Very disappointing and frankly disturbing news....please read.

@Allan Miller posted:

I plan to add a bit of input to this thread, but am still contemplating what I might want to say since so many others have pretty much said it all. I likely will address the subject in more detail in my column in the August/September issue of the magazine after I have given it more thought.

Those who read our magazine know that for over some 15+ years now  I have been a strong and consistent supporter of the TCA. I have expressed concerns, on occasion, about the direction the Eastern Division's York Meet seems to be heading, but have always supported the TCA in its role as the leading (and largest) group in the toy train segment of our great hobby. I have been a TCA member since the early 90s, when I moved back to the mainland from Hawaii, and while I certainly very much enjoy the Eastern Division's York Meets, I also enjoy the TCA Quarterly magazine and, especially, visits to the headquarters and museum in Strasburg. And, of course, I strongly support any and all TCA efforts to promote our hobby. Unfortunately, it appears that the organization's leadership has decided to take the TCA in a direction that I, for one, am having a bit of a problem understanding. Definitely a disturbing development.

Allan, when I read this too I had not exactly thought to reply. Yeah, as someone who doesn't seem to be at a loss for words, I was briefly. Reading other people's comments I did exactly as you, thought about it some more.

Unfortunately reading more made me not keep my big mouth shut(I didn't have dinner yet either so it was side open). While I said the bare minimum, I spoke because we all know that this is a wrong move on their part. While in the short term for them it may save a couple of bucks, it will impact the hobby far worse than the dollars they save.

While the TCA is not just one group in the hobby, it is a substantial one at that. Like cutting off an arm we could say that this is like, that is how I view it anyway.

It has been stressed countless times about how small the hobby is among the great big world of things out there. For us it doesn't really seem to be that way at least in our eyes. Of course the hobby changes, and new things, new opportunities sprout up. That is indeed inevitable, but handicapping a source for boosting yourself seems illogical, and just plain foolish.

I do wonder exactly how they came to this decision to do this? Is it one person, a group of the higher ups, or something a bit more complicated. Whatever the reason was it is definitely the wrong decision by a longshot.

If they were in trouble with money, I would imagine that they could, or should try and find another way to raise money. I would imagine that part of this reason would be what socked us all the past few years, but we seem to much like our railroads, build on.

I haven't messaged them yet because I will probably say the wrong thing. I will probably do so after talking what to say over with a friend as I definitely don't want to be the hot head that I can be when shoot(without the O's but the I in there) hits the fan.

What else can be said? Apparently plenty. Maybe we should take a page out of Monty Python and The Life of Brian, "consider the lilies." "Oh he's picking on the flowers now!"

It's very odd to me that the decision was made without someone at TCA initiating a conversation with OGR and CTT. For the good of the hobby, it seems that some agreement could have been reached: perhaps a barter agreement with provisions for OGR and CTT to advertise with TCA in exchange for TCA advertising with OGR and CTT. What's the harm in at least having a conversation about possible options?

In my opinion, everyone in the hobby loses as a result of this move.

@eddie g posted:

The TCA has to cut back somewhere to save money. This is nothing new a lot of company's have cut back on their advertising. I don't believe that cutting back their advertising in OGR will have any effect on their membership. I believe that it will hurt OGR and CTT more than it will hurt the TCA,

Eddie...apparently you have not been reading the responses.  ALL of the hobby is affected by the lack of ALL of us supporting each other.  Frankly there are too many takers and not enough givers.  OGR never makes our advertising decisions by abandoning our base.  Look at the responses of how many found out about TCA through this forum!  As a side note, how would you feel if you could not post your "--- days till York" thread which is a promotion of a TCA event for all practical purposes.  Perhaps threads about TCA and the York meet don't help TCA at all according to your premise.

@BlueComet400 posted:

It's very odd to me that the decision was made without someone at TCA initiating a conversation with OGR and CTT. For the good of the hobby, it seems that some agreement could have been reached: perhaps a barter agreement with provisions for OGR and CTT to advertise with TCA in exchange for TCA advertising with OGR and CTT. What's the harm in at least having a conversation about possible options?

In my opinion, everyone in the hobby loses as a result of this move.

EXACTLY!

I have been getting into the hobby over the last 8 years.   OGR is my premier site.   THANK YOU.  Organized, monitored and working rules.   I joined the TCA after finding out about it on OGR.

I have been on the internet since the first attempt at a commercial browser.  With covid I saw conventions converted to online and most bungled it badly.   Not many managers understand the working of a network community.   

I see  problems in train hobby web sites attracting "younger" users.   Some of the sites are dated or not maintained well with a poor technology base.   Snail mail for registration still?  I see too many  with the latest forum entries months or even years ago, essentially dead.  This drives younger users away quickly. 

For an example of a community that converted very successfully from 15,000 or so face to face once a year to an online presence reaching now millions, see rootstech.org.

@Wingrunr21 posted:

I'm one of those younger people in the hobby (35 with young kids). I'm in the hobby because I was into it when I was a kid, not because I was drawn in recently.

I will say that this hobby in general needs to get with the times. I use my phone for everything. I'm a software engineer so I have great desktop machines, but my phone is constantly in use. This forum, and the people on it, are not exactly friendly to using phones (just go take a look at the Base 3 conversations) or consuming/sharing information in a way that resonates with younger folks. The explosion in popularity of the various YouTube channels isn't an accident. That content is resonating with people!

If the TCA is truly trying to cater to a younger audience, has this forum positioned itself to be a prime place to capture that demographic? Sounds like from the TCA's eyes, the answer is no.

THIS 100%  Furthermore, as another father with young family,  I see zero benefit in, and have zero interest in paying to join TCA, LCCA or any of the other big national clubs.  I am, however, a full member of a local club where my family and I can actively participate, work on the layout, and run trains.  There's good family value in that, and hands-on educational value at that, but paying for some membership to a national group gets me nothing except an emptier wallet as I see it. All those groups are out of touch with modern times.

Alan, I read all the replies. That has not changed anything that I said.

The TCA continues to shoot itself in the foot and claim it's stigmata.

Their pettiness lost them Lionel.  Their pedantic hall captains lost me and my membership.

Just turn out the lights when you are done snubbing the members.

Check out the combined circulation of CTT and OGR, according to the end of the year magazine distribution information.  TCA apparently sees no downside to cutting off more than 50,000 lovers of toy trains, model trains, or whatever term one wants to use. As a fifty year member, former Eastern Division officer, and lifetime lover of trains of all kinds, I cannot fathom the lack of wisdom being displayed by the current TCA leadership.

@eddie g posted:

The TCA has to cut back somewhere to save money. This is nothing new a lot of company's have cut back on their advertising. I don't believe that cutting back their advertising in OGR will have any effect on their membership. I believe that it will hurt OGR and CTT more than it will hurt the TCA,

Eddie G - with all due respect, I am reading all the reply's as well - I don't think you understand the multiple points being raised - TCA needs to listen more - and they need to revisit their market segment 'wants and needs' - TCA ranks are shrinking (average age is 75) - thus TCA is losing money - thus they need to cut spending - thus stop (reduce) advertising  -  this looks like a strategic and tactical review is needed to help save the TCA ship.  No one is saying don't buy tinplate or stop buying older trains - I gather that most in the hobby or entering the hobby are now online - and CTT and OGR are right there at our fingertips - do an online search for O Gauge trains - TCA is nowhere to be found!  OGR and CTT and eBay and Trainz and Lionel etc.. are all there.  This is what I picture at TCA York - a bunch of old men in a room looking at each other saying yes to each other - why should I ever go to YORK when I get everything online? and maybe at a better price?  time to wake up TCA.  wonder where I put that paper TCA membership card anyway?  FYI - I sent an email to TCA yesterday - when I get a response I will tell this group - I should get it any day now... 

I have been considering dropping my 23 year membership in the TCA for a while now. With this news of the direction they are taking, I think they made the decision for me.

I joined the TCA as a suggestion from a former colleague in 2000. I dutifully went to Spring and Fall Yorks for awhile, getting tremendous bargains on trains and equipment for my "someday" layout. I am fortunate to model only the LIRR and Pennsy, as those roads are in my family as employers. I do not collect any of the modern electronic laden stuff, except what I have bought by MTH over the years, so I got a Z-4000 to make that stuff talk. But, I intend to be an analog operator with my hands on the throttle, like when I was an engineer in the LI. I didn't operate those trains with my phone, so now I have dated myself. The long-winded statement here is that ALL of the above occurred because of the TCA and York. Now, I have not been there since 2007 simply because I have enough. So is the membership doing anything for me? I don't think so. I now buy sporadic rolling stock if it catches my eye (on the internet), but the York trips and the expense are over.

The "Quarterly" comes in the mail, I look it over and think the content is too familiar, then give it to my 97-year-old friend who is a former member who never went to York and collected all his stuff at yard sales years ago. The other monthly publication is a waste of paper. And yes, I have elected from them to send me real copies of each.

Looked through my records and found that I gave the TCA $70.00 last year in my dues payment, which included an additional amount extra to round up the number. I think this could be more well spent here at the OGR "table".

Now that I have begun, albeit slowly the above mentioned layout, the benchwork, track and switches all were purchased using the phone during Covid and delivered at my door by UPS. The shipping costs have been lower than if I schlepped to York and did the transactions there. So I guess its bye-bye TCA.

Alan,

I think you are being kind in trying to educate TCA because I believe they need OGR and CTT more than the other way around.  Not that surprised, however, at the TCA mismanagement.  I haven't looked at the financial statement in a few years but last time I did I was struck at how illiquid the organization was in the sense that if you wrote the value of the collection down to what is more likely a realizable figure, there is no equity in the organization and there may in fact still be a burn rate relative to expenses.  So now they are eating the seed corn.  Some rebranding there is in order if TCA is going to be around in the future.

Best regards.

For years I weighed the option of joining the TCA and yes, it was primarily for attending the York show. Even 30 years ago when I was in my 20s, it was a challenge to find a sponsor and even then, most of the old guard didn't want some "young buck"  buying trains that wouldn't be "appreciated." Fast forward now and nothing has changed. There's still that disconnect with reaching a younger demographic and don't know how pulling advertising will help. As much as I still like the feel of printed media, I've moved to digital. You have to keep up with the times. As mentioned 100+ times this forum has provided a wealth of information. I also regularly use the advertising headers to link to the supporting vendors. I never would have known 3/4 of them existed if it wasn't for their ads. Oh, and how did I learn about the TCA back in the early 90s? From ads in OGR and CTT!

Rob

My involvement in TCA is predicated on my ability to legitimize myself through membership as a buyer and seller on our forum, provided free of charge by Alan and the moderators.  This decision says only one thing to me:

"As our average age in TCA is 75, we are not interested in growth.  When the bulk of our membership terminates, we'll pocket whatever's left for our board of directors and shut down, or dedicate remaining funds to a 501(C)3 organization that is bound to be an unpopular choice.  Thank you for your patronage."

@eddie g posted:

Alan, I read all the replies. That has not changed anything that I said.

I am not surprised.

A little abrupt, Bob, but probably correct. Time for others (like me) to upgrade to the OGR signup and move on. Firing those that do not satisfy your lifestyle or wishes gets easier as you get older!

All right, everyone - listen up! This is too much pessimism for my comfort and plus it's without ANY facts whatsoever . Here is a bunch of evidence:

First of all, Fall 2022 York saw a BREAKTHROUGH event - the Social Media Mixer! All these people with YouTube channels got together and it was a huge milestone. In fact, for many of these YouTubers (Jason Stuckert, Chris Raines, Chris Montagna, Eric Siegel, etc.) who are O gauge enthusiasts, York has been a HOT TOPIC on their channels - and they know how to use modern media to reach a younger demographic. So, it totally looks like the York Meet is headed in the right direction. In fact, here's another example from a picture I got from online:

Second, who EVER said that these national organizations are not up-to-date? LCCA is Lionel's official club, and they are OF COURSE up-to-date, along with Lionel. By saying that, you are not only offending LCCA, but also Lionel as a brand. And TCA may SEEM like it is not up-to-date, but they are working towards it!

Third, we went through a full pandemic in 2020 and April 2021. York only reopened in Fall 2021 and we've only had three shows so far. So therefore, you are all speaking too soon. While sure, the average TCA age has been 75, I don't see any statistics about that anymore. For all you know, average TCA age may have dropped, as TCA has been expanding recruitment since pandemic restrictions have been lifted. Everything has really taken its time since COVID hit. And without ANY doubt, OGR is the best place to look for new members. And may I quote @OGR CEO-PUBLISHER:

"It is difficult to understand where that statistic is coming from since the average age on the forum has been trending downward among those of us still living.  We receive hundreds of applications on average per month and those are averaging in the mid 50's."

Which further proves my point above! There is no data that I am finding which proves all this pessimism going on.

And fourth, the point about TCA being a  "collector" organization by virtue of its name doesn't seem true at all. That's because I don't see that being a problem in today's market, even if the emphasis in recent times is more on operating trains and building layouts. After all, not all collectors may be operators, but ALL operators are definitely collectors! When we buy trains to run on our layouts, we are still "collecting," even though we may not focus on variations that much.

So, given that OGR’s digital magazine is a pretty popular source for finding out about TCA, TCA might be better served by actually codifying its relationship - making it like a law or an unbreakable bond - with OGR rather than cutting it off. So, I would suggest that everyone on this forum actually keep emailing TCA to reverse this decision, as it will be beneficial for both OGR and TCA as organizations.

Like it or not like every organization money is tight.  They feel they need to cut back and this is on their radar.  Don’t be surprised if you will see an increase in your TCA dues?  Maybe yes and maybe not but they will be trying to not only save bucks here but will be looking to gain money elsewhere, dues?  I can hear the grumbling now if dues for TCA goes up again?  Will there be more of a decline in the TCA ranks, Maybe?  Will people still be in TCA, probably?  Will TCA notice this thread and read it and reconsider, who knows?  
  I am a proud member of TCA and have been for the past 20 years.  I have been here at OGR for the past 16 years.  I have enjoyed both but as far as TCA, they do have to do something different with their publications.  I Agree their quarterly news publication is not really liked by most people.  Why not cut that out?  I have noticed at the last few YORK meets seeing more families walking the halls on Fridays.  That is a plus for TCA, but also what have they done to keep manufacturers there along with vendors. Not much?  
  To close where is TCA going to get more younger blood in their ranks by cutting out OGR and CTT?  Maybe they will start their own FORUM?  No way that’s going to happen if they want don’t want to contribute here.  I will continue to be a member both here at OGR and TCA, we shall see how this shakes out, only time will tell?  

Maybe let TCA know next week at YORK, how you feel about this?

ORG is part of the TCA consistency.   We all know what happens when you eroded your base. OGR is arguably centric to O gauge among others.   Distancing ones business from your target audience would appear to be a decision which warrants reconsideration.

Nickhil,

Average age of TCA member is 75?  I believe a more interesting metric would be the "median" age. Anyone know that number?  I believe that would be a better gauge of the status of membership and strength of TCA in the coming years. I just signed up a 40 year old, and an 11 year old for TCA membership. I'm trying, hope everyone is as well. TCA and this Forum is far too important to this hobby to not stay involved and encourage membership. I'm taking those two to York and I'm sure when they see and experience that...they'll be members for life!

I have been a member of TCA since 1970. I'm 80 so over the average age.  I joined when I lived in Michigan because it provided access to trains.  The only other option was garage sales, etc.  Going to meets was fun.  Operating a layout with the kids was fun.

Never been to York and now I have apparently missed the reason to go.  Started buying trains again in the 80's.  Bought all through the 90's up until today.  I collect, maybe will get around to a layout but am too busy now.  In the 80's and 90's you knew what was being made because you got the flyers from the manufacturers. They got your name from the TCA mailing list.  Then TCA stopped selling the list. Didn't matter because if you bought from someone they were smart enough to keep sending you catalogs.

By then ebay had cranked up and to be honest, that was about all you needed to find whatever you could want.  People on this site refrain from even using the name, 'ebay'.  You obviously don't live in South Texas where the nearest train show is five or six hours away, if there is one.

I have been made aware that this is not a collecting site.  That is fine, it is an interesting site.  It is fun reading about the problems people have and I generally enjoy the solutions offered.  I will keep paying my TCA dues because , well just because.

@BobRoyals posted:

My involvement in TCA is predicated on my ability to legitimize myself through membership as a buyer and seller on our forum, provided free of charge by Alan and the moderators. 

The irony there is that is just as easy, possibly easier, to legitimize yourself by engaging with members of this forum.

It's pretty easy to tell who your "dealing" with, and typically veteran members here with periodic posts yield many positive experiences on the buy and sell forum.

I've had enough "bum" deals from touted TCA members to know the playing field is level whether there is a TCA member involved the transaction or not.

TCA has not ceased supporting OGR. I am a member of TCA and I am committed to supporting OGR. I was surprised that TCA has quit advertising... I did not realize that they had an ad in O Gauge Railroading! So I looked at an arbitrary issue from a year ago and indeed there is an ad there. So, I agree that this is disappointing. Life has given us a lemon, now how do we use this to make lemonade? I want to support every organization in this hobby, whether it is a non-profit organization like TCA or a corporation like Lionel. So how do we do that?

• Some have said that they want to donate to OGR. There is a great way to do that. Click here and create a gift subscription for a friend. This helps OGR and it helps build the hobby.
• Some have said they want to complain to TCA. A more effective thing might be to get involved in helping them to reach younger people. Could you offer to give a gift membership in TCA to a young person you know and tell TCA that this gift is in gratitude for their past support for OGR and tell them that you are looking forward to a time when they will return as an advertiser?
• I don't know anyone on the national level of TCA, except for the editor of The Train Collectors Quarterly. I will be talking to him, but in the meantime I would appreciate at least one kind word about that newsletter. But I do know every member of the board of our local Nor-Cal division of TCA. The one thing I can do is to setup an internet page in our division encouraging our division members to sign up as OGR digital subscribers.

Now, about TCA not being relevant to modern equipment... I wrote the article in our local Nor-Cal Express newsletter about a new product that Lionel is releasing this fall. The article is about Lionel model number 2325030. It is in our April, 2023, issue on page 11. I challenge you to find any other article in any other news source that is informing their audience about this product!  You can find several dealers that are accepting pre-orders, but you can only read about it in our newsletter. It isn't in Lionel's catalog, yet. And it isn't on Lionel's internet site, yet. We are more than relevant, we are ahead of time.

@NIKHIL posted:

All right, everyone - listen up! This is too much pessimism for my comfort and plus it's without ANY facts whatsoever . Here is a bunch of evidence:

First of all, Fall 2022 York saw a BREAKTHROUGH event - the Social Media Mixer! All these people with YouTube channels got together and it was a huge milestone. In fact, for many of these YouTubers (Jason Stuckert, Chris Raines, Chris Montagna, Eric Siegel, etc.) who are O gauge enthusiasts, York has been a HOT TOPIC on their channels - and they know how to use modern media to reach a younger demographic. So, it totally looks like the York Meet is headed in the right direction. In fact, here's another example from a picture I got from online:

Second, who EVER said that these national organizations are not up-to-date? LCCA is Lionel's official club, and they are OF COURSE up-to-date, along with Lionel. By saying that, you are not only offending LCCA, but also Lionel as a brand. And TCA may SEEM like it is not up-to-date, but they are working towards it!

Third, we went through a full pandemic in 2020 and April 2021. York only reopened in Fall 2021 and we've only had three shows so far. So therefore, you are all speaking too soon. While sure, the average TCA age has been 75, I don't see any statistics about that anymore. For all you know, average TCA age may have dropped, as TCA has been expanding recruitment since pandemic restrictions have been lifted. Everything has really taken its time since COVID hit. And without ANY doubt, OGR is the best place to look for new members. And may I quote @OGR CEO-PUBLISHER:

"It is difficult to understand where that statistic is coming from since the average age on the forum has been trending downward among those of us still living.  We receive hundreds of applications on average per month and those are averaging in the mid 50's."

Which further proves my point above! There is no data that I am finding which proves all this pessimism going on.

And fourth, the point about TCA being a  "collector" organization by virtue of its name doesn't seem true at all. That's because I don't see that being a problem in today's market, even if the emphasis in recent times is more on operating trains and building layouts. After all, not all collectors may be operators, but ALL operators are definitely collectors! When we buy trains to run on our layouts, we are still "collecting," even though we may not focus on variations that much.

So, given that OGR’s digital magazine is a pretty popular source for finding out about TCA, TCA might be better served by actually codifying its relationship - making it like a law or an unbreakable bond - with OGR rather than cutting it off. So, I would suggest that everyone on this forum actually keep emailing TCA to reverse this decision, as it will be beneficial for both OGR and TCA as organizations.

OGR would be interested in talking to all of those that participated in that Social Media Mixer....particularly the ones that are member on this forum and headed up the event.  Contact me via my email.  We may want to team up with you and/or contract for certain services you may offer!

@John in California posted:

TCA has not ceased supporting OGR. I am a member of TCA and I am committed to supporting OGR. I was surprised that TCA has quit advertising... I did not realize that they had an ad in O Gauge Railroading! So I looked at an arbitrary issue from a year ago and indeed there is an ad there. So, I agree that this is disappointing. Life has given us a lemon, now how do we use this to make lemonade? I want to support every organization in this hobby, whether it is a non-profit organization like TCA or a corporation like Lionel. So how do we do that?

• Some have said that they want to donate to OGR. There is a great way to do that. Click here and create a gift subscription for a friend. This helps OGR and it helps build the hobby.
• Some have said they want to complain to TCA. A more effective thing might be to get involved in helping them to reach younger people. Could you offer to give a gift membership in TCA to a young person you know and tell TCA that this gift is in gratitude for their past support for OGR and tell them that you are looking forward to a time when they will return as an advertiser?
• I don't know anyone on the national level of TCA, except for the editor of The Train Collectors Quarterly. I will be talking to him, but in the meantime I would appreciate at least one kind word about that newsletter. But I do know every member of the board of our local Nor-Cal division of TCA. The one thing I can do is to setup an internet page in our division encouraging our division members to sign up as OGR digital subscribers.

Now, about TCA not being relevant to modern equipment... I wrote the article in our local Nor-Cal Express newsletter about a new product that Lionel is releasing this fall. The article is about Lionel model number 2325030. It is in our April, 2023, issue on page 11. I challenge you to find any other article in any other news source that is informing their audience about this product!  You can find several dealers that are accepting pre-orders, but you can only read about it in our newsletter. It isn't in Lionel's catalog, yet. And it isn't on Lionel's internet site, yet. We are more than relevant, we are ahead of time.

John...I like your bullet points...hopefully folks will support both the TCA and the magazines!

@ToledoEd posted:

Nickhil,

Average age of TCA member is 75?  I believe a more interesting metric would be the "median" age. Anyone know that number?  I believe that would be a better gauge of the status of membership and strength of TCA in the coming years. I just signed up a 40 year old, and an 11 year old for TCA membership. I'm trying, hope everyone is as well. TCA and this Forum is far too important to this hobby to not stay involved and encourage membership. I'm taking those two to York and I'm sure when they see and experience that...they'll be members for life!

Nikhil was quoted the TCA from the message Alan got on the first page Ed.

@NIKHIL posted:

All right, everyone - listen up! This is too much pessimism for my comfort and plus it's without ANY facts whatsoever . Here is a bunch of evidence:

First of all, Fall 2022 York saw a BREAKTHROUGH event - the Social Media Mixer! All these people with YouTube channels got together and it was a huge milestone. In fact, for many of these YouTubers (Jason Stuckert, Chris Raines, Chris Montagna, Eric Siegel, etc.) who are O gauge enthusiasts, York has been a HOT TOPIC on their channels - and they know how to use modern media to reach a younger demographic. So, it totally looks like the York Meet is headed in the right direction. In fact, here's another example from a picture I got from online:

Second, who EVER said that these national organizations are not up-to-date? LCCA is Lionel's official club, and they are OF COURSE up-to-date, along with Lionel. By saying that, you are not only offending LCCA, but also Lionel as a brand. And TCA may SEEM like it is not up-to-date, but they are working towards it!

Third, we went through a full pandemic in 2020 and April 2021. York only reopened in Fall 2021 and we've only had three shows so far. So therefore, you are all speaking too soon. While sure, the average TCA age has been 75, I don't see any statistics about that anymore. For all you know, average TCA age may have dropped, as TCA has been expanding recruitment since pandemic restrictions have been lifted. Everything has really taken its time since COVID hit. And without ANY doubt, OGR is the best place to look for new members. And may I quote @OGR CEO-PUBLISHER:

"It is difficult to understand where that statistic is coming from since the average age on the forum has been trending downward among those of us still living.  We receive hundreds of applications on average per month and those are averaging in the mid 50's."

Which further proves my point above! There is no data that I am finding which proves all this pessimism going on.

And fourth, the point about TCA being a  "collector" organization by virtue of its name doesn't seem true at all. That's because I don't see that being a problem in today's market, even if the emphasis in recent times is more on operating trains and building layouts. After all, not all collectors may be operators, but ALL operators are definitely collectors! When we buy trains to run on our layouts, we are still "collecting," even though we may not focus on variations that much.

So, given that OGR’s digital magazine is a pretty popular source for finding out about TCA, TCA might be better served by actually codifying its relationship - making it like a law or an unbreakable bond - with OGR rather than cutting it off. So, I would suggest that everyone on this forum actually keep emailing TCA to reverse this decision, as it will be beneficial for both OGR and TCA as organizations.

Nikhil, I am with you 100% that a great bunch of YouTuber's are definitely helping out both OGR and the TCA. Heck, if it wasn't for Eric Siegel and his quirky videos(just him being him), I would probably have not found out about OGR(he constantly would plug it in his older videos). I've had the pleasure of meeting a few of the guys up in that picture, and again, they have pointed the way to this forum on their YouTube videos as well.

A couple of years ago, there was a post about how the Hobby was doomed because there was no youngblood. It had gone a day or two before I commented on it stating about a good bunch of YouTube personalities that were making videos and showing off their layouts. I think that since then, some of the doom and gloom folks have seen that there is young people that are interested in this hobby, and will be great ambassadors to future generations.

The TCA should know that there is younger members, but they probably don't see as much as they would like. Things are still changing, and an online presence has helped quite a bit to the hobby. I'm sure that they don't see it like we do, that is evident with this decision of letting the chips fall where they may.

Two more things, I joined the OGR Forum on December 10th 2016. There was a lot going on back then which I won't get into, but I needed to get back into the hobby after about 17 years out of it. After spending months looking at some of the topics as a guest or lurker, I joined. I didn't comment right away, nor really say anything on any topic. It wasn't until I saw an interesting project of spray-painting roadbed with textured paint. I came out of my shell and asked what was that? I contacted the poster about it afterwards for some advice on things, particularly about York. "What's the TCA?", that is how they came into the picture. The person I contacted was none other than our resident retired Doctor Peter AKA Putnam Division. After that, York came and went, and I have posted and responded to a number of topics, being the younger person out of those I follow. I think of all of my pals as older brothers, especially since my oldest is 10 years older than me.

Okay, on to the second thing. I still have not messaged the TCA, I did ask for some advice, which was directed at our resident Gentleman of the OGR Forum. We seem to be both in the same mindset of not knowing what the heck to say to them. I suspect that maybe we both feel that it would be a deaf ears situation, or maybe they don't care. He is not surprised with the TCA's decision and also shares everyone's feelings on the matter as well. What more can be said that already hasn't? Well, I am sure I will come up with something else to say as I tend to be able to put words together to express what I feel. I do have to message Mark back before the night ends, I don't like leaving someone hanging who I feel is a friend. I'll do that after dinner.

I know, I lied, Alan, Allan, Ed, Dave, Rich, and all the rest that make OGR Magazine, and OGR Forum possible, we got your back. Just let us know(or let me know, whomever) what all else we can do to help with this foolishness on the TCA's part. We appreciate all that the magazine and the forum have to offer, you guys definitely  know that, and all of us see that with the outreach of all contributors in the community do here.

Dave

Last thing before I eat. Picture is worth a thousand words.

Yeah, that's my shirt. 🐻👍

@NIKHIL posted:

All right, everyone - listen up! This is too much pessimism for my comfort and plus it's without ANY facts whatsoever . Here is a bunch of evidence:

First of all, Fall 2022 York saw a BREAKTHROUGH event - the Social Media Mixer! All these people with YouTube channels got together and it was a huge milestone. In fact, for many of these YouTubers (Jason Stuckert, Chris Raines, Chris Montagna, Eric Siegel, etc.) who are O gauge enthusiasts, York has been a HOT TOPIC on their channels - and they know how to use modern media to reach a younger demographic. So, it totally looks like the York Meet is headed in the right direction. In fact, here's another example from a picture I got from online:

Could not agree more! Though my channel is nowhere near in size to these guys, I too have found people getting into the hobby through YouTube. I once had a gentleman contact me asking questions about a Lionel locomotive. He was getting into the hobby and wanted to know how to run it properly. Thanks to my video, I was able to get him going!

Social media has its ups and downs but somewhere in between is a glimmer of light. Here's to these guys for spending the resources to make this hobby thrive!

If you want to get connected to my generation, get them hooked through videos and work up from there.

@ToledoEd posted:

Nickhil,

Average age of TCA member is 75?  I believe a more interesting metric would be the "median" age. Anyone know that number?  I believe that would be a better gauge of the status of membership and strength of TCA in the coming years. I just signed up a 40 year old, and an 11 year old for TCA membership. I'm trying, hope everyone is as well. TCA and this Forum is far too important to this hobby to not stay involved and encourage membership. I'm taking those two to York and I'm sure when they see and experience that...they'll be members for life!

Hi @ToledoEd,

I'm not saying that the average age is 75. I was just pointing out someone else's observation and correcting it, saying that that may no longer be the case. as far as "median" age is concerned, I agree that that is a better gauge of membership status, but I don't know the median age.

Anyone else know?

I found this article from October 19th 2022, just last year.

Model Railroading Gains Steam, Saturday Evening Post Article

This article covers all model railroading scales it looks like, so it covers all the bases. It is interesting as they say from Bob Grubba of Broadway Limited about 2 studies done 10 years apart on the average age of people in the hobby.

"Both reported that the average age of a model railroader was 56, and that few young people were getting involved. “If new people hadn’t been entering into the hobby, the average age should have gone from 56 to 66, but it didn’t. It stayed the same,” Grubba says."

Also quote from Charles Ro Jr.

"“We’re kid-friendly. On Saturdays, we’ll get 30 or 40 kids to come to the store,” Ro says. “That’s what the hobby needs.”

I could go on, but I think that sums up what we should know about the hobby being in good hands. Every time I go to my local train store, there is at least one kid with their parent(s) in the store. There has only been a few occasions where that has not been the case, mainly because I was a very early bird. My local train store is O Scale only. There may be a few things laying around(like AF), but no other scales I can think of.

I view my model railroading as evangelical I have introduced at present 1to this wonderful hobby, sadly he went N gauge. I still count this as a success.

I also introduced running trains to my grand daughters. They like it and also like building/working on the layout. Working on the layout with my grand children is one of the highlights of my life.

I have 3 offers to build small Christmas tree layouts one which will probably happen.(yep I have that much extra track).

I do this not to prolong the hobby, which however is a secondary benefit, but because I love model trains so much.

IMHO - JM2C

Steven Taylor

@Pre-War Steve posted:

When I came back to the hobby about 30 years ago, I wanted to join TCA because, well, “that’s what you did.”  Problem was, living overseas, I couldn’t find two sponsors. After moving back to the states,  I found my two sponsors and joined immediately.  I joined TTOS about the same time, although I stopped being a member of that organization when I grew tired of what I considered a less than  subpar magazine… and the near constant arguing and bickering among the membership at my local chapter meetings: we’re supposed to be having fun, right?  I joined LCCA about two years ago, mainly for the digital catalog archive.

I’m primarily a collector and occasional operator, and I look forward to each issue of the TCA Quarterly.  Yes, the ranks are getting older and the interests of newer O gauge enthusiasts is leaning toward modern production items with all the associated “bells and whistles” (and associated challenges/headaches), but I think it still serves a purpose, for which I’m thankful it still exists.  I’ve met several members at local division meets and other venues who — while focused on pre- or postwar Lionel trains — are also into Lionel’s (and other manufacturers’)  modern production items, not to mention HO, S, and even 1 gauge.  The way I see it, we’re all collectors in some way, and I’m thankful the TCA exists and wish it continued “good health.”  Still, for reasons mentioned above, there are some challenges it needs to address… and soon.

The LCCA has recently announced that there will soon be significant additions to the LCCA Digital Archive. These will show up towards the end of the year as the website is being overhauled. The goal is to maintain and  significantly increase the value of club membership.

I have posted to TCA website a general inquiry stating my desire to keep my TCA membership for the good of the hobby but I personally value OGRRF more than TCA for its contribution to my railroading efforts.  In my mind, TCA is an option.  OGRRF is not.  Thanks to all you members/contributors on this forum!  This 57 year old is going to be on here for the foreseeable future.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

"“We’re kid-friendly. On Saturdays, we’ll get 30 or 40 kids to come to the store,” Ro says. “That’s what the hobby needs.”

I could go on, but I think that sums up what we should know about the hobby being in good hands. Every time I go to my local train store, there is at least one kid with their parent(s) in the store.

But the key question is, are these kids (or their parents) buying anything substantial?

I see kids at the local model train shows I go to, but I rarely see them or their parents buying anything. Nor do I see or hear of kids with their own layouts. That, to me, is the true measure of if kids are into the hobby or it's just a passing phase.

@p51 posted:

But the key question is, are these kids (or their parents) buying anything substantial?

I see kids at the local model train shows I go to, but I rarely see them or their parents buying anything. Nor do I see or hear of kids with their own layouts. That, to me, is the true measure of if kids are into the hobby or it's just a passing phase.

Lee, you know I can't answer that. Only Charles Ro Jr. can as that came from his mouth. Being that I'm not up by him, I can't even say what the store looks like. Given what I've heard about his late father, it could be possible that the parents have the kids help out with the layout, much like what we've seen and heard about on here. Some of the members are grandparents, and have their grandkids come over often as possible. Again, I can't speak on if they get into the hobby or not, but I can say my one uncle was involved in the hobby, and I am now.

We are straying here from the OP about events in the OGR business. I suggest we take a step back and take a deep breath, and wait for it all to shake out. Lets not get too emotional!

OTOH, I ordered my OGR digital subscription this morning, which is less than my former TCA dues, and it provides a wealth of info that cannot be found anywhere else.

Now, what do I do with my collection of OGRR magazines from issue one to ? (somewhere in the early 2000s)

TCA's cancelling their 1/10 page "show the flag" advertisement in OGR has set off a firestorm.

Not advertising in OGR doesn't mean "OGR and the OGR forum can go to the devil".  It's a business decision based on the marginal benefit of "preaching to the choir".  TCA isn't the only organization that has pulled its advertising from the enthusiast press.

That said, there are valid criticisms of TCA.  One that comes to mind is the relative absence of MPC Lionel in the Train Collector's Quarterly.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

. . . Finally, the team here at OGR wishes the National TCA the very best as they endeavor to build awareness of their group. We have enjoyed our relationship with them over many decades, and hope that we have future opportunities to serve and work with them to support and grow our great hobby.

I must commend you, Alan, for taking the high road.  

I would have been tempted to erase anything having to do with TCA or the York shows, but that would not serve the greater good, and you wisely avoided that mistake.

@cbq9911a posted:

TCA's cancelling their 1/10 page "show the flag" advertisement in OGR has set off a firestorm.

Not advertising in OGR doesn't mean "OGR and the OGR forum can go to the devil".  It's a business decision based on the marginal benefit of "preaching to the choir".  TCA isn't the only organization that has pulled its advertising from the enthusiast press.

That said, there are valid criticisms of TCA.  One that comes to mind is the relative absence of MPC Lionel in the Train Collector's Quarterly.

First of all...it is a 1/6th page (2 of them...one in print and one in the digital magazine.  I have to disagree with you as far as your "marginal benefit" statement.  Perhaps you don't realize that for this segment of the hobby, OGR and CTT are the two publications most folks know about and are generally at the top of most search engines.  New folks that are interested in this segment are going to find OGR and the forum almost immediately doing even basic searches.  I have stated here on this forum many times that we have hundreds of new applications for membership each month!  Those folks are certainly not part of "the choir".  Read the responses of how many members found out about the TCA and other train related organizations by finding this forum and our magazine FIRST.  This is one of the only locations on the web that you can find sub-forums about the major 3-rail clubs and organizations each having a special category and banner ad and listing in the featured topics that link directly to their websites ... all without having to leave the forum.

I stand corrected on the size of the advertisement.

There is a basis for an article in "why TCA cut its advertising in OGR?"  And that takes some digging and talking to people.  And acknowledging the answer, even if it's uncomfortable.

Some answers are open for discussion; "Advertising is preaching to the choir".  Others are not; "Health care costs for employees went up 15%".  And some are in the "What were they thinking?" category.