3rd Rail CPR "Mikes"

Just heard from 3rdRail.

 

Despite all the painful international finance, I'm in for two Mikes! One streamlined and t'other with guts hanging out!

Nice pics. Thanks! Is the third pic the water-tube boiler experiment?

Well, we Canucks are a small lot. I'd be in for a T4-a. Maybe even two T1a's.

But, realistically, from a business POV, expect about a dozen more Big Boys or Class J's.

In the meantime, grab a CP Mike while you can!

So, the T-4a was not a great success. Neither was the PRR gas turbine but it's been offered by everyone and his dog over the years! The T-4a was an impressive beast of an engine and would make a great model! I'd love to see it offered. Just that the model needs to run more reliably, and last longer, than the prototype! 

 

In Canadian Pacfic Locomotives, by Omer Lavellee, it is stated on pp. 187-191 that CP8000 went in for refit after 50,410 miles of service in 1936. She never returned. Her years of service stretched from 1931 to 1936. She was cannbalized and finally scrapped in December 1940. It is also stated that some enginemen booked off rather than tangle with 8000's 1600 psi closed circuit design although no mention is made that any dangerous malfunction of the engine ever occurred.

Bowen was vociferous in defense of his behemoth, but the service record seems to speak for itself.

 

All CP enthusiasts should have Lavellee's book. Unfortunately, it seems rareish now and the cost is out of sight! Glad I got mine when it first came out! The historic pictures alone are great! One is attached here.

 

http://www.amazon.ca/Canadian-...ywords=omer+lavellee

 

It's too much to think 3rd Rail would make any money offering this. Too bad, as it would sure be eye-popping! Wonder what she sounded like? Whistle! Low and throaty I hope!

I heard the 1600 psi circuit was for the whistle. A magnificent monster to be sure, but if I was cab crew I'd be looking for a nice big doghouse at the back of the tender to run her from. I can see some apprehension knowing there was that kind of pressure around the firebox. Here's a link to a pic of the boiler innards: http://img.gawkerassets.com/im...adlmjpg/original.jpg

Anyway, back to to nice simple Mikes!

 

Wow! That's some firebox!

 

Always amazes me how a simple concept, like driving a piston by exhausting steam into a cylinder, developed into the complex beasts "modern" steamers became!

 

There is NOTHING "simple" about them!

#8000 was an experiment a rolling test bed if you will on improving fuel efficency. In that respect it was a success. Dynomometer test readings showed fuel savings of around 15% when working over the same subdivisions as a standard T1a.
The main issue with the engine was with the water pump seal technology of the time, not being reliable enough to feed water into the 750psig boiler system consistently. This is according the excellent reference book "Canadian Pacific's Mighty 8000" published by Donald Bain and Jack Leslie.
Henry B Bowen was very sensitive to any negative criticism of his locomotive and went to great lengths to defend it. Interestingly enough, there were some crews that looked forward to booking on to run the engine when ever an opportunity came up.
Most of the fears arose from the English locomotive FURY, that blew a closed circuit tube, killing
the Elesco feedwater rep during its initial testing.
   Certainly a fascinating read on steam locomotive technology.
A couple of more pics of the "beast"

Perhaps we are fortunate that #8000 was not a mechanical success - as it must be admitted, it was hardly an esthetic success! The more conventional locomotives of Canada were handsome, beautifully balanced designs. Which to choose - A CPR K1a 4-8-4 or this lumpy elephant??!!

Oh, Mark!!!!

 

"Lumpy elephant??"" OUCH!!!!

 

No! No! NO!!!!

 

I LOVE it!! It's POWER!!!

 

While I have these . . .

 

 

 

and look forward to both the semi-streamlined and the unstreamlined Mikados, I also would love a "Selkirk with guts," a T1a. And, indeed, an 8000!

Albert:

Interesting images! Unfortunately, another book with a price gone outt'a sight!

Totally different pilots on 8000?? Strange that would have been changed on such a short-lived loco? One for snow maybe? But why the other?

 

Scott simply has to offer BOTH!!!

Terry - Was really kinda kidding about the "lumpy elephant"!  You have a very nice CPR (notice the R, as I am a steam-era traditionalist) roster. We have been treated to a deluxe spread of choices by Sunset 3rd Rail. Additionally toss in the CNR/GTW 4-8-4's.  It's a shame that many stateside fans have not developed a full appreciation for Canadian steam locomotives. Each railroad was absolutely individualistic in it's approach and I would propose that both Canadian National and Canadian Pacific had some of the best looking locomotive rosters on the planet!  Also appreciated - the high state of maintenance accorded each road's motive power.

Snow plows were installed on all classes of Selkirks for the snow seasons in the mountains until late spring, from what I understand.
T1a's had their specific plow that had 2 support rods running up onto the smokebox front, whereas the T1b/c's had ones without supports.
   Interestingly enough some of the later classes had boiler tube pilots installed while in their final years of service on the Prairies instead of their solid pilots.
Would be nice to have both types of pilots provided with any T1a or T4a models produced in the future
Al

A marvelous collection of photographs of CPR P2 2-8-2's working hard and in repose, can be found in "Canadian Pacific to the East - The International of Maine Division", by Omer Lavallee. P2's handled the through freights, Montreal-St. John, and 25 P2's were assigned to the line.

Omer's bibles . . . er, I mean books, seem hard to get these days. What a pity!

 

The one Mark mentions seems in that category but I was able to order this one from a used bookseller at a reasonable price.

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/produc...=sr_1_12&sr=8-12

 

Ah, yes.  Omer's "Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives" (new copies) are selling for $486.79 at Amazon.  Someone should whisper in the ear of the publisher that it's time for a second printing!!!

       And, of course, if one has not purchased "Canadian Steam" by David P. Morgan, he will be escorted out of the room by burly guards!! 

Thanks for the tip. I've ordered it! As I stated in a previous post, I had the good sense (for a change!) to order Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives back when it was first published.

Terry - Jeez, I hope the book you referenced is a partial reprinting of "Canadian Pacific TO the East" by Omer. I see that the 2007 book I referenced is currently unavailable at Amazon. Your book is "Canadian Pacific IN the East". With any luck, it is the same, but I note, it says part 1.......which might indicate that it is only half the original. The book I referenced has wonderful Jim Shaugnessy and Phil Hastings photos of P2's double heading, working in -20 degees below zero, passing lads with hockey equipment, Brownville Jct., ME, reference to the brief period in 1954 when the K1a 4-8-4's pulled the Atlantic Limited, but only Montreal-Megantic, as the US ICC would not allow locomotives with nickle steel boilers to operate in the US.......etc. etc.

        I make it a habit to grab anything that catches my interest immediately, as stuff in our hobby comes and goes, often, never to return. Drat!

Ron's Books appears to have some copies:   http://www.ronsbooks.com/cgi-b...e_list_page&and=

 

I could not recommend a book more highly. Best $58.50 (USD) you would ever spend!

Thanks, Mark. We'll see what shows up on that amazon order.

But I've ordered a copy from Ron's too. Thanks for the link!

Getting far off thread here but, please tolerate this inquiry.

 

What was the US beef with these boilers? Were CDN safety standards lower than in the US at that time? What were boilers in the US made of that was better than nickle-steel?

Terry - I am afraid I don't know. What strikes me as odd on the ICC's part is the waiving away of the 26 years that these two locomotives worked w/o incident, and in a pretty demanding service. Can't imagine that the Canadians were doing anything particularly strange in terms of material selection. Perhaps someone might offer an explanation?    

Terry - after thinking a bit, I seem to recall that nickle steel boilers were subject to crystallization which would lead to cracks and steam leaks. Think I will pose the question on "Real Trains". 

    BTW, I rather like a bit of divergence in discussions and don't view it as "hijacking". Sure, if we are discussing P2 Mikados and someone asks "Do you really think the moon is made of blue cheese?" would be an unwanted intrusion. But the thought of going out to dinner with a couple, and stating at the onset, "We will only be discussing the Chicago White Sox 1959 season. If you bring up any other topic, I am flipping the table, all plates and food in your lap, and stomping out." Conversations provoke new thoughts! A bit of free-wheeling ideation can be fun!

Mark

 I'm curious too about the boiler issues on various US roads about new locomotives that would end up having replacement ones installed. Northern Pacific is one instance that comes to mind with their latter Northerns and Challengers having issues.

  I have not read really anything about boiler issues with Canadian locos(perhaps it was something never discussed officially)?

Al

 

Soooo....any updates anyone?
Al

Al:

 

Was hoping you were chiming in to say you'd received a shipping notice!

Nothing here.

 

Did receive Canadian Pacific To The East.

Great pics! Including CPR Mikes double heading! Thanks for putting me onto it, Mark.

 

 

According to the 3rd Rail home page, the CP Mike's are due to arrive today.

 

Crank

Just received a notification. Mikes should be shipping by end of week!

Mikados seem to be on the way . . . finally!

USPS tracking indicates mine have been "Processed Through Sort Facility" in San Franciso as of yesterday.

No US residents with pics of their Mikados yet?

 

Mine arrived in Canada today. Being held at customs in Vancouver for tax assessment.

An amigo  advised his came in - and it is a beautifully executed model! He also mentioned that the ratio of the $CDN vs. $US caused a number of cancellations of Canadian orders. Hope this does not dampen Scott's enthusiasm for Canadian prototypes.

They've arrived!

 

 

 

They're beautiful! They sound great! Love the whistle!

 

Lookin good! How do the they run together when double-heading?
Still waiting for mine to show up. Probably this Friday hopefully. Just picked up another Selkirk on the weekend, so I need to get busy on my roundhouse and get a nice photo of some of the roster
Al

I haven't tried doubleheading them. Not sure how to handle that with the scale coupler on the front?

 

Two Selkirks??? Nice!Looking forward to those pictures!

Yes I've been thinking about converting my locos over to Kadees...lol. I just can't imagine NOT double-heading(tripleiheading??wow). Not sure of the logistics with 072 minimum curves, if it is possible to have a decent looking and functional front coupler.
Al

I had done this connection to double head a (Weaver) Pennsy Mike and (Weaver) Consolidation. Both models were upgraded to EOB speed control at the time.  It worked on O54 curves, but just barely.  Some of the models came with a large dummy claw that replaced the scale couple.

 

One coupler is Lionel and the other is MTH.  I believe that PSC also offered these toy train couplers.  I could be wrong, and often.  Correction:  Bowser, Selley castings, bottom, page (4).

Best wishes with your new models.

Mike CT

I tried doubleheading the Mikes today with a dummy coupler similar to one in Mike's image. Mine was for MTH trains.

 

The coupler box on the unstreamlined version was not deep enough to accept the MTH dummy at all. However, it did fit (just barely!) the semi-streamlined version so I went ahead and programmed a train into the Legacy controller. Had trouble on the first O-72 curve. O-72 is not wide enough with that dummy coupler. Tried O-80. It went forward through that curve but started to derail on reverse. Seemed fine on O-104.

 

So, another solution is required

Well, I finally was able to pick up my Mikes from the post office today, after taking back all my empty beer cans for refund, so I could pay the $200 for taxes.
They are absolutely outstanding! Well done Scott! They are HEAVY and impressive. The finish is flawless with tons of detail.
I just unpacked them and placed them on the layout to get a family portrait with my other CPR steam(i will start another post on that lol).
If you've been sitting on the fence about buying one or one of each, I highly recommend that you do not wait to long to decide. You do not want to miss out! Only real thing missing are the instruction booklets for both locos. Couldn't find them in the boxes(not a big deal for me, but might be for others)
Al

I picked mine up last week (over $2K Canabucks after currency conversion and taxes - ouch). I found the instruction booklet folded inside a few pages of advertisements for upcoming 3rd rail products - outside the actual product box but inside the shipping box.