Williams 4-8-4 conversion with cruise commander and super chuffer

Need to be a little more clear on exactly what’s happening, so when you wake it up, you have forward?..correct?....then you hit the direction button, and nothing?...correct?...what happens when you hit the direction button after what should be reverse?...does it go forward again?......

Pat

Ok, apply power to track, address engine, turn knob and engine moves forward - have complete speed control. hit DIR button, engine stops, turn knob and engine moves forward - have complete speed control. Unplugged command base, engine runs in coventional - but only in one direction. Hitting the direction button on the transformer will pause the engine and it will continue going forward - direction does not cycle.

Sounds like the R4LC isn't sending the reverse PWM to the Cruise Commander or the FET's on the Cruise Commander reverse path are dead.

The clue may be in your description of conventional running.  If in conventional it runs forward, then neutral on a power interrupt, and again forward on the next power interrupt, that sounds like the R4LC isn't working properly, the actual cruise board can't force that malfunction on it's own.  If the cruise board were broken, you'd have to interrupt power multiple times to get back to forward.

Try swapping an R2LC or another ERR R4LC-08 into it and see if that gets it's mind right.

I tried a different R4LC board, same thing. In conventional it never really stops when the dir button is pressed, when you release the button it will continue going forward, it never goes into neutral. Sounds like I got a bad CC board, this is my 5th install, first bad board I have received.

Could be, that sounds more like the drivers are shorted and just powering it in forward.  I presume you did look it over closely to see if there were any clues to a malfunction?

Note that if a motor lead is grounded, that could also lead to similar behavior.

@Darrell posted:

I tried a different R4LC board, same thing. In conventional it never really stops when the dir button is pressed, when you release the button it will continue going forward. Sounds like I got a bad CC board, this is my 5th install, first bad board I have received.

I had a similar with a Cruise M. One direction pin had a bad solder joint. On a Cruise M the direction connections are made with a harness connecting the radio board via its motherboard to the Cruise M. On the Cruise Commander the main board is also the motherboard. Pins 16 and 18 are the direction signals. Look closely at the mainboard under those pins for a bad solder connection. Maybe even hit them with a soldering iron along with any other mounting pads they go to.

Pete

Pete, I had the same issue several years back.  One of the resistors had one end that had no solder on it at all, when I had it under the 'scope, it was obvious that one wasn't connected.  Hit it with a drop of solder, and all was well.

Looked everything over with my lighted magnifier, did not see anything wrong. I sent an email to Scott at 3rdrail, will see what he thinks.

I pulled off the heat sink and I think I found the culprit!

@Darrell posted:

I pulled off the heat sink and I think I found the culprit!

Everything attached to the green thingy?.....what awe we looking at?..😁😁😁

Pat

R9 by the com terminal should look like R7 and R8 above it, R9 appears to be missing about half of it. Sorry for the fuzzy picture, my phone isn't very good with closeups.

Here's a little bit better shot

I am not sure anything is missing. It appears the resistor had moved off the pads just before it was soldered in place. If you have sharp point soldering tip you might be able to move it back onto those pads.

Pete

C1 and R9 look to be transposed, assuming that the component designations on the board are correct.

@Oman posted:

C1 and R9 look to be transposed, assuming that the component designations on the board are correct.

No, I don't think so.  C1 looks to be a ceramic cap, and I think you're looking at the bottom of R9.  Pete is correct, it looks like it flipped up in the oven and is sitting sideways on the pads.  I'd have to see it closer to know if that's an issue, but it's likely it's still making contact.  Kind of disappointing they didn't pick that up in the inspection after the pass through the oven.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No, I don't think so.  C1 looks to be a ceramic cap, and I think you're looking at the bottom of R9.

Okay, I see now. Designations are somewhat shifted due to size.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No, I don't think so.  C1 looks to be a ceramic cap, and I think you're looking at the bottom of R9.  Pete is correct, it looks like it flipped up in the oven and is sitting sideways on the pads.  I'd have to see it closer to know if that's an issue, but it's likely it's still making contact.  Kind of disappointing they didn't pick that up in the inspection after the pass through the oven.

I agree.  Should still have continuity.

We call it "Billboarding" when they stand on end like that during reflow.  Automated Optical Inspection (AOI) should have picked that up...  You may want to knock off that solder ball on the plated through hole up by R8.  It'll may fall off eventually and make an unwanted electrical connection somewhere else on the board.

Thanks,

Mario

Seems like the board may be bad. When I have issues with ERR products I contact Scott at 3rd rail. I describe to him the issue completely and state how I connected it properly and took all the needed measures. He will likely be up to sending you a new board and then have you ship him back the old one. Simple fix and will likely be a better solution to the problem. Though if there seems to be a fix, be my guest and fix it yourself . It is always fun to fix stuff and tinker with items.

I have been in contact with Scott - great guy! We will get this resolved one way or another, He has already offered to replace the board if we can't find the cause. Some people would just say tough, you hooked it up and broke it. Feeling good this is going to work out!

@Darrell posted:

I have been in contact with Scott - great guy! We will get this resolved one way or another, He has already offered to replace the board if we can't find the cause. Some people would just say tough, you hooked it up and broke it. Feeling good this is going to work out!

That is why ERR is such a good business. They stand behind their product and if it has an issue that wasn't caused by user error they replace it.

Received my replacement CC, started to wire up the super chuffer after verifying operation.

Here is the results! I modified the k-line/lionel smoke unit a little :-)

Nice upgrade. I've had several Williams/WBB engines upgraded with ERR and have been pleased. Looking forward to trying the next one myself.