it is turning the CAB2 back to Legacy mode, this means that the data beaming out of the sensor car is set as a legacy engine. I do not believe it has anything to the lead engine being an Atlas.

Try reprogramming your SensorCar and make sure you program it to be a TMCC engine.

So...if you program the sensor car with an engine number of a TMCC engine as opposed to a Legacy engine, then the sensor car will beam as a TMCC engine. Is that it? Don't you also have to set in, or previously have set in, the parameters of the TMCC engine sensor car combo and then press TxIR to set the sensor car to all the engine's parameters?  Then it, the combo, becomes a TMCC engine with an IR.

So then when you record a sensor track, you have to record with that TMCC engine? And press the set button on the remote to specify that TMCC engine? Can you record with any TMCC engine/sensor car combo and NOT press the set button to have any TMCC engine/sensor car combo trigger the program?

I guess what I am asking is the TMCC program only a mode 2 or mode 3 recording? And mode 1 recordings are the only ones where any Legacy engine will trigger a Legacy recording.

cjack posted:

Railsounds posted:

Captaincog posted:

Just remember the little box may not work on all TMCC engines unless there is a way to address the TMCC boards on Atlas engines. I initially tried to make the sensor car work with an Atlas TMCC, yes, and older one, an the sensor car did not like it. The sensor car kept changing the engine setup to Legacy from TMCC which messed up controls. Just my experience.

 It should work fine with absolutely any TMCC engine. Happy to work through this with you to confirm. If it is turning the CAB2 back to Legacy mode, this means that the data beaming out of the sensor car is set as a legacy engine. I do not believe it has anything to the lead engine being an Atlas.

Try reprogramming your SensorCar and make sure you program it to be a TMCC engine.

So...if you program the sensor car with an engine number of a TMCC engine as opposed to a Legacy engine, then the sensor car will beam as a TMCC engine. Is that it? Don't you also have to set in, or previously have set in, the parameters of the TMCC engine sensor car combo and then press TxIR to set the sensor car to all the engine's parameters?  Then it, the combo, becomes a TMCC engine with an IR.

So then when you record a sensor track, you have to record with that TMCC engine? And press the set button on the remote to specify that TMCC engine? Can you record with any TMCC engine/sensor car combo and NOT press the set button to have any TMCC engine/sensor car combo trigger the program?

I guess what I am asking is the TMCC program only a mode 2 or mode 3 recording? And mode 1 recordings are the only ones where any Legacy engine will trigger a Legacy recording.

I programmed the sensor track to a TMCC mode 2 recording for the Challenger combo and the sensor car does not change that control but try another TMCC engine with setting up the sensor car and it goes and resets the engine parameter on the Legacy controller to Legacy from TMCC. Now on another track I did a mode 1 recording to run multiple engines on different lines and as long as I did the recording for the TMCC locomotive under a TMCC command it worked fine.

Anyone else try a TMCC loco and setting?

Hello everyone.

Engineering has come up with a fix for the issue with SensorCar and TMCC locomotives.  I have placed the software upgrade on our website www.lionel.com in SUPPORT https://www.lionelsupport.com/service-documents/

The download is # 71-4295-505 Legacy Cab-2 Software Version 1.61.

This fix addresses the issue with Cab2 and SensorCar when used with a TMCC locomotive. Please note that after installing the update your Cab2 will show version 1.61. There is no base update necessary. Cab2 version 1.61 will work with Legacy Base version 1.60

For more detailed information please see the read me file in the download.

Thank you, Dean

Thanks Dean, very cool!  I'm going to give it a go!

I do have a question.  In the Read-Me, I find this.

If you are currently running LEGACY 1.2, your engine roster and other settings will be erased during the upgrade and must be re-entered.

Since the data is in the base, how does this update erase it?  I'm not running 1.2, but this is a curious statement anyway.

Lionel Dean posted:

Hello everyone.

Engineering has come up with a fix for the issue with SensorCar and TMCC locomotives.  I have placed the software upgrade on our website www.lionel.com in SUPPORT https://www.lionelsupport.com/service-documents/

The download is # 71-4295-505 Legacy Cab-2 Software Version 1.61.

This fix addresses the issue with Cab2 and SensorCar when used with a TMCC locomotive. Please note that after installing the update your Cab2 will show version 1.61. There is no base update necessary. Cab2 version 1.61 will work with Legacy Base version 1.60

For more detailed information please see the read me file in the download.

Thank you, Dean

Should this fix also solve the issue with creating a TRAIN with the new Legacy sound reefers and a TMCC engine where using TrainLink on such a configuration resets the TMCC engine to a Legacy engine and you lose control of it?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I do have a question.  In the Read-Me, I find this.

If you are currently running LEGACY 1.2, your engine roster and other settings will be erased during the upgrade and must be re-entered.

Since the data is in the base, how does this update erase it?  I'm not running 1.2, but this is a curious statement anyway.

I would bet SERIOUS money that what you're seeing is simply a result of "cut and paste" from the Read-Me for the PREVIOUS Cab2/Base update 1.6 which was for both Cab2 and Base.

I thought so too, just wanted to get it from the Horse's Mouth.

This was kept in the read me in case anyone needed to upgrade their software up to version 1.60. Just to be clear the 1.61 does not erase the roster. Upgrading from 1.2 erased the roster as the database was reconfigured. Since 1.3 no database changes have required the roster to be erased.

Mopac01, The reefer is on a different ID than the locomotive, so this is not applicable to the issue as it does not know the engine ID of the TMCC locomotive and cannot change the settings.

Lionel Dean posted:

Mopac01, The reefer is on a different ID than the locomotive, so this is not applicable to the issue as it does not know the engine ID of the TMCC locomotive and cannot change the settings.

Dean,

But it does know the engine ID of the TMCC locomotive if you create a TRAIN as indicated for best operation in the sound reefer's manual.  In establishing the TRAIN you've telling it the engine ID of (in my case) the TMCC engine and the ID of the additional unit in the consist which in this case is the ID of the sound reefer.  And once I do this, accessing the sound reefer with the CAB2 via the TrainLink button immediately changes my TMCC Challenger's type and sound settings to Legacy ones which renders the TMCC Challenger uncontrollable since the Cab2 has suddenly started sending Legacy commands to it.  Even the Cab2 button icons are changed.  If I address the engine by it's ID and go into Info and change it back to a TMCC engine and Railsounds it works fine with the Cab2 UNTIL I address the sound reefer via TrainLink at which point the TMCC Challenger I've linked with the sound reefer via a TRAIN gets it's Cab2 settings changed again and becomes inoperable. (CORRECTION - Not inoperable just unaccessible.  If it's going around the track the engine continues to do so - I just can't send it any more commands.  Or more precisely I CAN send it commands it's just that what the Cab2 is sending is now Legacy commands and since it's a TMCC engine it doesn't understand those commands which means I've "lost control" of the engine.)

Could the instructions be incorrect in telling you to use the Cab2 "TrainLink" for commands to access the reefer when it is in a train pulled/pushed by a TMCC locomotive since that locomotive will not respond to the "TL" commands when you toggle? At least it seems the "TL" you are doing is not returning to TMCC mode. Interested as a friend is getting one of these as a gift from his wife. No manual on the website?

Mopac01,

Glad to help, would you please give us the SKU of the "sound reefer" car that has the IR transmitter you are pairing with the TMCC Challenger.

Thanks,

SantaFeFan posted:

Mopac01,

Glad to help, would you please give us the SKU of the "sound reefer" car that has the IR transmitter you are pairing with the TMCC Challenger.

Thanks,

The sound reefer doesn't have an IR transmitter.  It's simply causing a similar type of issue in terms of a Legacy device interacting with a TMCC device and changing the Cab2 settings of the Legacy device (correction - changes the settings of the TMCC device).  

The sound reefer is the one sound reefer in the 3 pack PFE boxcar set that just shipped at the end of September, specifically Lionel 6-83545.  The manual (attached) on page 9 indicates "For best operation, your VISION Reefer car should be assigned to a Train. Be sure it has a different engine ID from any active locomotives on your layout."  I've followed the instructions to build the train with a TMCC Lionmaster Challenger (that has always operated without issue with my Cab2) and the PFE sound reefer.   Building the Train as specified on page 9 of the instructions works just fine and I get confirmation sounds from both the Challenger and the sound reefer.  But, similar to the sensor track issue in this thread (which I also started BTW) what can only be a programming issue in the Cab2 causes the TMCC engine's database settings to get changed when the sound reefer is accessed via the Cab2.   There is simply no other explanation that a programming bug causing this.

mopac01 posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

Mopac01,

Glad to help, would you please give us the SKU of the "sound reefer" car that has the IR transmitter you are pairing with the TMCC Challenger.

Thanks,

The sound reefer doesn't have an IR transmitter.  It's simply causing a similar type of issue in terms of a Legacy device interacting with a TMCC device and changing the Cab2 settings of the Legacy device.  

The sound reefer is the one sound reefer in the 3 pack PFE boxcar set that just shipped at the end of September, specifically Lionel 6-83545.  The manual (attached) on page 9 indicates "For best operation, your VISION Reefer car should be assigned to a Train. Be sure it has a different engine ID from any active locomotives on your layout."  I've followed the instructions to build the train with a TMCC Lionmaster Challenger (that has always operated without issue with my Cab2) and the PFE sound reefer.   Building the Train as specified on page 9 of the instructions works just fine and I get confirmation sounds from both the Challenger and the sound reefer.  But, similar to the sensor track issue in this thread (which I also started BTW) what can only be a programming issue in the Cab2 causes the TMCC engine's database settings to get changed when the sound reefer is accessed via the Cab2.   There is simply no other explanation that a programming bug causing this.

Thanks, we agree the reefer does not have an IR transmitter; and sensor track is not germane to this discussion.  OK, now to the concern you are asking about.

Please confirm the reefer and TMCC Challenger are on different TMCC IDs, and what ID they are set to.  Please also let us know the TR ID you are building.  Please also indicate the version of the Cab-2 and Base software you are using.

Thanks,

SantaFeFan posted:

mopac01 posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

Mopac01,

Glad to help, would you please give us the SKU of the "sound reefer" car that has the IR transmitter you are pairing with the TMCC Challenger.

Thanks,

The sound reefer doesn't have an IR transmitter.  It's simply causing a similar type of issue in terms of a Legacy device interacting with a TMCC device and changing the Cab2 settings of the Legacy device.  

The sound reefer is the one sound reefer in the 3 pack PFE boxcar set that just shipped at the end of September, specifically Lionel 6-83545.  The manual (attached) on page 9 indicates "For best operation, your VISION Reefer car should be assigned to a Train. Be sure it has a different engine ID from any active locomotives on your layout."  I've followed the instructions to build the train with a TMCC Lionmaster Challenger (that has always operated without issue with my Cab2) and the PFE sound reefer.   Building the Train as specified on page 9 of the instructions works just fine and I get confirmation sounds from both the Challenger and the sound reefer.  But, similar to the sensor track issue in this thread (which I also started BTW) what can only be a programming issue in the Cab2 causes the TMCC engine's database settings to get changed when the sound reefer is accessed via the Cab2.   There is simply no other explanation that a programming bug causing this.

Thanks, we agree the reefer does not have an IR transmitter; and sensor track is not germane to this discussion.  OK, now to the concern you are asking about.

Please confirm the reefer and TMCC Challenger are on different TMCC IDs, and what ID they are set to.  Please also let us know the TR ID you are building.  Please also indicate the version of the Cab-2 and Base software you are using.

Thanks,

The TMCC Lionmaster Challenger is Engine ID 83 (generally I use the last 2 digits of the number of the rolling stock/engine).  I'm not at home at the moment and don't remember the Engine ID of the reefer, except I'm pretty sure it's whatever the last 2 digits is of that reefer's number.   I know for sure it's NOT the same (83) as the Challenger's ID.  The TR ID I was building was 9 if I remember correctly.  (I erased it when it became clear - to me anyway - there was a software bug here.)  I believe I'd tried a two digit TR ID initially (11?) but didn't get a response from the Challenger (horn/whistle blast), but then figured the Challenger as a TMCC engine might not be able to respond to something higher than a single digit TR ID.  So I moved to 9.  And when I built the TR with ID 9 I DID get a horn/whistle confirmation from the TMCC Challenger and some sort of sound confirmation from the reefer as well.  My Cab2 and base are both at 1.60.   The update to 1.61 on my Cab2 will have to wait until I'm at home. 

I just took sensor track and sensor cars off my want list. That takes care of that. Now an appointment with the eye doctor to get the eyes uncrossed.

We have tried to create your failure, with the same setup and ID setting you indicated, and with V1.60 on the Cab-2/Base.  We do not have any problem as you describe your setup.  Perhaps you should clear the engine record on ID #83 and the engine record for the Vision Reefer(ID??).  Try adding them back into a new Train (9 or less as this is a TMCC loco) and let us know your results.

Thanks.

SantaFeFan posted:

We have tried to create your failure, with the same setup and ID setting you indicated, and with V1.60 on the Cab-2/Base.  We do not have any problem as you describe your setup.  Perhaps you should clear the engine record on ID #83 and the engine record for the Vision Reefer(ID??).  Try adding them back into a new Train (9 or less as this is a TMCC loco) and let us know your results.

Thanks.

Just so we're all on the same page, what steps to completely clear the engine record on ID 83?  I've never gotten rid of any engines or cars with engine IDs (like the Crane/Boom cars) before and want to make sure it is completely "gone."

Bring up # 83 under ENG, ACC, or whatever you are trying to use, press info and scroll with the big red knob to "clr". Press the button under that.

BTW, if you have something stored at a certain item/address and your sensor track won't record a new engine as it rolls over, you may have to clear that item/address. Then it will record. Ask me how I know that...

SantaFeFan posted:

We have tried to create your failure, with the same setup and ID setting you indicated, and with V1.60 on the Cab-2/Base.  We do not have any problem as you describe your setup.  Perhaps you should clear the engine record on ID #83 and the engine record for the Vision Reefer(ID??).  Try adding them back into a new Train (9 or less as this is a TMCC loco) and let us know your results.

Thanks.

One other thing that just came to mind, although I haven't specifically called attention to it above.  Engine 83 is the TMCC Lionmaster Challenger AND I HAVE A SENSOR CAR (the REA one) set for 83 as well, plus the sound reefer.  I'm wondering if the bug with the TMCC engine and sensor car was manifesting itself when ANYTHING legacy was getting accessed - sensor track OR sound reefer??  Hmmmm   I will update the Cab2 to 1.61 then retry creating the train with Engine 83 and the sound reefer with the sensor car still in the consist as well.  If that still exhibits the TMCC engine settings getting changed to Legacy then I'll try completely deleting Engine 83, the sound reefer and the sensor car and starting over.

mopac01 posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

We have tried to create your failure, with the same setup and ID setting you indicated, and with V1.60 on the Cab-2/Base.  We do not have any problem as you describe your setup.  Perhaps you should clear the engine record on ID #83 and the engine record for the Vision Reefer(ID??).  Try adding them back into a new Train (9 or less as this is a TMCC loco) and let us know your results.

Thanks.

One other thing that just came to mind, although I haven't specifically called attention to it above.  Engine 83 is the TMCC Lionmaster Challenger AND I HAVE A SENSOR CAR (the REA one) set for 83 as well, plus the sound reefer.  I'm wondering if the bug with the TMCC engine and sensor car was manifesting itself when ANYTHING legacy was getting accessed - sensor track OR sound reefer??  Hmmmm   I will update the Cab2 to 1.61 then retry creating the train with Engine 83 and the sound reefer with the sensor car still in the consist as well.  If that still exhibits the TMCC engine settings getting changed to Legacy then I'll try completely deleting Engine 83, the sound reefer and the sensor car and starting over.

Thanks for that important piece of information!  The issue you are experiencing has absolutely nothing to do with your vision Reefer car.  The problem is your IR Sensor Car, and version 1.61 of the Cab-2 code will solve your issues.

V1.61?   Missed that. I see it on the Lionel site but a few posts ago I only saw 1.60 mentioned.  Interesting and thanks for the heads up!

MartyE,

It was announced a few hours earlier in this thread by Lionel Dean, if you want to read the post and haven't yet seen it.

And holy cow he did.  Thanks!  Didn't go back far enough.

Welcome to the forum Dean...you may regret signing up.  LOL!

MartyE posted:

And holy cow he did.  Thanks!  Didn't go back far enough.

Welcome to the forum Dean...you may regret signing up.  LOL!

Dean may regret signing up, but WE certainly won't regret Dean signing up!   Welcome Dean. I for one am thrilled you're here.

SantaFeFan posted:

mopac01 posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

We have tried to create your failure, with the same setup and ID setting you indicated, and with V1.60 on the Cab-2/Base.  We do not have any problem as you describe your setup.  Perhaps you should clear the engine record on ID #83 and the engine record for the Vision Reefer(ID??).  Try adding them back into a new Train (9 or less as this is a TMCC loco) and let us know your results.

Thanks.

One other thing that just came to mind, although I haven't specifically called attention to it above.  Engine 83 is the TMCC Lionmaster Challenger AND I HAVE A SENSOR CAR (the REA one) set for 83 as well, plus the sound reefer.  I'm wondering if the bug with the TMCC engine and sensor car was manifesting itself when ANYTHING legacy was getting accessed - sensor track OR sound reefer??  Hmmmm   I will update the Cab2 to 1.61 then retry creating the train with Engine 83 and the sound reefer with the sensor car still in the consist as well.  If that still exhibits the TMCC engine settings getting changed to Legacy then I'll try completely deleting Engine 83, the sound reefer and the sensor car and starting over.

Thanks for that important piece of information!  The issue you are experiencing has absolutely nothing to do with your vision Reefer car.  The problem is your IR Sensor Car, and version 1.61 of the Cab-2 code will solve your issues.

I've upgraded the Cab2 to 1.61 (which thanks to the LCS WiFi module is a LOT slicker and easier than before).  And everything seems to be working great!  It was still odd that, as another poster earlier in the thread experienced, the TMCC Challenger didn't seem to have a problem with the sensor track on it's own (although his other TMCC engines did).  As long as I didn't make a Train involving the TMCC Challenger and the Vision sound reefer the sensor car set to the same ENG ID as the TMCC Challenger didn't seem to impact the TMCC Challenger.  I had made a Type 2 recording on the sensor track and on it blew the Challenger's whistle and activated a signalman car.  That recording "played" whenever the sensor car behind the Challenger crossed the sensor track without impacting the Challenger's Cab2 settings.  But add in the TRain with the Vision sound reefer and using TrainLink to access the sound reefer DID change the Challenger's Cab2 settings to Legacy.   However, since upgrading the Cab2 to 1.61 everything seems to work as one would expect and as described in the manual.  

After applying 1.61 I followed the instructions on the sensor car to use TxIR (to ensure the locking mentioned in the 1.61 readme file took place).   I then created Train 9 with the TMCC Challenger and the Vision PFE sound reefer.  Now accessing the sound reefer via TrainLink has no effect on the TMCC/Railsounds settings on the Challenger.  I then made a Type 2 sensor track recording while addressing the Challenger as ENG 83, again blowing the Challenger whistle and activating a signalman car in the consist.  Interestingly enough if I stop the Challenger then readdress it as TR 9 and take it (with the sensor car trailing) across the sensor track the recording doesn't play.  But stop TR 9 and readdress it as ENG 83 and go across the sensor track (same direction in each example) and the recording plays.  I didn't expect this behavior since it's the same physical engine and trailing sensor car in both cases but it's actually quite cool that it makes such a granular distinction.

I really appreciate the help on this.  It's really cool to be able to use a 16 year old TMCC engine with a brand new sensor car and sound reefer and pull it all together with the Cab2 and LCS.  

Lionel Dean posted:

Hello everyone.

Engineering has come up with a fix for the issue with SensorCar and TMCC locomotives.  I have placed the software upgrade on our website www.lionel.com in SUPPORT https://www.lionelsupport.com/service-documents/

The download is # 71-4295-505 Legacy Cab-2 Software Version 1.61.

This fix addresses the issue with Cab2 and SensorCar when used with a TMCC locomotive. Please note that after installing the update your Cab2 will show version 1.61. There is no base update necessary. Cab2 version 1.61 will work with Legacy Base version 1.60

For more detailed information please see the read me file in the download.

Thank you, Dean

I have had a really busy work week so far so when I saw this thread had some updates you can imagine I was very excited to read this and try the new Cab software. I downloaded it and updated my Cab module over the WiFi and then updated my layout Cab2.  I then tried out programming the sensor cars with the 2 TMCC locomotives, one Lionel and one Atlas, and I must say everything worked perfect! I am just so tickled and want to say thank you to Dean and everyone else at Lionel for looking at this and creating a fix. It is just really nice to know I am not completely crazy and to see the great support out there for the Legacy line.

Thank you again!