UP ALCO C855 DIESELS

IT's Massive in O scale. too bad no one has made it in O guage... or there was a prototypical demonstrator paint scheme for it. IT was a shame that the real one wasn't saved either.

I believe Overland did these years ago. If you have to ask how much they are; then you can't afford them. They were very expensive. I believe they did 10 sets at best.

 

Tom Mapes

Never heard of the thing, had to look it up. Unless they were the most avid UP fan, I can't fathom why anyone would have interest in this engine. They/it were/was unsuccessful commercially and are about a  minus 3 on the 1-10 styling scale (my opinion), and that was their good points.

 

Simon

 

The reference I saw said there was only one in a caption for an image and in text said 3 units were scrapped (thus my bold text).......make up your mind!

 

Throw a couple of these behind your 8500 hp turbines and get ready to pull a LOT of rolling stock.

If Overland only did 10 sets its unlikely you'll see them on someones layout, there probably in the hands of collectors.     stephen    (cTr...Choose the Right)

For what it's worth, those Alco 855 units (A-B-A) where VERY unreliable and only made one aborted westbound trip out of Council Bluffs, Iowa, back in 1964. They never made it to Fremont, Nebraska, because upon making forward transition just west of Summit, all three units had their side high voltage electric cabinets explode into flames. Some local fire department had to put out the flames, and all three units where towed dead back to Omaha Shops. The Union Pacific NEVER let the units operate in a consist together again!

 

Even the Alco Field Service people couldn't keep them running.

They never made it to Fremont, Nebraska, because upon making forward transition just west of Summit, all three units had their side high voltage electric cabinets explode into flames

 

Didn't that have something to do with using aluminum wiring instead of copper as a weight and $$$ saving choice by ALCO? I know one of the big UP loco had this problem due to aluminum wiring about this time frame.

 

Butch

UP148 is right.  These models are not worth the money, as they come with alot of problems.  If you like big diesels, the PSC/KTM DDA40X  is a good model.  It is well made and runs well.  I have one and I would take it over the more detailed Overland model.  It is not as expensive either.  I also have a Loco Workshop DDA40X and it was nicely done but not as well constructed as the PSC/KTM model.  You can get Lionel's DD35 and convert it to 2-rail, changing the drive units and motors.

If MTH would make these I would be all over them. Nothing like big UP power.

I have 2 MTH DDA40xs, 1 PSC/KTM and 1 Loco Workshop DDA40X for a total of 4.  I have seen the real beast when it ran in the 1970's on the U.P. mainline.  I have a MTH U50C and I'm trying to convert an MTH Veranda turbine into a U50B.  I need to build the shell from scratch.  I do not like the Lionel DD35s for they are underpowered for the kinds of locos they are.  They have the same drive units as their E7s, only 2 axles on each truck are powered.  They look nice , but for the money, they are not worth it-opinion !

Here's my veranda turbine effort, weaver drive, MTH body, scratch frame and tender, a work in progress. I have to say I do have an early 8500hp turbine from Overland, and the complaint of parts falling of seems to be the same with this model, but I haven't experienced it with my own model.     Stephen     (cTr...Choose the Right)

Nice job!  If you can get or make another drive and frame like this, and scratch build from brass or styrene the Alco C-855, you are in business.  I have the MTH 2-rail Big Blow and it runs fine.  I wouldn't dare shell out $2000 for the Overland one and have to rebuild it!  I am contemplating building a GE U-50B from styrene using the MTH Veranda drive and frames.  They are almost identical.

Stephen,

 

The turbine looks very nice! Overland made different runs of the turbines and some were better than others. Butch (UP148) knows a great deal about them (as to which was good and which not so). I think there was even a thread on them either here or on one of the other forums.

 

Simon

Robert   Thanks for the compliment, I wont be attempting the C855 as I have way to many projects on the go,need to finish the veranda turbine for starters!! I do love big UP power thou!! and the Alco is unique even if unsuccessful in real life. The U50B would be another interesting project, you might be lucky and MTH will beat you to it.    Stephen   (cTr...Choose the Right)

Simon    I know they had there problems especially the drive, mine has shed its original drive and is running on surer feet now!!  If I remember rightly its not the gears so much, but the bearings and universals that fail.     Stephen    (cTr...Choose the Right)

All of the Standard, Veranda and Propane Turbines imported by OMI were in the early to mid 1980's and all have the same tank drive. Double motors and dual transfer gearboxes with the lower portion hidden in the fuel tank (ie: tank drive). The early 8500HP was a decent looking model but the axle gearboxes are different than those used on the 4500HP Turbines mentioned above which actually looked like traction motors. The early 8500HP Turbine had cast zamac or pot metal gearboxes which created some problems too. The early 8500HP also used the tank drive so OMI added a fuel tank on the "B" unit to hide the drive which makes it wrong and easy to identify.

 

The best detailed and constructed "O" scale OMI Turbine by far is the 8500HP imported in 1993 and it is a work of art! Magnificent detail! Working lights, factory painted, detailed cab interior, derail chains on the tender trucks, tower drive; but only the "A" unit was powered so it was weak on pulling power. The "B" unit had opening doors with a scale model of the turbine prime mover inside. It truly was an O scale model of the best OMI HO Turbines of this period which were very, very nice.

 

I had one that Doug Cockerham repowered the "A" unit and powered the "B" unit and still retained the turbine prime mover and it was outstanding. Ran as good as it looked.  

 

With all the complaints and caveats about these Turbines and other early OMI diesels you have to realize this was during the period the Korean craftsmen were learning their brass modeling skills. Virtually everything that OMI imported during this period was ground breaking and many have never been done again. Even with the inherent problems these models were all outstanding in their own right.

 

Steam locomotives had been built and imported for decades before the likes of OMI started importing diesels. Except for a few MG and USH diesels you had to buy kits and build your own. I'm so happy that Tom Marsh (OMI) was a Union Pacific nut or none of these UP models and many others would have come to light.

 

He was as prolific in bringing brass models to the hobby in the 80 and 90's as Scott Mann is today. We owe a lot to them and many others who preceded them.  

 

Butch

Thanks for the info-up148.  OMI issued a DDA40X I think in the late 90s or early 2000s for around $2700 , if I remember correctly. I have seen pictures of it and it looks great, alot of detail.  Does it run as good as it looks?

I've never owned one of these locos but from the timeframe you mentioned I think it's safe to say it will run as good as it looks. OMI imported a U-50 during this same period and it too will be a nice runner...much nicer than it's older brother imported in the mid 80's.

 

Butch

I wish I had the money to buy some of these beasties.  I would buy the OMI C-855s-the entire set (ABA) and have them repowered and painted, and I would get a U50B.  I would also buy the new Key AC-12 Cab forward for $7500 and the complete California Zephyr passenger train from I think Key (each car runs around $1400 apiece).  I am now retired and unfortunately don't have the money for these dreams.  I am getting the Sunset 2-rail Jawn Henry and hopefully the S.P. AC-9 and that will be it for buying brass.

While I appreciate the sentiment that Butch expressed, the best way to approach the early OMI diesels is to assume they will fall apart if operated or handled, and purchase them with that firmly in mind.  They make very nice display models if you leave them on the shelf.

 

Opinion.

I was fortunate to grab up a few of these monsters of the UP in the 60's and 70's. My first contact with a PSC KMT model DD40 at the Pasadena train show and fell in love with the unit. However there to  was OMI and they said they were going to produce one too and so I waited and waited and waited. It seems more than a decade before they produced their model and it came out at $2700. Yah, NO! I met Jerry Snow of accurail and he turned me on to 2 of the PSC painted for 1200each. I also purchased 2 OMI U50Cs for about 6 to 700 apiece. One I had painted and the other was already painted. So for the price of one OMI DD40s I got 2 PSCs. Thanks Jerry, Well it was fate that my timing was right.

I do think I recall all these double motor engines were sort of a contest as UP was looking for such an engine and so all three companies put forward  their best effort. I do love the GEs best. BUt the giant DDs are a very close 2nd. I have never put current to them so don't know how well they perform.  

I remember taking a photo on a trip to Neb. of a triple lash up of the U50C. Spectacular!Golly was I thrilled to see them and  I was really foaming. I am thinking that brass models are possibly pricing themselves out of the market place. Then at $2700 was hugh and now it would seem to be priced at 4K if realeased again and very few would buy. Yet then there are a bunch of rich people out there who could pay that easily and I the price for me is more than 2 years of my O budget.

Its hard to go past the rugged power that the UP both needed and employed, the transition from steam, and the UP's searching for big power in a changing world of motive power, fires the imagination. The drama of this big power fortunately doesn't need to be expensive, companies like MTH do provide an alternative to Brass. It is hard to go past the fidelity of brass however!! The truth is, plastic or brass there are challenges, but the models are there. The Alco C855 however is brass or nothing at this stage.      Stephen     (cTr...Choose the Right)

Did you guys see a pair are for sale on O Scale Yard Sale

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/...ARDSALE/message/3510

Just some pics    Stephen    (cTr...choose the right)

Honestly these are the best finished set I have seen. They are really cool in a BIG way.. 

 

By the way these are up for adoption to a good home.

 

 

Erik, they look nice, nice. Better in O than the HO Beautiful  paint

 

Phil

Erik    The brass finnish is nice, but the painted one's you've shown us are magic, very nice!!    Stephen    (cTr...Choose the Right)

Thanks Stephen- I think Tom Marsh was a real gift to the o scale hobby. Seriously who on earth would ever produce this in plastic!?




On that thought you should add them to your stable!

Erik I was really surprised when MTH produced the DD40 and the U50 in plastic as they only ran + or - 50 each in real life. So when they run ofut of project to do , one never knows.  

 

Do these have the black gear boxes ?And do they run ?

I had a set of these 7 yrs ago . parts were coming off and they had the pot metal gray gear boxes .

Please advise , I am interested , did these ever belong to Jim Deats in Colorado ?

 

Bernie

Big engines!  How many do you run at a time?

LWS!   I remember Jan offering these have never seen one actually assembled and in use.  Any chance you could put up a few pictures of yours?  What's the drive in it look like as well?

 

Thanks!

I have never taken it apart, but it is not quite as detailed as the PSC, but the model is nicely done considering it is a Loco Workshop kit.  The trucks are missing the breakshoes and the body detail is not as distinct as the PSC.  Having seen the real beasts in service in the summer of 1978, I have a passion for this engine.  The only loco workshop DD-40AX I have seen was at Caboose hobbies in Denver in 1983.  Another member of a Lynbrook, N.Y. club I was in during the 80s had one in kit form. I'm not sure if you can still find any.  I think somebody is interested in selling a painted PSC one on the other 2-rail forum.  They are probably worth around $1500 painted and they do come up on ebay.  The MTH DDs are readily available in 3-rail. I'm not sure if you can get one in 2-rail.  These are not bad looking and you can fix them up in the pilot area if you like.  These are not my biggest locomotives, for I have an MTH Great Northern W-2 electric and a 2-rail Sunset Jawn Henry.

Thank you.  Unsurprising to be lacking detail comparatively, but if it was assembled "nicely done", some talented person was busy, 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting background there. When I worked at UP Omaha circa 1980 the CMO spoke at an event and mentioned something about, when our friends at Alco built the double-engine units they dropped the engines on a frame and plumbed everything around them. Implying, I think, that they were very badly engineered and practically impossible to work on to do any major modifications or repairs, and had a short life. An experiment that failed in a big way.

I have a couple of these to re-power with our gearhead motors & 1:1 drives.  I'll try to take some photos of my progress.

 

Jay

I would love to see these in 3 rail by MTH.  But good luck getting any manufacturer making a big B unit like the DD35B.