Track size question

Mike23 posted:

… I’m saying Lionel  O27 track is a track all its own with a 27” diameter circle AND a height of 7/16”.  I also have been saying any other “O” gauge track (O31, O34, O72 has a bigger diameter AND has a taller profile of 11/16”. 
*  I am being told/corrected to- Lionel made O27 track in many diameters. 
using the picture below O27 is one sized “O” track because of the lower profile.  To me it shows all other O track is taller at 11/16  

HELP!

Are you a glass-half-empty or glass-half-full kinda guy? Lionel O27 track does, indeed, have a lower profile than "regular" O-track (i.e. it's shorter from top-of-rail to roadbed) but also comes in more than a 27" diameter; three in fact, illustrated here (@ 27", 42", and 54"):

I'm a glass-half-full kinda guy and a strict follower of the "round-up" rule. Under these conditions, you were half-right and 100% correct. Good on ya!

Disclaimer: I have no idea if other makers produced O27 track in other diameters.

- The Other Guy

You would really need to go back through old catalogs to find out for sure  what track Lionel made in 7/16 inch rail height. I think they made 042 and maybe 054 in the 7/16 rail inch height. I know k-line, years ago, had an 072 diameter track in the 7/16 rail height. I don't think Lionel made an 072 diameter in the 7/16 rail height, but I could be wrong. What you show above was true all during the post war era. I know they made O gauge 031 and 027 track. I don't think the old Lionel Corporation made 072 after WW2, but I could be wrong about that. The proliferation of curve radius' really started in the late seventies, 1979, I think.

Marx also made 5 tie o-27 in 34 diameter.

Not sure what you are getting at with your question Mike. The other two posters provided some more info.

Each track system is as you say "all it's own." But you can match them (with a little extra effort), some brands easier to do than others. For example, Gargraves brand track is the same height as tubular 027 track and mating pins are available.

To add to what the other two guys said, you can use differing brands of 027 track together: You have MARX, Lionel, K-Line and Williams by Bachmann, plus a few obscure others. There's Ives and there was a Japanese firm making 027 track and switches.

In additional to the standard 27 inch radius of 027 track, there's also 42 inch and 54 inch that were made by Lionel. Lionel also made matching switches for the 42 inch radius. Not sure if for their 54 radius curves.

MARX also made a 34 inch radius curve in 027 profile. I don't think they made matching switches for that radius though.

The 0 gauge tubular track has even more curve options, especially now with Menards offering tubular 0 track. You'd have to check their website for the options. I think they have a 36 inch diameter 0 gauge curve, which no one has ever offered before.

----------------------------

Not sure what you are getting at with your question. Are you trying to build a layout and considering which track to use?

As you might realize, tubular 027 and 0 gauge track are now out of production, save for Menards new offerings in 0 gauge, and what is left in inventory from Williams by Bachmann (It's anyone's guess what Bachmann is thinking with their Williams line of trains... not looking encouraging though).

There's still plenty of tubular track out there, but you probably won't be able to call some dealer and get everything you need. You'll probably have to use several dealers. One dealer I looked at was out of stock of 42 inch 027 curves, but had 54 inch in stock. He had 42-inch switch tracks, but not in both left hand and right hand.

As a rule of thumb, the larger radius 027 curves and switches will be harder to find, only because it wasn't made for as long a period of time. That and it was popular when introduced. Another example: K-Line made a low profile switch with a very small switch box housing (when compare to previous K-Line and Lionel 027 switches), but those are getting harder to find. Not impossible, but not as easy as just calling a dealer and ordering a few of them.

Hope all of this helps you out.

otherguy, 

those 3 you pictured 27”  34” and 54”    Those were all considered low profile with a 7/16” height?  

Then O gauge track with the higher profile also came in those same diameters, and other diameters?  
if you were buying you’d have to be sure you were getting O34 low profile and not O34 high profile??

Generally speaking, Lionel and other tubular manufacturers in the more modern-ish era of multi-diameter curves used brown painted ties on O27 profile (7/16) track and black painted ties on O profile (11/16) track.

However it is not fool proof because on older track, tie color enough is not alone a defining  point. Marx used black ties on O27 profile curves, including the O34 curves. Lionel used black and metal ties on O and O27 profile track... Then there are a slew of other older manufacturers who did their own thing in O and O27 profiles.... (For a nice tangent, take a look at the Toy Train Track Museum https://railwaypages.com/toy-train-track-museum )

Mike23 posted:

otherguy, 

those 3 you pictured 27”  34” and 54”    Those were all considered low profile with a 7/16” height?  

In The Other Guy's illustration posted, it is not 34" curves, but 42" instead. So as he said, it is 27", 42" and 54".

Bmoran4's advice on tie color is good, especially since the wider radius tubular curves (excluding the MARX  34" 027 curves) were introduced in later years when the tie color was more uniform. In addition to the color, the sheet metal 027 ties are always a little smaller than the larger 0-gauge tubular ties. If you can see good photos of the track, or see it in person, the 0-gauge tubular also has a larger pin sticking out of the rails.

Sounds to me like you want to buy some track? Most dealers and train guys are knowledgeable about what they have and what they are selling. Very few train guys refer to the profile height of the track as a clarification point. It's either 027 track or 0-gauge tubular track. As far as curves go, the diameter or radius is the clarification point. And the wider radius curve track tends to be more expensive than the standard 27 inch curve of 027 track or the 31 inch curve of tubular 0-gauge.

Where you might encounter some confusion is with someone selling their relative's trains and they don't understand the difference, so they describe it as "Lionel track."

Again, in all the years I've been back in the hobby, I've never heard anyone distinguish or describe the difference between the two tracks based upon their profile height. It's either 027 or 0-gauge. The rail or track height just comes with the territory. But I would suppose this is why people think that 0-gauge track is more durable than 027 track: Because of the larger rail size and the larger tie size.

I've never had any problem with the durability of 027 track. But I'm not running a floor layout where I am periodically pulling apart the track and putting it back together. I guess 0-gauge could have an advantage there. I have a layout, that after I designed it, and tested it, the track got screwed into the layout surface.

Guys,

For a short time (about 5 years) K-line produced O72 curves for O27 profile track. Very hard to find.

I wish Menards would reproduce it, and O96 while they are at it.

Hi Mike,

Answers in order:

Mike23 posted:

those 3 you pictured 27”  34” and 54”    Those were all considered low profile with a 7/16” height?

Yes, they are all "low profile" (i.e. 7/16) but to clarify: they are 27", 42", and 54". I assume 34" was a typo.

Edited To Add: Worth echoing Brianel's point: what you're calling "low profile" track is called "O27" track in this world; in other words, anything labeled "O27" track - regardless the diameter - is that "low profile" stuff you're asking about. And before you ask: yes, this means that you can purchase O27 O27 track (or O27 O42 track; and so on … fun, right? ).

Mike23 posted:

Then O gauge track with the higher profile also came in those same diameters, and other diameters?

Almost. Lionel O-gauge tubular track (i.e. "higher profile" track) was never made in a 27" diameter curve (to the best of my knowledge); however, they were made at 42" and 54" diameters. So, in those 2 diameters, you have both a "low" and "high" profile option from Lionel. For reference, here are the diameter options for O27 vs. O-gauge tubular track that should be helpful:

Mike23 posted:

if you were buying you’d have to be sure you were getting O34 low profile and not O34 high profile??

Yes at O42 and O54 diameters (see above) but not for others. But a caveat: Lionel never (to my knowledge) made O34 track and, of course, there's a whole world of O27 and O-gauge tubular track from other manufacturers I know nothing about, let alone whether they were made "high" or "low" profile.

But I would second Brianel: with a little effort most, if not all, of this tubular track can be made to work together.

- The Other Guy

For additional reference, here are the diameter options for Lionel O-gauge ("High Profile") tubular track:

- TOG

Thank you, thank you!! For answering those exact questions!! Bro' hugs to everybody!! 

Epilogue:  I'm not buying track, In my little knowledge, I thought All O gauge track was taller than O27 and I've been discussing trains in that manner and offering basic information and such.  I now know it's not. There are two sizes that come in both heights.               I thought O27 was just another size of O gauge track because it has the "O".   But technically, you can buy O27 O42 track or..O42 track!  I know there are other brands but was just asking about Lionel. 

cliff notes: did not know there O42 and )54 came in two heights.

Thanks again for putting up with the questions!

Mike23 posted:

Thank you, thank you!! ...

- The Other Guy

I think, for now, that tubular track is best classified into the two height categories but, unfortunately, one of the height categories has been named/labeled based on a long-ago constraint of only being available in 27" diameter curves. Hence, based on tradition, we're stuck with O and O27 for the high and low profile tubular track types.

I inherited O27 sets, track, and PW accessories but very quickly realized the benefit of going with wider-diameter curves.  I own 34", 42", 54" and, yes, 72" curves in lower O27 profile.  I believe Marx was the only one to make 34", several made 42", and K-Line solely made 54" and 72".

I don't have data on O, but am pretty sure it's been offered in 31", 42", 54" and 72", maybe more.

 

Mike23 posted:

Then O gauge track with the higher profile also came in those same diameters, and other diameters?

Almost. Lionel O-gauge tubular track (i.e. "higher profile" track) was never made in a 27" diameter curve (to the best of my knowledge); however, they were made at 42" and 54" diameters. So, in those 2 diameters, you have both a "low" and "high" profile option from Lionel. For reference, here are the diameter options for O27 vs. O-gauge tubular track that should be helpful:

K-Line made O27 low profile tubular track in 72" curves. Pretty sure that's the absolute widest available for O27.

raising4daughters posted:

.. K-Line solely made 54" and 72"...

 Lionel 65113 O-27 54"  was a thing.

ADCX Rob posted:

raising4daughters posted:

.. K-Line solely made 54" and 72"...

 Lionel 65113 O-27 54"  was a thing.

You're right. I had a momentary brain lapse.