Wiring Schematic for Lionel #38053 L2a Mohawk...

Ditch lights?  Are you talking about ground lights?

You should start with ONLY pin 1 in the 10-pin CC-M connector, don't connect the other stuff.  Verify what those other pins are connected to as the CC-M doesn't have the same functions.  The CC-M outputs ONLY drive an LED, nothing more.

Connecting something to J4 and tripping breakers sounds like a recipe for disaster for the CC-M!

Hi John: I'm glad you chimed in here; Your second sentence SHOULD be in Scott's ERR Cruise "M" instructions. I DID remove pin 10 from the locomotive's J4 connector, but then plugged it in directly to the CC"M" board. Scott does supply the new J4 connector with only pin 1 inserted, but does not say "why" THAT connector should be used in place of the one already in the locomotive.

I did verify the other wires already in the locomotive and they were two ground wires + three wires going to the "flickering" firebox LED board. Pin 1 is soldered to the R2LC MB pin as directed for serial data. Two more wires were power for the locomotive's 2 LED marker lamps.

The short circuit was somewhat unusual in that noting got hot or smoked - it just popped the breaker. I'm not at home to work this, but tomorrow I'll just wire the serial data wire up and see what happens. When it did power up before with the J4 connector removed, I got locomotive "at rest" sounds + any keystroke on the Cab2 was met with a whistle from the tender.

I may have smoked this board, if so, time to eat crow. I've done almost a dozen CC installs with no issues. It just proves the CC"M" install instructions need more clarity in some areas and the purchasers should know  this is just not the "plug and play' install the advertisements seem to portray. One other area of concern I noted was the pin lengths on the bottom of the CC"M" board need to be trimmed before installing in the heat sink you remove-they would short on mine if left unattended to prior to installation.

I'll keep you posted on what I find out.....

D&H 65 posted:

Hi John: I'm glad you chimed in here; Your second sentence SHOULD be in Scott's ERR Cruise "M" instructions. I DID remove pin 10 from the locomotive's J4 connector, but then plugged it in directly to the CC"M" board. Scott does supply the new J4 connector with only pin 1 inserted, but does not say "why" THAT connector should be used in place of the one already in the locomotive.

I did verify the other wires already in the locomotive and they were two ground wires + three wires going to the "flickering" firebox LED board. Pin 1 is soldered to the R2LC MB pin as directed for serial data. Two more wires were power for the locomotive's 2 LED marker lamps.

The short circuit was somewhat unusual in that noting got hot or smoked - it just popped the breaker. I'm not at home to work this, but tomorrow I'll just wire the serial data wire up and see what happens. When it did power up before with the J4 connector removed, I got locomotive "at rest" sounds + any keystroke on the Cab2 was met with a whistle from the tender.

I may have smoked this board, if so, time to eat crow. I've done almost a dozen CC installs with no issues. It just proves the CC"M" install instructions need more clarity in some areas and the purchasers should know  this is just not the "plug and play' install the advertisements seem to portray. One other area of concern I noted was the pin lengths on the bottom of the CC"M" board need to be trimmed before installing in the heat sink you remove-they would short on mine if left unattended to prior to installation.

I'll keep you posted on what I find out.....

 

I have run into that many of times.I once got a video camera that had instructions.But only in chinese  which really made me angry.And yes instuctions can leave out a lot of things.

I'll be somewhat stunned if popping the breaker through that wire didn't take out the Cruise Commander.  I believe the instructions should ALWAYS say start with pin one to serial data and make SURE you know where any other pins go.  That's always been my mode of operation in installing these.

I am not sure what you have going on, but the big WARNING when replacing an ODY motor driver with Cruise M is that ODY has Chassis ground which is AC.  CCM is DC reference Ground.  Hence the warning in the instruction to cut the Chassis Ground wire in the ODY Swap on the 10 pin.  If the ground wire (pin8) you left in was going to a 5V Regulator on chassis ground, you blew the CCM board.

I don't know what is going on with Lionel's service manual website, but it seems like wiring diagrams that use to be accessible are no longer accessible.  Can't even pull up instructions for engines.

Frankly when adding CCM only pin 1 and 2 for serial in and serial out as buffered for some systems should be used.  IF your going to go back and add ditch lights in, you need to be sure you trace how they are wired.  Following the ERR Instructions for the Diesel mod for ODY and understand how it impact a steam upgrade.  G

Long ago I downloaded all the Lionel supplements so I'd have them locally.  However, I didn't find the wiring diagram for this particular unit.

George, what do you use pin 2 on the CC-M for?  I've never found a use for it, and when I did connect it to the RS Commander, I didn't get command control of the sounds.  I figured if it was buffered, that would be a solution instead of a transistor buffer, but it was no-go.  I can honestly say in 100+ installations, I've never used that serial output.

I've always meant to 'scope the two pins to see what actually comes out of that pin, and how it differs from the serial input.  It's just never risen to the top of the queue.

George & John: I just tried my loco with just the serial data wire on pin 1 of connector J4 and it was a no-go; no surprise there. Nothing like smoking a c-note to make your day....

Anyway, I have a question about the 5V regulator that came with the engine originally; my impression from your information George, is that there should be NO input from the 5V regulator board to the CC"M" board, however, my 5V regulator board had a yellow wire output going to the DCDR (and now) the CC"M" board's J1 connector pin 1. Why is that needed if the CC"M" instructions state that that pin should be "Power input, 5.6v supplied from the R2LC". I had that pin removed for my latest test this morning; do I still need that input? - seems counter-intuitive to me.....

I have another CC"M" board I can use to swap this one out, but until these issues are "plain and simple" as far as initial wiring, I'm holding off further adventures in electronics. Appreciate your inputs.

John, We had this discussion long ago.  I rarely see it either, but there are some installations that do use it.  I do not fully remember what Jon Z said about it, but probably some method of the ODY board feeding info to the sound system.

D&H For some installations I guess Lionel did not feel that the R2LC reg was up to snuff for the 5V loads and they supplied a separate regulator to power the DCDS.  I have seen engines with it.  It is ok for it to power the CCM, but not connect any of it to the 10 pin connector.  Basically it takes track power in and makes 5VDC.  Sometimes driving other lights too.  If they got DC ground from the original 10 pin for ODY, vice a chassis point, that may have caused issues with your CCM if left in the 10 pin.  G

J1 gets the four pin connection from the motherboard with the PWM signals and the 5V from the R2LC.  It's a plug-n-play affair, just move the connector to the CC-M from the DCDS.  You should not be doing ANYTHING but moving this connector to the new board.  Don't use their regulator, it's not needed. 

The CC-M will work with the J1 connector, the J3 connector, and pin 1 of the J4 connector.  I've never felt the need to connect a cruse enable switch, so I never connect anything to the programming connector.

The marker and ditch outputs on J4 are for a single LED, and as I stated previously, I've never used the J4 pin-2 output.

I think the reason that they used the regulator for the DCDS is they were also using the R2LC 5V for the IR tether transmitter.  Since the regulator on the R2LC is just a TO92 package, it's only good for around 30-35ma, and driving the opto-isolators on the DCDS and the IR drawbar must have been too much.

In the pictures, this was stock configuration. J7 on motherboard has pin 1 empty. I added a jumper from pin 1 on J7 to pin 1 J1 on Cruise M which aligns with the harness that is included with the kit. Pin 3 on J7 goes to the IR. Pin 3 on J1 which used to fee the DC board is not used. Pin 10 on J4 on cruise is unhooked and I removed it from J8 on the motherboard too. Mine would not function correctly if I just did a plug and play with the J1. When I used the supplied J1 it went to working properly. When I plugged pin 3 back in to the DC board it would stop running after a while. I unplugged the DC board and it’s been fine since.

After looking at it, it looks like the DC board is not doing anything in that configuration. 

I'd get a 4-pin to 4-pin connector from the motherboard to the CC-M, do the required splices to add the 4-pin black Molex connector for track power and motor drive, and run pin 1 of J4 to the serial data.  Get that working first before you look into adding any lighting, etc. driven by the CC-M.

Truthfully, I simply replace the 6-pin black Molex power connector with the correct 4-pin one, I hate splices where they don't have to be.

Gentlemen: The saga continues this morning on my Mohawk Cruise "M" install. I swapped in a new Cruise "M" board using the advice in this Post. I have seen no issues with shorts this time; I set Feature code "4" for steam with smoke. The engine Railsounds works normally and I can fire the tender coupler and reverse direction (as noted by the tender backing-light. I still have no motor response in either direction.

From reading the Cruise"M" instructions, it appears to me that I'm not getting the correct serial data needed to make this engine operate. I have attached a picture in the area of the Cruise"M" J1 connection to the Motherboard J7 connection; does this look correct? I should note that as the engine was built by Lionel, there was yellow 5VDC wire in the hole above the green wire in the picture the Cruise "M" J1 connector, pin #1.

Otherwise, the blue wire in Cruise"M" J4, pin 1 is soldered directly to the R2LC's pin 24

The green wire and black wire pictured just loop from one connection to the other. The wire in the upper J7 pin with red tracer goes to the IR tether.

Actually, with no serial data, the symptom is normally it takes off at full speed as soon as you crack the throttle.  Check the 4-pin connector from the motherboard to the CC-M.

I only see two wires in the PWM connector, so you have no 5V to activate the opto-isolators, that's your problem.  This connector should have four wires 1:1 from the motherboard to the CC-M, I think that will fix the problem.

You have no power to the input optos.

Put a jumper in pin 3 on J7 to pin 3 on J1. Mine did the same until I had the 5v from the motherboard to the cruise m.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, with no serial data, the symptom is normally it takes off at full speed as soon as you crack the throttle.  Check the 4-pin connector from the motherboard to the CC-M.

I only see two wires in the PWM connector, so you have no 5V to activate the opto-isolators, that's your problem.  This connector should have four wires 1:1 from the motherboard to the CC-M, I think that will fix the problem.

You have no power to the input optos.

The harness with the new cruise m comes with a 3 wire set up for J1. 1, 2, and 4. 

Yep, you need at least one of the 5V pins to go, they're common on the CC-M.

The ERR website describes a "buffer" device is needed for locomotives with wireless tether which the 6-38053 came with.  You can see in their photo all 4 pins on CC-M J1 are full. 

ERR Buffer

He doesn't need a buffer, he just needs 5V to the opto-isolators that drive the PWM inputs to the CC-M.  Without them, the CC-M will not get any motor control.

Curiosity got the best of me. I snatched the shell off mine for another issue and while I was in there I unhooked the 5v source from the motherboard and used the DC regulator. Wow! This thing is fast! The DC regular seems to be useless with this configuration. It sounds and looks like your set up electronic wise is very close. I went on and just removed the regulator from the engine.