Lionel X31 3RS Repaints

They look perfect to me Norm.

Ron H

Excellent work Norm.  

Good job Norm.  That tootsie roll brown really had to go!  

For others who want to do what Norm did, you can get new decals from Protocraft:

http://www.protocraft.com/cate...Sub_Sub_Category=PRR

Norm,  Is the weathering done with powders, acrylics, washes, or all of the above ?    The results are outstanding !!

Looks good Norm and the weathering covered up your mistakes...lol

Where is the Bessemer car?

Thx guys. The weathering is an acrylic wash over flat clear, followed up by airbrushing Grimy Black and some RR Tie Brown on the trucks. Also puffed a little Rust on the couplers.

Dave, not sure I want to show it. It's a little overdone I think so I may play with it a little more tonight.

John, thanks for pointing out the Protocraft decals (and your painting advice)..

Nice job. I like the faded/dusty look.

Thanks man. I had a real hard time laying color down using solvent based paint. I tried Scalecoat 2 then Tru Color but couldn't get a good smooth finish. Stripped these cars like 3 times before I happened upon the MM acrylic in a color that I thought was close. I think it blends in well compared to Atlas cars.

I have been watching your YouTube channel on my Xbox lately, good stuff!

That finish looks just like your Atlas cars, blends right in.

I've found there are three key factors when spraying TC and SC II because I was having the same problem getting a smooth finish.

1. They need thinned more than normal, and with TC I had to use thier thinner to keep it from drying so fast.

2. Higher air pressure than I normally use. 26-30 psi vs the 15-20 I would normally use.

3. Distance of the airbrush to the surface needs to be a lot closer than I normally do, especially with the SC II. Close and slow spray pattern gives the glossy finish, otherwise it's orange peel and dull.

I did a lot of reading online about both of those paints after Floquil left the scene because that's all I ever used. I couldn't figure out why SC II and TC were so different to spray. I still don't know why it is the way it is, but it seems to have worked as far as getting a smooth glossy finish.

I think my big mistake was trying to cut both paints with lacquer thinner. I think the paint was drying just as or before it hit the surface. I played with different pressures (never got above 25PSI) and distances but couldn't get a smooth finish. I still have some left and will eventually buy the thinners for each to try again.

The MM acrylic went on and covered in one coat like the old Polly Scale used to. I then did two light coats of MM gloss clear acrylic just on the sides to help set the decals. (Not sure that was completely necessary but everyone who seems to be good at setting decals always say they do them on gloss finishes.) I then did the whole car with two light coats of MM flat clear. 

I really wish all the Polly colors transferred over to MM. There were some nice selections of red oxides that are now lost forever I fear. That N6 peeking out behind the Centipedes was painted with a 50:50 mix of Special Oxide Red and Zinc Chromate primer.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Thanks man. I had a real hard time laying color down using solvent based paint. I tried Scalecoat 2 then Tru Color but couldn't get a good smooth finish. Stripped these cars like 3 times before I happened upon the MM acrylic in a color that I thought was close. I think it blends in well compared to Atlas cars.

I have been watching your YouTube channel on my Xbox lately, good stuff!

Look great Norm, inspires us to repaint our Pennsy Chocolate Brown cars! Did you try the TC thinner?

Laidoffsick posted:

I've found there are three key factors when spraying TC and SC II because I was having the same problem getting a smooth finish.

1. They need thinned more than normal, and with TC I had to use thier thinner to keep it from drying so fast.

2. Higher air pressure than I normally use. 26-30 psi vs the 15-20 I would normally use.

3. Distance of the airbrush to the surface needs to be a lot closer than I normally do, especially with the SC II. Close and slow spray pattern gives the glossy finish, otherwise it's orange peel and dull.

I did a lot of reading online about both of those paints after Floquil left the scene because that's all I ever used. I couldn't figure out why SC II and TC were so different to spray. I still don't know why it is the way it is, but it seems to have worked as far as getting a smooth glossy finish.

What airbrush have you used? Think dual or single makes any difference?

Interesting they didn't just fold the Polly RR colors right into MM rather than drop things overnight.

I did not try Scalecoat's nor Tru Color's thinners. Next time I am in P&D I will pick some up. 

I am using a Paasche VL, quite the upgrade from the ol' Testors Aztek (served me well over the years though - just not as easy to clean as an all metal airbrush). The VL (Aztek too) is dual action. I have a single action Harbor Freight cheap-o that I used in the past but that would not have helped here.

I have been picking up MM colors in their other lines whenever I come across them. Not sure what line the Burnt Sienna is part of but I will stick with it I think. 

I used regular ole Paint Thinner from Lowes/Home Depot for SCII. Laquer thinner turned it into little pebbles of paint in the jar. However regular ole Laquer thinner is a little different in CA because of all the EPA crap. It disappeared for awhile and then cam back re-forumulated for CA. Same with the Paint Thinner but it works great , just had to thin it down 60/40....60 thinner.

With TC the trick is their thinner. It is expensive but it is the key when trying to spray that stuff. Night and day difference. 

I have several different airbrushes, all dual action with diferent size tips/needles. .3 and .5 worked the best for me. .1 and .2 just don't flow enough paint with those 2 paints...seems to clog a lot easier because of the gloss factory. It gets sticky quickly.

Gents:

Joe Fugate at "Model Railroad Hobbyist" has an acrylic guide for free download on working with acrylic paints.  I've been following his recommendations with great results.  He also has formulations in there for replacements for the old PollyScale line. 

Here is the link:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist...ly/painting/acrylics

I bought the book in addition to keeping the electronic copy on my computer, it sits by the air brush equipment for ready reference.  He also has some good tips if you are are doing a lot of air brushing. 

He is also developing a guide for the solvent based stuff too. 

Regards,

Jerry

Norm, man am I glad you posted this thread!  First of all, your Pennsy cars turned out great...nice job!

I've been working on a 5-car custom-painting/decorating project that has taken way longer than it should have mainly due to the frustrations (and lack of success!) I was experiencing airbrushing with Tru-Color paints.

By no means am I taking pleasure in your experiences, just kind of glad to hear that I'm not the only person that had issues using TC...LOL!

I, too, was getting an uneven (anywhere from flat to gloss) finish, that was "rough" and very spotty.  It looked awful, so I stripped and repainted the cars a couple times.  

I finally gave up on TC and then started searching all the hobby stores around me until I finally found a couple (new old stock) bottles of Floquil in the color I needed.  Of course it laid down a nice finish the very first time!

Like Doug (Laidoffsick) stated above, I have since done a lot of reading up on the TC paints and how to successfully apply them.  I sure hope the tips and tricks work as I purchased (prematurely) a lot of different colors thinking it would be easy to use!

On my second go-around I primed the cars with Tamiya primer. Highly recommended. It even survived another stripping job (using 90% isopropyl alcohol after reading one of Doug's threads). Did I mention Lionel even molded the bodies and everything in rich chocolate brown? I'd buy more of these cars from them in the future if they paint them something like their GLa hoppers, even though they stunk to convert to Kadees.

Joe, I enjoy your work, thanks for the kind words. I'd like to see how you make out with Tru Color efforts. I would like to try again after getting their thinner and finding something else to paint.

Thanks for the input everyone!

Norm, going to paint some brand new, bare gray plastic Atlas boxcars with TC paint. You still recommend the Tamiya primer as a base coat?

Sure, it's a bit spendy, but the one can did both of my cars. 

Great job, as always!!

Preweathering, the color looks a lot like the shade of Tuscan on my postwar Gilbert AF PRR gondolas. 

Bob

   I was in the back of a NAPA parts store one time getting a new hydraulic hose made up a log truck I had a few years back. While there, a fellow was making cans of spray paint for a local body shop. He had cans that had no top portion crimped on yet. He would drop a ball bearing in the can, then add different colors to come out with an end result. Very much like the technique they use in a hardware store when mixing latex paint. When done he put the can in a device that crimped the top portion on. Next, he pressurized the can, added a spray tip, then put the can in a shaker. After he had 12 in a case, he painted the tops of the caps and sent them on their way. I was amazed at how fast he created a case. His color chart book had every possible color you could think of and sections for each car manufacturer. The paint was lacquer based and the tips came in 2 or 3 sizes for paint containing metal flake. I've used their spray paint a few times, on my vehicles, and the tips spray much finer then your normal can of spray paint. I wouldn't mind giving their paint a try next time I need to paint a train. 

Bob, thanks! Yep, looks like AF got it right years ago. Even Lionel got a nice color tone on some of the postwar N5cs and N5s. Maybe next time they reissue these they'll get the color right and put some Kadee mounts in.

I picked up a SP double door for cheap money this week:

I will Micro Sol it a couple more times and then clear it before I weather it up. I *think* I got the car number right on this one. 

It be done...

I oversprayed the decals with a bit of the car color after clearing it with flat clear. I then gave it an acrylic wash followed by some airbrushing with Grimy Black and some RR Tie Brown with a touch of rust on the couplers. 

New guy to forums but not to trains... 

Nice job on the boxcars!

Having applied a few gallons of model rr paints I learned something about thinners and with todays  new paint formulations it is even more important to use the manufactures specifed  thinner or a good copy of same . Chemicals in one thinner will react poorly with another makers paint.

Laquer thinner is extremely fast drying and will cause orange peel or dry gritty surface,enamel reducer is a slower drying thinner and less likely to attack paint or plastic than laquer.Neither should be used for thinning water based or acrylics,turns paint lumpy,ect. The internet is full of recipies for lower cost home brew thinners that are fully compatable with todays water based paints. Military modeling websites are good sources for info.

To achieve the level of excellence you all are striving for with your decaling projects ALWAYS decal over a glossy surface,it is very difficult to get decals to be free of silvering,no matter what setting solution is used when the painted surface is matte or flat.

Weathering and custom paint that is outstanding will elevate your 3rs modeling to the level of 2r and that is what youre all after!!

Dave

Well if it makes any sense I would have just shot acrylic if I had the right color to begin with. With the demise of Polly Scale a lot of nice oxide shades were lost. I'm glad I happened upon a satisfactory color. 

Also, I'm not sure why I would cut acrylics with anything but distilled water, which is what I have been using for a long time now.

This last car was molded in light gray and I shot two quick coats of acrylic after stripping and washing it.

I also screwed up and laid the decals over semi gloss MM clear but the decals came out pretty well I think. I thought I bought gloss but I'm not worried now, everything worked out.

I doubt I'll ever shoot anything but acrylic after this, it is so much easier and faster.