What American Freedom Train Cars Have Been Manufactured?

Lots of "Fantasy" Freedom Train stuff is out there. I laughed the first time I saw the Freedom Train dome car. As the crews used the train to get to the next sites and it didn't bring anyone but some press along from trip to trip (not to mention that most of the moves were made at night), a dome car would have been quite ridiculous. Mostly, they used old NYC baggage cars. Cars 203 and 205 (the obs cars) both site rotting away at Elbe, WA next to a caboose hotel that isn't affiliated with the Mt Rainer RR:

If I ever did 3-rail, yeah, I'd have to have a Freedom Train for it.

I am pretty sure the K-Line cars were 18 inch in length.

rdg_fan posted:

I am pretty sure the K-Line cars were 18 inch in length.

As Lee mentioned, except for the crew cars, nearly all of the rest of the AFT cars were NYC 70' baggage cars.  Four of the five crew cars were Reading 72' commuter cars.  Only the flat cars, the "Tool Car" and the "Sleeping Car" were longer.  K-Line's 18" length was basically correct for all the cars it made except for the "Sleeping Car", #201, which was an 85' Pullman.

Lionel actually has done better with their cars, releasing a correct length #201 (their sound car), using new tooling for their AFT/Reading commuter cars (recent catalog), and using what was new tooling for their AFT/NYC baggage cars when their recent line of AFT cars were first cataloged.  I hope they make the remaining cars as that would make an impressive set (40 feet without engines).

Lionel has added 4 of the 5 AFT passenger cars in the 2020 catalog (#202 through #205).  EDIT: #201 Sleeper was previously released.  Overall they look very nice and capture the look and feel of the prototype.  Since no 2 cars are alike, Lionel had to make some compromises.  

If the catalog drawing and promotion photos are accurate, #203 Bar Car, #204 Office Car, and #205 Press Car (Observation) are all made from the same mold with the porch end of #205 modified.  The window count is 20 on each side where the prototype is 19 (with one side of #204. having 18).  The 6 roof vents are good for #204 but wrong number and type of vent for the others.  #202 Pie Car has the right window count (14) and placement and freight doors, but 16 roof vents, all the wrong type and placement. I'm not sure why they did this, unless they are using the molds to represent other passenger cars in other road names.  The vents would be the easiest part to fix for someone inclined to do so,

This is not a criticism of Lionel.  It is not practical for them to make 5 different molds for these 5 cars, and the market would not bear the increased cost.  They compromised where they had to, and I am excited that they seem committed to finish the train.

In comparison, the K-line cars have 18 windows (though they look too tall and rectangular) and no roof vents or seams, just a smooth surface.  #202 Pie Car has the right window count (14).  The biggest problem is that the 5 passenger cars are very hard to find!

So, I'll be placing my Lionel order.

Bob

I've been watching the o-gauge recent releases for the AFT and came up with this chart - which probably/possibly(?) has some errors:

K-Line AFT Numbering
-------------------------------
K4601-30040 - AFT Showcase Car #40, 18"
K4601-30041 - AFT Showcase Car #41, 18"
K4601-30101 - AFT Showcase Car #101, 18"
K4601-30102 - AFT Display Car #102, 18" "Exploration and Expansion" 1796-1806 & 1806-1816
K4601-30103 - AFT Display Car #103, 18" "Growth of the Nation" 1816-1826 & 1826-1836
K4601-30104 - AFT Display Car #104, 18" "Origins" 1836-1846 & 1846-1856
K4601-30105 - AFT Display Car #105, 18" "Innovations" 1856-1866 & 1866-1876
K4601-30106 - AFT Display Car #106, 18" "Human Resources" 1876-1886 & 1886-1896
K4601-30107 - AFT Display Car #107, 18" "Sports" 1896-1906 & 1906-1916
K4601-30108 - AFT Display Car #108, 18" "Performing Arts" 1916-1926 & 1926-1936
K4601-30109 - AFT Display Car #109, 18" "Fine Arts" 1936-1946 & 1946-1956
K4601-30110 - AFT Display Car #110, 18" 1956-1966 & 1966-1976
K4601-30201 - AFT Pullman Sleeper #201, 18"
K4601-30202 - AFT Diner #202, 18"
K4601-30203 - AFT Lounge Car #203, 18"
K4601-30204 - AFT Parlor Car #204, 18"
K4601-30205 - AFT Observation Car #205, 18"
K4601-30111 - Museum of America's Freedom Trains Display Car #111 1976-1986 & 1986-1996

Lionel AFT Numbering
-------------------------------
6-83111 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 4-Pack (Exhibit Cars 101, 102, 103, Power Car 111 with generator sounds)
6-83116 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 2-Pack (Exhibit cars 104 & 105)
6-83119 - American Freedom Train 21" StationSounds Exhibit Car (Sleeper Car 201)
6-83589 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #1 (Exhibit Cars 106 & 107)
6-83592 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #2 (Exhibit Cars 108 & 109)
6-84226 - American Freedom Train Add-On 2-Pack #4 (Exhibit Cars 100 & 110)

2027340 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 1 (Diner Car # 202 and Lounge Car # 203)
2027350 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 2 (Parlor Car # 204 and Observation Car # 205)

MTH ATF Numbering
-----------------------------
20-64213 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Passenger Set (Smooth)  (4 Cars: 100 [Baggage Car]; 208 [Observation Car]; 212 [Coach # 1]; 214 [Coach # 2] )
20-64214 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Sleeper/Diner Passenger Set (Smooth)  (2 Cars: 207 [Diner]; 220 [Sleeper] )
20-64215 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Baggage/Coach Passenger Set (Smooth)  (2 Cars: 33 [Baggage] ;210 [Coach] )
20-64216 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Full Length Vista Dome Passenger Car (Smooth)  (unnumbered AFT car)

Paul,

The K-Line and Lionel AFT cars are pretty good models of the real AFT (yes, there are errors).  The MTH AFT set is their standard generic streamlined passenger set in AFT colors.  These cars are nothing like the AFT cars except maybe for the two baggage cars (one has doors that did not get painted).  The MTH baggage cars could pass as either of the two AFT storage cars.  Other than that, the rest of the MTH cars are pure fantasy but they do look good.  I have all the MTH cars and run them at shows behind my fantasy PRR GG1 in bicentennial colors.

I currently have these:

6-83111 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 4-Pack (Exhibit Cars 101, 102, 103, Power Car 111 with generator sounds)
6-83116 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 2-Pack (Exhibit cars 104 & 105)
6-83119 - American Freedom Train 21" StationSounds Exhibit Car (Sleeper Car 201)
6-83589 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #1 (Exhibit Cars 106 & 107)
6-83592 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #2 (Exhibit Cars 108 & 109)
6-84226 - American Freedom Train Add-On 2-Pack #4 (Exhibit Cars 100 & 110)

I am looking closely at the newest Lionel offerings:

2027340 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 1 (Diner Car # 202 and Lounge Car # 203)
2027350 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 2 (Parlor Car # 204 and Observation Car # 205)

Wondering if I got any of the MTH would the diaphragms line up? Thinking probably not getting the MTH cars because a couple which they offer in their sets I already have from my Lionel sets.

I've seen a lot of AFT cars for sale out there and some I do not think were with the genuine 1975-1976  AFT. I'm using this website to determine the genuine ones: http://www.freedomtrain.org/am...ain-consist-main.htm. Since I've got 13 of the cars that had the interior displays, really looking for the "showcase" cars # 40 and 41.

I've already for the GS-4 4449 loco.

Paul, The Freedom Train link doesn't work.  I am guessing the three dots indicate it was truncated, and can't work.  I can find the complete roster which includes fork lifts, trucks...  But don't see the consist.  I do see that when I saw it in Richmond, Virginia it was October 8-14, 1976.  I graduated from college in Pennsylvania that spring, and missed seeing it in Pittsburgh, Brackenridge, or Altoona.  Fortunatly it made it to Richmond where I was working in the fall.

Sorry the link doesn't work. Hmmmm.. - yes it is kind of long.

Maybe it will work this way: http://www.freedomtrain.org/am...ain-consist-main.htm

On that same page is a link to a diagram showing how the cars are to be parked plus the length of each car. It was a super long train!

Kind of funny that cars # 40 and 41 were renumbered at one stop because somehow they were not in sequence. The crew wouldn't move the train without the cars being in the proper sequence! Solution? Repaint the numbers on the cars .

That link works.  Now I see I was at the right place.  Thank you 

And I have to take a better look at the observation car, to see how accurate it actually is.

The real car isn't too far away from where I live and is slowly rotting away next to a restaurant at the station for the Mount Rainier Railway. Sadly, nobody's running any trains there as they shut that operation down, but the restaurant and hotel using train cars is still there.

The Freedom Train observation car (#205) is one of the other cars used on the same train, or part of an ill-fated Dinner Train which hasn't run in years.

http://www.freedomtrain.org/am...rain-consist-205.htm

Since both MTH and Lionel's latest/recent catalogs contain additional AFT cars, I decided to update my chart so I don't end up purchasing duplicates. No guarantees on accuracy!

This is a listing by AFT car number:

AFT Car List              Car Number  Type                        K-Line                        Lionel   MTH
------------------------  ----------  -------------------------   ----------------------------  -------  --------
Tool Car                  PNWC76      6-axle, 80' baggage/dorm
Storage/laundry Car       20/33       NYC #9133 baggage
Flat Car                  30          F85C TTX flatcar
Flat Car                  31          F85C TTX flatcar
Flat Car                  32          F85C TTX flatcar
Baggage Car               33                                                                             20-64215
Storage Car "Boxcar"      33/34       SR #545 baggage                                                    20-64215
Showcase Car              40          NYC #9137 baggage           K-1122, K-4601A, K4601-30040
Showcase Car              41          NYC #9152 baggage           K-1122, K-4601A, K4601-30041
Entrance "Control" Car    100         NYC #9163 baggage                                         6-84226  20-64213
Display Car               101         NYC #9128 baggage           K-1122, K-4601A, K4601-30101  6-83111
Display Car               102         NYC #9158 baggage           K4601-30102                   6-83111
Display Car               103         NYC #9178 baggage           K4601-30103                   6-83111
Display Car               104         NYC #9115 baggage           K4601-30104                   6-83116
Display Car               105         NYC #9135 baggage           K4601-30105                   6-83116  30-68049
Display Car               106         NYC #9156 baggage           K4601-30106                   6-83589
Display Car               107         NYC #9138 baggage           K4601-30107                   6-83589
Display Car               108         NYC #9139 baggage           K4601-30108                   6-83592
Display Car               109         NYC #9165 baggage           K4601-30109                   6-83592
Display Car               110         NYC #9104 baggage           K-1122, K-4601A, K4601-30110  6-84226
Exit Car/Power Car        111         NYC 9100 series             K4601-30111                   6-83111  30-68048
Power/"Bunk" Car          200         NYC 9100 series
"Sleeping" Car            201         SP 85' 4-4-2 Pullman #9111  K-4601B                       6-83119  30-68047
Combo/"Pie Car"           202         Reading 72' CVM pas/bag     K-4601B                       2027340
Lounge/"Bar Car"          203         Reading 72' PBM coach          K-4601B                       2027340  30-68047
Hospitality/"Office Car"  204         Reading 72' PBM coach          K-4601B                       2027350
Observation/"Press Car"   205         Reading 72' PBM coach          K-1122, K-4601A, K4601-30205  2027350
Diner                     207                                                                            30-67482, 20-64214
Observation Car           208                                                                            20-64213
Coach                     210                                                                            20-64215
Coach # 1                 212                                                                            20-64213
Coach # 2                 214                                                                            20-64213
Sleeper                   220                                                                            20-64214
Vista Dome Car            ???                                                                            20-64216

And I created this one by manufacturer SKU:

K-Line AFT Numbering
--------------------
K-1122 - American Freedom Train Passenger Set (GS-4 loco & tender; #40, #41, #101, #110, #205)
K-4601A - American Freedom Train Passenger Car 5-PAC (#40, #41, #101, #110, #205)
K-4601B - American Freedom Train Crew Car 4-PAC (#201, #202, #203, #204)
K4601-30040 - AFT Showcase Car #40, 18"
K4601-30041 - AFT Showcase Car #41, 18"
K4601-30101 - AFT Showcase Car #101, 18"
K4601-30102 - AFT Display Car #102, 18" "Exploration and Expansion" 1796-1806 & 1806-1816
K4601-30103 - AFT Display Car #103, 18" "Growth of the Nation" 1816-1826 & 1826-1836
K4601-30104 - AFT Display Car #104, 18" "Origins" 1836-1846 & 1846-1856
K4601-30105 - AFT Display Car #105, 18" "Innovations" 1856-1866 & 1866-1876
K4601-30106 - AFT Display Car #106, 18" "Human Resources" 1876-1886 & 1886-1896
K4601-30107 - AFT Display Car #107, 18" "Sports" 1896-1906 & 1906-1916
K4601-30108 - AFT Display Car #108, 18" "Performing Arts" 1916-1926 & 1926-1936
K4601-30109 - AFT Display Car #109, 18" "Fine Arts" 1936-1946 & 1946-1956
K4601-30110 - AFT Display Car #110, 18" 1956-1966 & 1966-1976
K4601-30111 - Museum of America's Freedom Trains Display Car #111 1976-1986 & 1986-1996
K4601-30201 - AFT Pullman Sleeper #201, 18"
K4601-30202 - AFT Diner #202, 18"
K4601-30203 - AFT Lounge Car #203, 18"
K4601-30204 - AFT Parlor Car #204, 18"
K4601-30205 - AFT Observation Car #205, 18"

Lionel AFT Numbering
--------------------
6-83111 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 4-Pack (Exhibit Cars 101, 102, 103, Power Car 111 with generator sounds)
6-83116 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 2-Pack (Exhibit cars 104 & 105)
6-83119 - American Freedom Train 21" StationSounds Exhibit Car (Sleeper Car 201)
6-83589 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #1 (Exhibit Cars 106 & 107)
6-83592 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #2 (Exhibit Cars 108 & 109)
6-84226 - American Freedom Train Add-On 2-Pack #4 (Exhibit Cars 100 & 110)

2027340 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 1 (Diner Car # 202 and Lounge Car # 203)
2027350 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 2 (Parlor Car # 204 and Observation Car # 205)

MTH AFT Numbering
-----------------
20-64213 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Passenger Set (Smooth)  (4 Cars: 100 [Baggage Car]; 208 [Observation Car]; 212 [Coach # 1]; 214 [Coach # 2] )
20-64214 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Sleeper/Diner Passenger Set (Smooth)  (2 Cars: 207 [Diner]; 220 [Sleeper] )
20-64215 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Baggage/Coach Passenger Set (Smooth)  (2 Cars: 33 [Baggage] ;210 [Coach] )
20-64216 - American Freedom Train 70' ABS Full Length Vista Dome Passenger Car (Smooth)  (unnumbered AFT car)

I need to say again, the MTH cars are fantasy-never on the AFT.  As I mentioned earlier the baggage cars could pass for  the storage cars 33 and 34, but the rest of the MTH cars are from their generic passenger set.  They are not representative of the real AFT.

Paul, Great job on the list!

Ron, your insight as to what is fantasy and what isn't is greatly appreciated.  As for me, if I'm going to make up an ATF train, I want it to be authentic, having toured the real thing while I was working in Richmond in '76. 

I wonder if another ATF will run in 2026 for the 250th anniversary.

I thought the MTH AFT cars were suspect in not being true to the real ones.

Since I already have 13 of the Lionel AFT cars, I'm going to continue to purchase additional cars from Lionel. Not sure if it's true or not, but that way I know the diaphragms will match up. Side note - I noticed some of the Lionel cars don't have diaphragms on both ends. Seems a bit odd.

Regardless, here's the cars I have thus far:

6-83111 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 4-Pack (Exhibit Cars 101, 102, 103, Power Car 111 with generator sounds)
6-83116 - American Freedom Train 21" Passenger Car 2-Pack (Exhibit cars 104 & 105)
6-83119 - American Freedom Train 21" StationSounds Exhibit Car (Sleeper Car 201)
6-83589 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #1 (Exhibit Cars 106 & 107)
6-83592 - American Freedom Train 2-Pack #2 (Exhibit Cars 108 & 109)
6-84226 - American Freedom Train Add-On 2-Pack #4 (Exhibit Cars 100 & 110)

2027340 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 1 (Diner Car # 202 and Lounge Car # 203)
2027350 - American Freedom Train 18" Passenger Car 2-Pack 2 (Parlor Car # 204 and Observation Car # 205)

which will give me the following cars:

Entrance "Control" Car #100
Display Car #101
Display Car #102
Display Car #103
Display Car #104
Display Car #105
Display Car #106
Display Car #107
Display Car #108
Display Car #109
Display Car #110
Exit Car/Power Car #111
"Sleeping" Car #201
Combo/"Pie Car" #202
Lounge/"Bar Car" #203
Hospitality/"Office Car" #204
Observation/"Press Car" #205

I think I'm on my way to having a good AFT collection.

Yes, I also have the GS-4 AFT loco - even though it is the MTH version (30-1776 - American Freedom Train 4-8-4 GS-4 Northern Steam Engine. I even pulled out on of my AFT cars and connected it with the hopes the red and blue stripes would match. They did!

Paul,

You are definitely on the way to having a full train.  I have a mix of K-Line and Lionel (assuming I can sell one set of my display cars), and its a really nice looking set.  Hopefully soon Lionel will release the two showcase cars (I expect they will since these were critical to the AFT).  I'm not sure Lionel will ever make the tool car or the three flatcars, but it sure would be nice.

MTH also made a couple scale versions of the AFT GS-4.  The first one, 20-3077-1, comes up for sale once in a while for not that much money.  The same for the early AFT T1, 20-3131-1.  I also have early versions of MTH's GP-40 in MKT (20-2523-1) and WP (20-2420-1) bicentennial colors.  These prototypes of engines acted as helpers on the real AFT behind the steamers, and these models work well with the MTH GS-4 and T1.  These diesels really help pulling all those Lionel and K-kine cars.

Picture from an earlier post many years ago.

@CAPPilot posted:

Paul,

You are definitely on the way to having a full train.  I have a mix of K-Line and Lionel (assuming I can sell one set of my display cars), and its a really nice looking set.  Hopefully soon Lionel will release the two showcase cars (I expect they will since these were critical to the AFT).  I'm not sure Lionel will ever make the tool car or the three flatcars, but it sure would be nice.

MTH also made a couple scale versions of the AFT GS-4.  The first one, 20-3077-1, comes up for sale once in a while for not that much money.  The same for the early AFT T1, 20-3131-1.  I also have early version of MTH's GP-40 in MKT (20-2523-1) and WP (20-2420-1) bicentennial colors.  These engines acted as helpers on the real AFT behind the steamers, and work well with the MTH GS-4 and T1.  These diesels really help pulling all those Lionel and K-kine cars.

Picture from an earlier post many years ago.

Do the red and blue stripes on your K-Line and Lionel car match up? Also, do the diaphragms match?

I use this website as my guide to authenticity: http://www.freedomtrain.org/am...ain-consist-main.htm If you notice, there was actually 3 different AFTs. I'm trying to match up with the 1976-1977 version.

I picked the MTH GS-4 because it seemed very true to the original and was priced to fit my budget.

Not sure where you got three American Freedom Trains.    Are you talking about the three different steamers that pulled the AFT?  Those were the SP GS-4, Reading T1, and T&P I-1a.   Both Lionel and MTH made scale and traditional sized GS-4 engines and scale T1 engines in AFT livery.  K-Line's version of the GS-4 is a traditional sized model.  3rd Rail is the only one to make the I-1, plus their GS-4 is really nice.

Otherwise, the three trains the American Freedom Train Foundation talks about are:

1) 1947-1949 Freedom Train that was pulled by an ALCO PA1 and had seven cars; three display cars and 4 support cars. This train was basically a cheerleader to get our country going again after WWII.  Of note was this train carried original and very precious documents from our country's beginning and was guarded by a contingent of marines.  Lionel made a nice, mostly accurate, model of this train.

2) 1974 Preamble Express was a 4-car train pulled by a D&H U23B then a UP E-9A.  This train scouted out the route for the AFT.  This whole train, pulled by the E-9, was in Lionel's last catalog.

3) 1975-1976 American Freedom Train was a 26-car train pulled by the three steamers above.  As mentioned many times, this train celebrated our Bicentennial.  Most, but not all, artifacts in this train were copies.  K-Line made 17 of the cars (2 showcase, 10 display, 5 support) and hopefully Lionel will make a lot more.

@paulp575 posted:

Do the red and blue stripes on your K-Line and Lionel car match up? Also, do the diaphragms match?

Pretty close.  The car on top and to the right is the Lionel.  Mostly the starts on the Lionel are smaller.

The 3 AFTs I mentioned were the 3 you listed so we are in sync!

I've seen some AFT cars with gold emblems on them. Haven't seen anything that indicates they are  part of the 1975-1967 AFT.  Additional research shows they may have been part of the 1947-1949 AFT.

I'm aware the 1975-1967 AFT was pulled by a variety of locos.

@CAPPilot posted:

Pretty close.  The car on top and to the right is the Lionel.  Mostly the starts on the Lionel are smaller.

Good to know. I think I'll stick with only Lionel cars. Hopefully they will eventually produce all the cars - maybe including the trailers and their flatcars.

@paulp575 posted:The 3 AFTs I mentioned were the 3 you listed so we are in sync!

I've seen some AFT cars with gold emblems on them. Haven't seen anything that indicates they are  part of the 1975-1967 AFT.  Additional research shows they may have been part of the 1947-1949 AFT.

You are correct.  Except it was the 1947-1949 FT, not AFT.  The gold emblems were only on the Freedom Train. 

Interesting fact:  The FT's PA1 is the only known engine to have traveled to all 48 states (there were only 48 in 1947). 

A couple of notes regarding MTH production:

1) Set 20-64215 contains the baggage car with the silver doors and it is not numbered 33 as advertised but rather 101.  Big disappointment.   This car is my in queue for work to be transformed into car 20/33.

2) Earlier AFT set 20-6593 is a 5 car set with baggage numbered 200.  I am also working on transforming this car with screening vents and generators as the real 200.  Stumbled on this by accident when I bought the set for my grandson.  Imagine my surprise!

Rolland

@RLaHaie posted:

A couple of notes regarding MTH production:

1) Set 20-64215 contains the baggage car with the silver doors and it is not numbered 33 as advertised but rather 101.  Big disappointment.   This car is my in queue for work to be transformed into car 20/33.   I have the same car  Waiting to see what other cars Lionel produces before I do anything with it.  Probably will become 33.

2) Earlier AFT set 20-6593 is a 5 car set with baggage numbered 200.  I am also working on transforming this car with screening vents and generators as the real 200.  Stumbled on this by accident when I bought the set for my grandson.  Imagine my surprise!  I was thinking of changing it to 34.  I'm hoping since Lionel produced exit/power car #111 they will do #200.

Rolland