Can liquid smoke be used safely in PW 675?

Why not just convert it to the liquid type smoke unit? It's about $10 and very easy to do.

You can do the above and many do, but there really is no need to change anything. I have found that in my 1947 675 engine that it will work with no problems with smoke fluid. Just add one or two drops of fluid at a time until it stops smoking. As long as you just add the one or two drops you are fine.

 

By the way I first learned about using liquid smoke fluid from Bernie of All Aboard Train Shoppe in NJ. He was the one that said years ago that it is ok to use smoke fluid in pill type units as long as you use very little fluid at a time. I use original pills sometimes (just for fun) and liquid smoke fluid most of the time.

Smoke fluid can be used in any old heater type smoke unit. There are reports that the locomotive smokes better with liquid smoke than with pellets, and that using the old heater unit also produces more smoke than the conversion unit.

 

There is no harm done to the smoke element or locomotive in using smoke fluid.

 

Larry

Yes it will work, but not the proper way to do it. If you are going to the effort of fixing it up, adding lights or LEDS and such, why not spend the $10 to do it right? The batting absorbs the fluid so that it evaporates, not boil itself into smoke. Fill it with fluid, then it derails, and dumps the fluid all over. No thanks, I'll spend $10 and take 5 minutes to do the work.

My 675 is perfectly happy with smoke liquid.

 

Doug, I like the idea of converting it to a liquid type smoke unit but have no idea of what parts are needed or how to do it.  Is there a thread or YouTube video you have handy.  If not, do you have any part numbers.  I've never used smoke fluid before so I'm at the beginning of the learning curve.  Taking the engine apart isn't a concern.

 

Again, I like the idea of the conversion; just don't know how or what to use.

 

Thanks. 

There is good reason NOT to convert the smoke unit to liquid type, that being that from then on you HAVE to keep fluid in it or the unit will burn out. With the old heater unit it does not matter whether there is a pill or fluid in it at all. The old heater will take smoke fluid just fine and smokes even better if you overhaul it and add the pac man batting that some dealers sell now. All of mine have been using smoke fluids for many years and no problems.

Rob

I've used Megasteam Smoke fluid in my old 736 Berkshire and it works fine. Three drops and you have smoke for a short time. For longer lasting smoke do the conversion as recommended.

I go with the No Need to Change Anything. group. Your engine will be just fine using fluid the way it is. Don't overfill 3 drops is enough. If you ever watched a pill in the smoke stack you will notice it turned to liquid when hot.

I am also in the NO Need to Change group.  I have used liquid in engines with old pill smoke units and with replacement liquid smoke units and I prefer the old pill smoke units because they produce more smoke.  If you do go ahead and use a liquid smoke replacement heater, don't use the fiberglass tube that covers the heater(it really slows down the smoke production, just use the heater and the fiberglass batting in the bottom.  Three drops and they will produce smoke for about 10 minutes.  If you overfill with liquid, place the engine upside down on a paper towel and leave it overnight.

Carl there is a conversion kit, sells for about $7 or $8. Its a simple job. Yes you have to keep fluid in it because there is no on/off switch. Ive seen them on EBay but anyone who sells PW parts probably carries them.

 

It's the same idea as the TMCC smoke units. No need to use the sleeve, and you can use the white replacement batting in it like all other smoke units. I put it in my 682 Turbine when I restored it. I had to buy parts to rebuild the original smoke unit anyway, so I just upgraded it for a couple bucks more. Works great.

 

Install instructions at the bottom for downloading.

Although it is very easy to "upgrade" to a liquid smoke element, unless it would burn out, I am with the just use liquid crowd! Anywhere form 4 to 8 drops, and you should be just fine.....

Certainly you can use smoke fluid if you wish.

 

I will point out that smoke pellets that work and smell just like the original Lionel ones are available.

Now it's a downgrade huh? That's funny. Not everyone wants to use pellets.

The 726RR in the video is not using pellets.

 

And has not been downgraded.

I use liquid in all my postwar steamers ( Mega Steam Smoke Pellet scent)  & they work great.  All of them except one have the original pellet type units 

I use smoke fluid in all of my Lionel pellet type smoke units including but not necessarily limited to 675, 2025, 726, 736, 773, 2055, 2065, 671, 681.  Early on I did convert some from pill to liquid smoke generators but quickly found out I preferred the original pellet type units because I can use both pellets and liquid along with the added benefit of keeping everything original. 

I concur with OkHiker.  I run my pill smoke units on my 2025's with liquid all the time and they have never been converted.  I usually only add 4-8 drops of fluid.  You have to just be careful not to flood it with like 8 drops or more.

 

Sometimes I run with smoke pellets when friends come over who love post war trains and want to that old smoke pellet smell.  Its great to have a choice which is why I didn't do the conversion since I can safely run both.

 

One thing I did do was put a micro switch in the loco accessible in the cab to turn off the smoke unit completely if I don't want any smoke at all.

Years ago, my goodness I cannot remember how old I was. My grandfather took me to my first train show. It was right after WWII. I was all excited as I waited in line to see the new smoking Lionel trains running for all to see. I remember asking the elderly gentleman standing next to us, "Sir, Are you here to see all of the new smoking locomotives?" His reply has stayed with me all these years. He replied, "Sonny, Real Locomotives Have A Reason To Smoke....Toy Trains Do Not". He patted on my shoulder, turned and walked away. I immediately turned to my grandfather and asked to see the rest of the show instead. After that I was content with my prewar trains because they had no reason to smoke. Just my memories....

If you have any of the small plastic containers that comes with the engines, snip off the flat end and you have a nice little funnel.

I converted one and it went up in smoke/flames when the plastic cap contacted the resistor. It smoked like crazy for a few seconds, but smelled pretty bad.

 

The pill type smoke units work just fine with liquid and they also do not clog up with liquid like they could with pellets. And there is no work involved, just put the smoke fluid in.

But why do something unnecessary I would say do it if the unit is burnt out also the newer liquid one are meant to be set up with a on/off switch as if run for periods with out fluid they may burnout due to no fluid. 

 

Like mentioned above don't flood it with liquid 2-4 drops max at a time

Several folks have mentioned on-off switches for modern smoke units.
I understand that more recent smoke units have switches. As far as I know, the early Modern era smoke units, the ones that used the conversion kit shown above with a 8141-55 heater, did not have switches. (Not that a switch isn't a good idea)

I still have a bunch of those conversion kits. I picked them up when there weren't any smoke pellets on the market. I think I used one or two pieces to repair some MPC steam engines.

By all means, stick with your old school ways. As I stated, my smoke unit was fried anyway, so I upgraded it for a few bucks more. No on/off switch, nothing burnt up, and I don't have to put 3 drops in at a time. Yes I performed an "upgrade"... 2015 locomotives don't use pellets, so I upgraded a 1950's engine.

That is a little bit of misinformation too. I use 12-15-18 drops easily in the 726RR steamer in my video above. I don't really count, I fill the dropper and give it a squirt.

Here is my 2025 smoke pellet locomotive running on Megasteam fluid with no liquid conversion.

THANK YOU all for the replies based on your personal experiences with liquid smoke in PW engines; special thanks for the videos to Rob (and for his part nos.) and Paul; and, to LOS who posted photo, p/n's and directions.

 

At the moment, I have plenty of projects, so I'll defer the decision to convert or not.  I did buy the Crest rollers and would like to take a break from the projects to put the 675 on them and do a comparison of the pellet and liquid smoke products I have on hand.  I have a pipette on to count the drops.

Couldn't look sweeter and that's what its all about!  No muss and no fuss.

Yuppers, it sure will.

 

If you clean out the bowl and add some batting it will smoke even better.

The wire is wound close enough it will wick it to the top of the board.

I am with Rob, I don't know where the 3 drops thing came from, I use 7 or more drops in unmodified smoke units. My 736 will smoke for an hour or more with that.

All in good fun, Real locomotives also have a reason to exist.  Toy ones don't.  I'll be happy to take all yours off your hands since you won't be needing their existence.  

 

As for the number of drops,I usually put 8-12 drops in my 2055 with no issues.  

If it has been a really long time since I ran my 2025s, then 12 is the maximum I put in.  Otherwise 4 to 8 seems about right for my smoke unit.  I also put a post war "pad" in the bowl to help hold the liquid.

 

Don't put in the conversion kit, as their is no reason. Even Lionel's site said you can add 2-3 drops to the old heater units. A little over a year ago, my 675 went to school as a train for the kids to run under the Christmas Tree. I didn't want to have pills in school (just didn't want to open up that can of worms), so I used fluid, and it worked very well!