Lionel 6-18043 Hudson "yellow belly" smoke unit has no wicking and removing Pullmor motor stumps me

The two phillips head screws that the capacitor ground lugs are held fast with hold the brush plate on.

Ed, be careful'  looks like you have opened a big can of worms'.. Perhaps thought should be given regarding the 'Yellow Belly visiting a Lionel Technician...... What do you think'....... Wish I could help you', But this is way above my pay grade'.....

The 1 single hex bolt holds the motor to the chassis.  It may take some wiggling and twisting to pull it off thought it fits on there very snugly.

Yes, you need to remove that burnt sleeve covering the smoke unit resistor + put some wicking material in the bowl to hold the fluid near the resistor. Be sure there is a clear path for airflow from the "puffer exit port" to cross over the resistor and then up the stack.  Also be sure the resistor is in contact with the wicking material, but not wrapped all the way around it.

As others have said, the two silver Phillips head screws hold the brush plate to the magnet field. The hex head bolt does hold the motor to the chassis.

Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

Ed, be careful'  looks like you have opened a big can of worms'.. Perhaps thought should be given regarding the 'Yellow Belly visiting a Lionel Technician...... What do you think'....... Wish I could help you', But this is way above my pay grade'.....

Ted, thanks for the chuckle. That was my thought as soon as i popped the top. But, either i’ll be lucky, or if i don’t and it no longer runs after i fix it, I’ll be good paying a pro to fix my fix. That’s my DIY. I do it myself then pay some one to fix it. I do learn, tho! :-)

Thanks for the help.  

I usually charge extra if it comes to me in pieces.

Take a look at my post I explained how I did my smoke unit  JUST like yours   ... Just can't explain what type of fluid I use     (please don't ask)..

Forest posted:

I usually charge extra if it comes to me in pieces.

Well, that seems unfair, after all you don’t have to take time disassembling.  (:-D. You should offer a credit. 

For what it is worth, here are the exploded diagrams:

Locomotive:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...8043-001Complete.pdf

Tender:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...8043-T01Complete.pdf

 @ttender Has the complete smoke unit listed: www.ttender.com/list/610.htm

Before you get too far, you are going to have to unsolder some wires. Especially the field wire on the brushplate lug after you remove the motor. The motor looks clean, so I don't think it needs to me messed with. Just some oil on the rear bearing.                     The smoke unit could stand some improvement. Wrap one turn of smoke wicking around the sleeveless resistor and pack the rest in the fluid chamber to wick up the smoke fluid, careful not to block the air ports. I would also increase the diameter of the hole in the cover with a slightly larger drill bit, that will also help get more smoke out, the small port is too restrictive.

I find them fun to take apart, but if you're not familiar with these locos, work slowly and carefully or you may create problems for yourself.  Take self-reference photos as you go.  The motor is probably fine.  Did you put a short level on the rails where the loco slows down?  What happens if you run the loco in the other direction around that loop?

1.  You have a "baffle" type smoke unit.  Jim Barrett did a fine article on how to make these smoke many years ago... no wicking required.  Yes, remove the sleeve.  Then bend the element off to the side, and drill a 1/4" hole through the baffle at about the mid-point of the element.  Bend the element back in place.  This will allow proper air-flow across the element.  I followed these instructions on my 1989 B6sb, and it fairly belches smoke now!

2.  You don't need to remove your motor to get at the brushes.  Just unscrew the brushplate.

Jon

ToledoEd posted:

Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

Ed, be careful'  looks like you have opened a big can of worms'.. Perhaps thought should be given regarding the 'Yellow Belly visiting a Lionel Technician...... What do you think'....... Wish I could help you', But this is way above my pay grade'.....

Ted, thanks for the chuckle. That was my thought as soon as i popped the top. But, either i’ll be lucky, or if i don’t and it no longer runs after i fix it, I’ll be good paying a pro to fix my fix. That’s my DIY. I do it myself then pay some one to fix it. I do learn, tho! :-)

IF Timco still does them, replace it with a can motor and add ERR control?

usually when someone takes something apart and does not know what there doing ,something gets screwed up or lost  parts or damage to the unit. most repair shops wont repair  it ounce someone  has taken it apart depends on the  tech because it takes the tech twice as long to repair and due to   parts reinstalled wrong or damage n create other issues! 

All that needs to be done is remove the two Philips head screws on the top of the brush-plate.  I've been doing this since I was 12.  The smoke unit surgery only requires a sharp drill bit and a steady hand.

Jon  

Gents, I opened her up, and with some good advice, I pulled off the motor housing (thanks Jon) and cleaned the brush plate and brushes (Thanks Gunrunner) all made a bit easier with the exploded parts diagram (thanks BMORAN4). I also removed the sleeve on the smoke unit resistor and put Lionel wicking in the bowl.  Then I decided to replace the headlight with an LED from EvanDesigns. The kind that can take straight voltage from the track...it has a resistor in a lead (?).  I was feeling good. Put it back on the track, connected the tender and powered up...the tender immediately went into conventional mode. No light in the headlight.  I opened it up again on the test bed, checked everything. Meter indicated the engine was getting track power, and the LED would flash briefly at power up and sometimes at power down.  For reasons I do not know, the operation of the engine is tied to that headlight circuit, because as soon as I replaced the original incandescent bulb, she woke up, took commands. I then added the LED in the circuit with the incandescent bulb, both lit and the train ran fine.  I'm not sure how to get that LED to function properly without the incandescent bulb attached.  I'd prefer to keep the LED headlight, but, I'm clueless as to what to do. HELP!

Incandescent bulb hanging in foreground, LED in Light Bracket.  The EvansDesigns bulb I'm using is 5mm Cool White, 7-19V AC/DC.

Here she is running and smoking.  

Are you sure you didn't inadvertently tweak the antenna wire when the LED was installed? The headlight itself shouldn't cause the symptoms you described. It sounds more like a grounded/ disconnected antenna.

Look carefully at the handrails where they go into the body shell at the back of the cab. They are exposed connectors with the wires for the antenna signal. I believe them to be two brown wires. Separate the two from the wire nut and slide heat shrink tubing down the wires to the bare naked crimp connector. This crimp is known to come into contact with the top of the motor and cause havoc with the TMCC signal....or worse, kill the radio board altogether....which will really be bad, cause that engine does not have modular boards. Hope that helps.....Pat

Pat, thanks. I will do that before i button her up.
I didn’t notice any issues with the antenna. On the test bed the only antenna wire is the single one, firmly attached to the motherboard.   

I did check to ensure everything was connected.  The bulb is the key so far. 

The LED does not draw enough current to keep the headlight circuit on. You need a load resistor, about 1K, connected in parallel with the LED. This is what was happening when both the bulb and LED were connected.

Thanks, David. 

If your interested in modifying your smoke unit, Look at my first post on page 1.  Mine was enimic like your was at the beginning. Enlarging the hole and dropping the element size to 18 ohms got me more smoke volume.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-6-18011-mods?page=1

David, I did as you suggested and it works perfectly. Thanks for the advice.  

Congrats Ed', on repairing your engine'... on your own'... When I saw all those wires, I was nervous'  ... But you pulled it off'  GOOD JOB'...

Gents, thanks for your help. It's back together, brushes and brush plate cleaned, wheels dremeled, LED headlight, and running, better than before.  It does not stall, the smoke unit now puffs very well.  It still slows down, but does not stop.  All in all, a satisfying task.  Now, off to run trains.

I’m glad you got it up and running better than it was....keep in mind, it’s probably as good as it’s going to get...some of us really bring those early to mid 90’s Pullmors up to today’s standards....just as good (if not better) than the stuff out today...these locomotives, the YB (yours) the CV Hudson, the 763, the Mohawks, and the T1’s...I’m sure I’m forgetting some.....respond very well to upgrades....it all starts with taking the Neanderthal power plant out and switching to a modern can motor...that will all depend on how much in love with the locomotive you are....add the tinkering factor, and your off!.........Pat

Pat your upgrades are amazing!  In that last photo, you show the rarest of all rare beasts... a can-motored loco WITHOUT rubber tires.  I've wanted something like that for a long time.  And you even used a 19V motor to compensate for the tall gear ratio!  Now to really make my day, I would like to see a video of a Mohawk or T1 with some prototypical wheel-slip at startup!!

Ted S posted:

Pat your upgrades are amazing!  In that last photo, you show the rarest of all rare beasts... a can-motored loco WITHOUT rubber tires.  I've wanted something like that for a long time.  And you even used a 19V motor to compensate for the tall gear ratio!  Now to really make my day, I would like to see a video of a Mohawk or T1 with some prototypical wheel-slip at startup!!

Let’s hope Ed doesn’t object to hijacking his thread.....this is ex-Pulmor now Pittman powered 6-18064 Mohawk...ERR cruise M and synchro smoke....I need to make it 4 chuffs per rev, it’s on my list....but here’s your stall at start up.....☺️....... Pat 

Pat, no problem. I am in awe of folks like yourself. Opportunity to learn is always welcome!  My engine seems easy to work on so i just may upgrade as has been suggested. Thanks 

Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

Congrats Ed', on repairing your engine'... on your own'... When I saw all those wires, I was nervous'  ... But you pulled it off'  GOOD JOB'...

Thanks, Ted. The guys in this forum are so very helpful, it makes doing things like this easier knowing help is a post away!

ToledoEd posted:

Pat, no problem. I am in awe of folks like yourself. Opportunity to learn is always welcome!  My engine seems easy to work on so i just may upgrade as has been suggested. Thanks 

They respond very well to upgrades Ed, that Hudson shares the same chassis as many of the pullmor Hudsons.......literally a bulletproof platform.....and once upgraded, perform just as admirably as anything put out today.....Pat

Should have started a new post on the re-motoring pullmor engines . A lot of got information can be had here.

Forest

Forest posted:

Should have started a new post on the re-motoring pullmor engines . A lot of got information can be had here.

Forest

They’re already is.....you can use the search engine, put in Pittman and a lot of info will come up......Pat

Thinking of doing this motor mod to my 18045 Commodore Vanderbilt, as long as I can keep the original sounds! Anyone willing to do the upgrade for me on this forum?? I will pay generously :-)

harmonyards posted:

Forest posted:

Should have started a new post on the re-motoring pullmor engines . A lot of got information can be had here.

Forest

They’re already is.....you can use the search engine, put in Pittman and a lot of info will come up......Pat

I will look into that, Thank you,

Forest