A "what-if" articulated, streamlined, kitbashed custom build

Can't help with your particulars but take a look at the Southern Pacific AC9. It is a semi streamlined articulated. Most beautiful articulated in my opinion. 

That is a powerful looking loco! Was unaware of that type, TY!
Although I admit, my goal is more S1 appearing...

Can't go wrong with a Raymond Loewy inspired Loco.  The AC9 was just to show that a streamlined articulated existed. Don't know if any others. 

I do know that the UP challengers and SP cab forwards are both articulateds that pulled passenger trains.

What the scale articulated engines do is have one motor and then use a gear box with pass through on the back set of drivers and then have a drive shaft with one or more universal joints going to a gearbox on the front set of drivers.  The pivot point is just behind the back set of wheels on the front set of drivers.

On smaller articulated engines (lion master/Railking, etc), if there are two motors, the boiler floats over both the front and rear drivers which pivot independently of the boiler.  The pivot points are usually the motors so that is how they have a motor on the front drivers.  The motor on front set of drivers is the front pivot point for the boiler and the motor on the back set of drivers is the back pivot point for the boiler.

For your model, you could make a clamp assembly that attaches to the motor that the boiler attaches to.  This can be done at the two points (front and back).

I appreciate the feedback Gents.
Strangely enough I didn't know, or had forgotten, that Cab Forwards and Challengers did passenger service.

Thanks for the input Ollie. I believe I understand your explanations. I am rather set on having the front drive chassis hinged in the rear pinned to the front of the rear chassis, with the boiler mounted solidly to the rear only, and a slip joint  more to prevent the front chassis from binding and destroying the hinge pin or white metal(?) chassis when the loco is picked up.

My thought was to actually directly wire the front motor to the rear motors wires.  I'd love some input from anyone familiar with this "smart" lionel drive system. Has bells, whistles, chuffing ect supposedly. I felt if the voltage output controlled the rpms of the motor, and amperage draw or resistance(? )wouldn't interfere with the digital controls, that would be the way to go. These engines are very heavy, so I can imagine the traction possible with two motors.

Perhaps having two motors would be too much engineering, and not enough design and detailing. If I can get both motors to work together with minimal work, awesome. If not, wouldn't a dummy front chassis work reliably? Especially if the weight of the entire engine, minus the front dummy was on the solidly mounted and powered rear chassis? Or would pushing the dummy cause issues? It's darn heavy in itself, so I don't see it derailing.

Sorry for all the questions guys, but I want to do this right, with minimal mistakes and wasted time or money, that anyone who loves streamlined steam would appreciate a fairly realistic, strong running, and totally possible if things went a lil different, end result.

Been hesitant to cut drill and tap for a hinge pin without lots of input and perhaps a few pics of how manufacturer's do it. Try finding a pic on the web of someone brave enough to take apart a $1,200+ articulated O scale loco. lol

I wish I had known because I had mine apart last weekend.  Here is a picture of the Lionel Challenger.  The driver on the left is the front driver, the one on the right is the rear driver.  There is a collared screw that goes through the slot on the front driver and then is screwed into the hole on the rear driver.  Here is a link to the page that I got this from.  The dummy front should be fine so long as it swivels without binding.

OLLIE!
TY Sir. I was trying pretty hard to find something just like that to study!! AWESOME!
Guess ya are pretty brave!

I am trying to google and search, not expecting to be spoon fed info. But like what you just shared there is little way i could have found that without knowing what I was trying to find. TY


I DID find this guy's work. I appreciate his efforts a great deal.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/p...o-scale-train-engine

Unless you love to build, it would be cheaper to buy a Rowi brass loco that can be found around the $400-500 mark. All of them were articulated.

Yes, buy an articulated with an acceptable wheel arrangement (as this is freelance) and go from there.

Not sure that you mentioned it, and not sure that it's important to you, but the PRR Duplexes you show were not articulated - maybe yours does not need to be, either.

Also touched on earlier, the ROW brass articulated were not built prototypically - the motor/drive units were pivoted at the top of the boiler (very much like a Post-War Marx plastic E-7 diesel...). This allows the rear engine to pivot, but that's not prototypical, but on big curves it's not bad.

The MTH RK articulatedsa are similar in philosophy, but are actually built like diesels in drag. There is a rigid frame with 2 pivoting motor trucks that are dressed like the 2 steam engines of an articulated.

I like your desire to build and/or freelance locos - I do it myself (see photo below). But maybe you need to start with a less ambitious project then work your way up to your proposal. (All this is the voice of an experienced 'basher, BTW.)

MTH RK "USRA 2-8-8-2" that I bashed - fun, it works, but the nice thing is that it is mechanically "stock" (not the tender); I only did the fun stuff. 

The tender was already pretty much 1:48 (I re-trucked it); the loco I changed a lot, adding larger, scale details (cab "stretching", dome, pilot, enlarged cylinders, FWH, new trailing truck) to make it appear to be a scale(ish) model of a smaller loco, rather than a sub-scale model of a larger one. It also has ERR Cruise Commander and RS (4-chuffs, pretty much).

You might want to take on something like this first - fun, fairly "easy", gratifying, pretty good-looking (if I say so myself), mechanically untouched, before you really get to the down-and-dirty design. 

You remind me of a member that has since moved on....but built a lot of 'what if' items. Good luck!! 

Wow All,
I gotta tell ya, I appreciate the warm welcome.
A lot of purists no matter the venue or "scene" get angry and hateful toward what I do. So "Congratulations" to all of ya, for the kind words and helpful input!

I want to put <$300 into this total. I have WAY too many expensive projects requiring my time and funfunds!! Cutting apart a nearly new $200 purchase is more than plenty for a design study static display project. I do realize the Lionel parts will always have a "toy" quality to them.  And, another thought no matter what I do, most would probably scoff at it. Even if I bought a brass big boy chassis, what I do with the boiler, no matter how beautiful, detailed, painted, or possible, I am probably just tossing money for fun. I'll leave the $400+ models to the more hardcore folk, for the moment, unless I earn a big dollar commission.

I appreciate ya being nice mentioning the rigid s and t 1 frames. S1 being one of the largest, and housed not too far from me in Crestline Ohio. The S1, too large for the turntable, on the left middle. I may be new here, not a "hobbyist", but have been studying steam since 1975.

That MTH freelance is pretty nice!! Nice work! Very good looking model!

The size of the project doesn't scare me at all. Don't really see it as that complicated actually compared to an entire engine overhaul, one off drivetrain, structural, accessory, and electrical engineering and jeep restoration haha I have a drill press, am KILLER precise with my flexshaft dremel, have taps, dies, ect...But ty guys for the advice encouraging me not to bury myself and get frustrated with a 1/3rd finished project. Ya might encourage me to go G,  7.5 gauge or something lol

Fairly sure I have everything mapped out in my head, but before any machining, I wanted to hear experienced input from articulated operators in the know. Otherwise my chassis would be already together.

I have both gutted bare to frame, motor, drive wheels and side rods, and the forward motor removed for now. No sweat. I can put everything back from memory, and it's been a few days already.

Hey texas,

That's a duplex Q1. Not an articulated. The streamlining on it didn't last long either. 

A thought on the tender. The LNER ran two on the Flying Scotsman I guess because they didn't have track water pans. The tender I believe had passageways so crew could be changed. A second tender would add to the massiveness without causing curve problems.

Texas, yeah the 4 rear drivers would indicate rigid frame. Just thought it was reletively on topic, and if you were unaware, to point it out. My Bad?  haha

Scotie, that's a great suggestion, but I decided to bash the three tender shells I have, and make 8 wheeled trucks from 2 of the 4 wheeled with a custom link chassis. I will be welding the two tender frames together.  I am also speaking with several fam n friends electronic degreed folk on the motor wiring, to see if both can be used. The final shape of the boiler OD will dictate how much chassis swing I could get.  As the model is primarily for display and design study, curve radius negotiation is very much secondary. It may or may not be a true to scale radius curve negotiation. A few things to balance out.

If I decide I can pull it all off, I would challenge anyone here to a "for pinks tug of war" pull off. HAHA


But it is so amazing to see the two sets of drive wheels together @ final driver wheelbase(realistic space between front rear drives and rear clys). This is a project I have dreamed of for decades!!

I am not happy with the idea of a 2-8-8-4 for passenger service. Am I recalling correctly, from decades ago knowledge buried somewhere in my scattered noodle, the school of design for pass. locos, the more pilot/trailing wheels, the smoother the operation?

I have been poking on ebay and other sites for possibilities, but the 3 axle truck frames don't appear heavy enough for realistic, massive loco pilots/trailing trucks. I am diligently researching, but if a lifelong guru has any advice or knows of a truck model frame that is beefy and appropriate could steer my "train of thought" a lil bit? There is an overwhelming amount of models to sift through...WHEW. And most of it is antique lionel toys. I love em for what they are, and this won't be a museum piece(ya knever know!), but most seem too chunky and unrealistic for my goals. But again, a modest budget, but realistic appearing build I won't spend $100 a truck on.

My '58 Fireflite needs new whitewalls, DieselJeep needs some things, house needs things, ect.

Thanks all once again for all for kindly sharing your expertise and kind opinions!!
Your time and efforts to help are NOT being taken for granted, or being wasted!!

Oh. Gunna be PROUDLY Union Pacific. Yellow primary, red/white/blue accents, with shield on SST wrap around wings, with SST trim, maybe skirting, aka Lowery "Hiawatha".

Gunna be GORGEOUS and scream " Dignified, powerful, SPEED!!".

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe 6 wheel leading or trailing trucks were used for any reason besides war restrictions on materials which forced their use. I believe that 4 wheel trucks where the preference. 

I would think for high speed passenger 4 wheel leading trucks would be required. I believe the trailing trucks have more to do with supporting the firebox than speed or ride. I could be wrong there though.

That is an excellent historical note. I would love for more to offer input on that. Although the idea of the massiveness of 3 axles appeals quite a bit. Good point to weigh out for some scientific accuracy, but not historical accuracy that I am striving for.

The S1 was built in the 30's, yes?

My "alternate timeline" theory is a loco built directly post WWII, as 50's styling started happening. Perhaps a discovery of oil burning steam design in boiler or firebox that permitted steam to be viable for another decade than historical facts.

Turbine gurus, oil burners feel free to weigh in to direct my research, if you can be bothered to find time with a lowly, modest budget, historically inaccurate, freelance, oh wise, bottomless budget gurus! haha

Although I won't be putting fins or a cockpit styled cab on her like Aerotrain!! HAHA

It would be great if this site ever decided to split the forum into different categories, so "what are you buying" and "what are you building" aren't burying each other, competing for the same eyes looking for different subjects.