3 Rail Scale Forum

@Bob posted:

Early on, it was made abundantly clear that 3RS started with Kadee couplers.  No Kadee, no 3RS, regardless of other details about the modeling.  That did it for me, no posting to the 3RS forum.

Yes, it STARTED with Kadee couplers, but included fixed pilots on diesels, proper ride height on freight cars, and proper scale size rolling stock (including 21" passenger equipment). Also, don't forget weathered track/rails, and equipment & structures.

This might also be a good time for everyone/anyone to read carefully the sticky placed at the top of the 3RS Forum.

Maybe OGR should leave the errant posts in the 3RS. At least it’s activity wrong forum or not.

Seriously though the 3RS guys are the only one that can change this lack of activity.

At this point it might be easier to rename it the MTH Spam Folder.

For those that are still utterly mystified by 3RS, it was simply the logical direction one could take as the 3 rail market was being blessed with an abundant array of reasonably affordable scale models in the early 2000s. With some minor effort, a lot of these models could be brought closer to true scale looks and performance with some rather easy modifications. It must have made some type of impact if you consider that a lot of the better 3 rail products now have options for scale couplers and fixed pilots right out of the box.

Well, first off things have definitely improved for me here.  I used to be called a lot worse than “The OP”.    Even though it has been, around 20 years (gasp) since I was a regular disturber of the peace, my name is still Pete, er mud.  I can still cause a stir, and it is grand to see I can pull out some of the old timers.  I do graciously accept blame, for not being a supporting member, no longer being a frequent contributor and finally not a trend setter anymore but a trend spotter.  Train spotter.  I think Norm (who’s work I always love to see) may have said it best.  All from the distant past that put in the time may have had an influence.   I used to spend months making scale pilot mounts, fixing pilots to frames, lowering engines, hammering manufactures etc.  Now manufactures have many of these scale features on 3 Rail engines.  At the minimum I recall many folks insisting absolutely that Lionel will never put Kadee mounts on their cars and engines.  Life imitates fake art, and 3 Rail scale work is still going on, but not much on the forum.  It seems that many an old (maybe I should use the word “experienced”) contributor is still having fun detailing their fleet, but we just don’t talk about it as much.  Anyway, I posted an observation that was relayed to me by my recommendation.  I did go 3 or 4 pages deep before writing, and never wrote vendors should not advertise on the forum.  A criticism without suggestion is just a complaint.  So I thought maybe posting these commercials on a more popular forum or limiting them to a few per page may help the content flow.  But I am thoroughly delighted at causing a ruckus.    Some things never change.  

Back to being a 3RS guy but a poor documenter of my fun.

Again, I certainly have no issue with sponsors making announcements; it's just a puzzle (to me) that so many opt to use the "3R Scale" forum to do so, when so much of what they offer can be used by other groups as well.

Let's just say Atlas (or whoever) releases a new freight car. It's designed to operate on small radius "train set" curves, with "lobster-claw" couplers and large flanged, uninsulated wheels. But it's also got great details, so it's a prime candidate be converted to either 3R Scale or 2 Rail. (In fact, don't a lot of the newer cars feature "built-in" conversion features? I know K-Line did that with their nice die-cast hoppers...)

Better than even money says the announcement for this car will appear in the 3R Scale forum, and here's why I say this:

I just looked at the first (20) topics in the "Traditional", "3R Scale" and "2 Rail" forums, just to see who started them. Of those 20:

5 in the "Traditional" were from vendors; the balance (15) were started by members.

All of the first 20 posts in the "2 Rail" group were started by members; zero "ads".

18 of the 20 in the "3R Scale" category were started by vendor/sponsors.

Nothing wrong with it; simply curious...

Mark in Oregon

I would suggest if you want to see more posts in this forum you might want to be a more flexible with regards to builds that don’t use Kadees. Those of us that take two rail engines and convert them to three rail or super detail a three rail engine don’t really have a specific forum to post on. Not really toy trains nor 3RS by definition of this forum but surely more scale than the majority of factory three rail engines. Think about it.

Pete

I kind of follow all the rules of 3RS. It’s what I enjoy doing.  Kadee’s , weathering, fixed pilots and extra details. I read every post on there and do to try to contribute at times with projects. My own opinion. I just like to read anything that has to do with modifying an out of the box product. It could involve painting, decaling or even motor swaps. I know there’s a lot of joy in opening the box of a new Loco or what’s in the next catalog. I read all of that to. The posts I read the most are from those that like to tinker and modify.

@Strummer posted:

I just looked at the first (20) topics in the "Traditional", "3R Scale" and "2 Rail" forums, just to see who started them. Of those 20:

5 in the "Traditional" were from vendors; the balance (15) were started by members.

All of the first 20 posts in the "2 Rail" group were started by members; zero "ads".

18 of the 20 in the "3R Scale" category were started by vendor/sponsors.

Nothing wrong with it; simply curious...

Mark in Oregon

It simply speaks to the low volume of posts in 3RS, the ads are cross-posted in the other forums, but there are a lot more threads started in those forums, so the ads are spread out.

@Norton posted:

I would suggest if you want to see more posts in this forum you might want to be a more flexible with regards to builds that don’t use Kadees. Those of us that take two rail engines and convert them to three rail or super detail a three rail engine don’t really have a specific forum to post on. Not really toy trains nor 3RS by definition of this forum but surely more scale than the majority of factory three rail engines. Think about it.

Pete

I agree with this.

I think the 3RS forum is trying to draw a non-obvious distinction between whatever 3RS is and is not.

The manufacturers have organized around scale proportioned items and non-scale proportioned items. Roughly, Premier for "Scale" and RailKing for "non-scale" (except for "RailKing Scale") for MTH. Legacy  (Scale) LionMaster/LionChief (non-scale) for Lionel. Atlas has Master/Trainman (and also Premier now) and had the Industrial Rail series but the later seems to have been shelved.

I think if we could discuss Premier, Legacy, Master, and Trainman products as well as GarGraves, Ross, Atlas, and MTH  ScaleTrax track products in the 3RS forum, it  would foster the sub-forum more. Obviously these would be generic discussions, not ones centered on control systems or a specific product itself - there are other sub-forums for that.

I'll also add, I don't know  of a single vendor that makes a product that fits into the 3RS sub-forum. And limiting it to "kit-bashing" seems wrong too.

Pete, Good to see you posting again!

This is easy. If you see 2 rails it's 2 rail, If you see 3 rails it's 3 rail. Whether it's to scale or not is decided by measurement. Calling something scale whether or not it has a Kadee coupler is ridiculous. Putting a Kadee coupler on a car doesn't change it's dimensions. Want to be accurate, why don't we go proto 48 3 rail. This stuff will never be perfect! Get over it. Do what suits yourself. Have fun.

ECI

@EastCoastIron posted:

This is easy. If you see 2 rails it's 2 rail, If you see 3 rails it's 3 rail. Whether it's to scale or not is decided by measurement.

Too bad we don't make the rules.

@rplst8 posted:

I agree with this.

I think the 3RS forum is trying to draw a non-obvious distinction between whatever 3RS is and is not.

The manufacturers have organized around scale proportioned items and non-scale proportioned items. Roughly, Premier for "Scale" and RailKing for "non-scale" (except for "RailKing Scale") for MTH. Legacy  (Scale) LionMaster/LionChief (non-scale) for Lionel. Atlas has Master/Trainman (and also Premier now) and had the Industrial Rail series but the later seems to have been shelved.

I think if we could discuss Premier, Legacy, Master, and Trainman products as well as GarGraves, Ross, Atlas, and MTH  ScaleTrax track products in the 3RS forum, it  would foster the sub-forum more. Obviously these would be generic discussions, not ones centered on control systems or a specific product itself - there are other sub-forums for that.

If I’m reading your reply right, and you’re suggesting the 3RS forum is used for modeling those products, then that I could get into…..like Pete mentioned, some of us are converting 2 rail brass to 3 rail, one would think that’s a shoe in for 3RS …but alas, the coil coupler ( as what I’ve been told by those on that forum ) is a no-no for 3RS,…..guess we need a sub-sub forum for those teetering on the brink……3RSISH ?……I totally agree the 3RS forum is lightly traveled, but again, let the advertisers advertise where they see fit, and when they see fit,…..if we look at it from the perspective of the people running this forum, advertising contacts can and do change at the drop of a hat, ….keeping them secure & satisfied is probably hard enough without adding “ you can go here, but not there” ….”oh wait, you’re over your limit “ ……a sponsor of this forum can be gone like the wind in a flash,…..it wasn’t ohhhh toooo long ago, a sponsor of this forum got irritated to the point he pulled out,….we worked really hard to keep his advertising dollars ( AND THE LIGHTS ON ) here on this forum ………imagine the maylay trying to police sponsors,……so, yeah, I agree whole heartedly, if there were more 3RS posts, the ads will wash in cycle and not be so “ bothersome” to some folks,…..NONE of the ads bother me,…..I see one and hope it’s working for them!!….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

If I’m reading your reply right…

I can’t tell from your reply if we agree, but let me try to distill it down.

1. Agree, sponsors can do as they please.

2. I think the 3RS forum is too tightly policed, leading to less participation. No one really knows what it means.

For instance if there were a topic say comparing the detail on Atlas Master SD35s to MTH Premier SD35s, I’d say that should be OK here, even if they still have factory lobster claws.

I think some would probably turn their noses up at it though.

Pete,

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is IT IS good to see you posting here again and stirring the pot.  While I have been horrible at keeping up with my modeling assignments due to the demands of a certain nameless manufacturer, a more than full-time job, and a recently turned teen daughter who keeps me on my toes much more than my two adult daughters ever did, I would love to see what you have been up to.  It is no doubt fantastic regardless of what another formerly active NYC modeler on this forum who shall also remain nameless may say in both private and public.

@rplst8 posted:

I can’t tell from your reply if we agree, but let me try to distill it down.

1. Agree, sponsors can do as they please.

2. I think the 3RS forum is too tightly policed, leading to less participation. No one really knows what it means.

For instance if there were a topic say comparing the detail on Atlas Master SD35s to MTH Premier SD35s, I’d say that should be OK here, even if they still have factory lobster claws.

I think some would probably turn their noses up at it though.

Boiled down expertly, ………I agree…😉

Pat

I find this an interesting topic.  I have no problems with the sponsors, but I do have a hard time with the 3 rail scale definition requiring the scale couplers.  Projects I have worked in the past (such as craftsman caboose kits) that I am requesting help/advice on in making close to the prototypes, the expertise is in 3 rail scale group, but because I still use the larger couplers, posting there is frowned upon.

Maybe I am alone, but I don’t feel like my modeling style or  train preferences on my hi-rail layout fit into the traditional toy train forum.  I am  a much closer fit to the 3 rail scale, minus the scale couplers and fixed pilots.   I am having trouble suggesting revised guidelines, but it seems to me that scale engines (or near scale) operating in a hi-rail environment is in the general area.

I agree Mike. I think it should be any modification, detailing, weathering,  engine or car building project as long as it’s a scale model should be part of 3RS. Anything you do make  it more detailed or prototypical. To what level you take it is up to you.  I don’t see why it has to start with running Kadee’s to be included. Most are still running 3 rail wheelsets. When that sub forum was started. Many posters were interested in going with Kadee’s and there was a lot of info. provided as to how to go about it. Once everyone that wanted to go that route figured out how to add them. The interest died.

Hey Pete K, so awesome to see you posting! I hope all is well with you.