5121 switches

There is. You have to pull the solenoid wires to connect them to aux power. Search for the instruction sheet online.

My whole layout is 51...'s. The solenoid buzzing drives me nuts but nothing I can do about it now. Rewiring doesn't stop this.

Here's the instructions.

Hmmm...Lionel calls them "path switches." That's a new one on me.

@RSJB18 posted:

The solenoid buzzing drives me nuts but nothing I can do about it now. Rewiring doesn't stop this.

Thats the main reason I switched to gargraves track and switches, tbh.

@Penn-Pacific posted:

Thats the main reason I switched to gargraves track and switches, tbh.

Yea. I started out thinking a post war theme and have moved to more modern equipment. 18v with a PS2 Loco crawling at 5 smph over one of these switches is like nails on a blackboard 🤣🤣

@RSJB18 posted:

The solenoid buzzing drives me nuts but nothing I can do about it now. Rewiring doesn't stop this.

@Penn-Pacific posted:

Thats the main reason I switched to gargraves track and switches, tbh.

There is an easy fix for that, you've already done most of the work...

thank you for all the help!!!!!!!

About all of mine are fixed. I've tried both ways , cutting the middle wire in the solenoid , and more recently , drilling the rivets out, removing the bottom plate and insulating pad, and just cutting the middle wire ,insulating the remaining , and tieing those two wires together , and adding a jumper wire to the transformer "A" side. adding a "U" wire from the transformer post to the lockon . That takes care og the ground for the switches.

The solenoid method can be tricky, just make sure it is the wire centered benath where the coils center , ( at the plastic insulator) Those are the two that need to be tied together and a jumper added .

@ADCX Rob- Thanks. I've seen that video before. All of my switches are installed and I would have to do major surgery to convert them now. I did convert one as a test early on but since it didn't kill the buzz I didn't bother to continue. I'm on the hunt for some K-line 027's (and hen's teeth ) and would start changing out the main lines if I every get any.

I recall another thread about adding a capacitor to energize the solenoid but again, they would need to be converted on the bench.

Bob

I understand ! I've been toying with the idea of pulling up that plastic junk fast track and relaying my three rail , I have a small double loop . But just thinking about it moves me to just sigh and say " let sleeping dogs lie " 😀

Anyway, good luck ! 🚂🚂🚂

@RSJB18 posted:

@ADCX Rob- Thanks. I've seen that video before. All of my switches are installed and I would have to do major surgery to convert them now. I did convert one as a test early on but since it didn't kill the buzz I didn't bother to continue. You most likely didn't use filtered DC, did you? I'm on the hunt for some K-line 027's (and hen's teeth ) and would start changing out the main lines if I every get any.

I recall another thread about adding a capacitor to energize the solenoid but again, they would need to be converted on the bench.

Bob

Bob (and others who share an interest), here's some pros and cons to AC, DC, and capacitive discharge, all when used as external power to a switch.

First off, if you use the "pull the solenoid cover off the switch and modify the wires there" method, I don't think you would have to remove any switches, except those that you simply can't reach by laying on top of your table, getting stabbed in the side by a very small hobo with a bindle on his shoulder But I can certainly see where that might be a show-stopper.

Now, as far as the buzzing noise goes, there's a couple of ways to stop that. The first way is to use just pure, filtered D.C. But it has to be filtered with properly sized capacitors at your DC power supply - no more buzzing, period!

The downside to that method is that you can burn up switch coils if you're not careful, especially if you park your train on the switch!  I have tried this on a beta basis with the covers removed where I could feel the coils periodically and decide if they are getting too warm during normal use - crude, but highly informative method if you don't burn your fingers!. But this is the exact same malady suffered by AC users - if you park a train on a live switch, you can/will burn up the switch coil in short order!!

The cure for that is the capacitive discharge method where you charge up a capacitor (with DC of course), then let it discharge into the switch coil to change  the direction of the switch. After the initial discharge, the current flow through the switch coil drops to a much smaller value, limiting any heat damage to the coil. If you park your train right on top of a switch, the capacitive discharge method, if designed and installed correctly, will not cause any damage.

The downside to capacitive discharge is a) cost and effort to modify and install, and b) the time to recharge your capacitors can be an issue if your train is going through back-to-back switches. The cost can certainly be kept down by modifying/creating/building just one DC power supply to operate all your switches. And the time to recharge the capacitors can usually be adjusted to accommodate your particular switching arrangement - it's a balance between time-to-recharge vs. steady state current draw with a train parked on the switch. And if you promise yourself to NEVER park a train on a switch, then you wouldn't even have this concern!!

If you're still interested, there are other threads in OGR that discuss the how-to's of the capacitive discharge method.

George

@GeoPeg posted:

Bob (and others who share an interest), here's some pros and cons to AC, DC, and capacitive discharge, all when used as external power to a switch.

First off, if you use the "pull the solenoid cover off the switch and modify the wires there" method, I don't think you would have to remove any switches, except those that you simply can't reach by laying on top of your table, getting stabbed in the side by a very small hobo with a bindle on his shoulder But I can certainly see where that might be a show-stopper.

Now, as far as the buzzing noise goes, there's a couple of ways to stop that. The first way is to use just pure, filtered D.C. But it has to be filtered with properly sized capacitors at your DC power supply - no more buzzing, period!

The downside to that method is that you can burn up switch coils if you're not careful, especially if you park your train on the switch!  I have tried this on a beta basis with the covers removed where I could feel the coils periodically and decide if they are getting too warm during normal use - crude, but highly informative method if you don't burn your fingers!. But this is the exact same malady suffered by AC users - if you park a train on a live switch, you can/will burn up the switch coil in short order!!

The cure for that is the capacitive discharge method where you charge up a capacitor (with DC of course), then let it discharge into the switch coil to change  the direction of the switch. After the initial discharge, the current flow through the switch coil drops to a much smaller value, limiting any heat damage to the coil. If you park your train right on top of a switch, the capacitive discharge method, if designed and installed correctly, will not cause any damage.

The downside to capacitive discharge is a) cost and effort to modify and install, and b) the time to recharge your capacitors can be an issue if your train is going through back-to-back switches. The cost can certainly be kept down by modifying/creating/building just one DC power supply to operate all your switches. And the time to recharge the capacitors can usually be adjusted to accommodate your particular switching arrangement - it's a balance between time-to-recharge vs. steady state current draw with a train parked on the switch. And if you promise yourself to NEVER park a train on a switch, then you wouldn't even have this concern!!

If you're still interested, there are other threads in OGR that discuss the how-to's of the capacitive discharge method.

George

Thanks George. I thing ear plugs are a simpler solution........

Bob

I know the topic here is the electric switch tracks, but here's another idea to consider... the manual 5021/22 switches.

One advantage of the MPC-era designed manual switch track is the placement of the activation lever, which is horizontally operated, from the left to the right. This design lends itself very easily to be adapted so you can use nylon fishline to operate the switch track.

I drill a small hole into the switch track lever, and then 2 holes in the layout surface on each side of the switch track lever. I run nylon fish line from the switch track lever, through the holes in the layout surface and then to the facade of the edge of the layout. On this end, I use short pieces of painted wood dowel, one painted green and the other red to indicate which to pull to change direction of the switch track.

I call this a poor man's operating switch. NO, you don't have the automatic anti-derail feature. But you don't have to deal with the buzzing of the solenoid, or figuring out how to rewire all your switch tracks.

As a side note here, I thought I do some photos. Simple enough. But then I somehow imported hundreds of pictures accidentally into my train folder and I've now been at this "simple" job for a hour and a half... and am nowhere near finding the 3 photos I wanted. Suffice to say, I will never ever put anything digital on to my train layout. I run trains for fun, not frustration!

@brianel_k-lineguy posted:

As a side note here, I thought I do some photos. Simple enough. But then I somehow imported hundreds of pictures accidentally into my train folder and I've now been at this "simple" job for a hour and a half... and am nowhere near finding the 3 photos I wanted. Suffice to say, I will never ever put anything digital on to my train layout. I run trains for fun, not frustration!

Who hasn't been here and done that!??? Empathy abounds!

George

And more to the point, that's an excellent suggestion, Brian. I may give that a try in the near future. (manual switches, that is )

George

@RSJB18 posted:

Thanks George. I thing ear plugs are a simpler solution........

Bob

Yeah, I do tend to run on and on and on every now and then .... mostly now! And my grandson is sitting here critiquing everything and just informed me that I use way too many exclamation marks - imagine!!!

George

@brianel_k-lineguy posted:

I know the topic here is the electric switch tracks, but here's another idea to consider... the manual 5021/22 switches.

Folks here are quite resourceful.  I remember this method described in Raymond Yates' books.

Here is the method to motorized the 1022 switch as featured in the October/November 2012 issue of OGR:

Another forum member came up with this method to motorized the post-1969 manual O-27 switches:

@ADCX Rob posted:

Folks here are quite resourceful.  I remember this method described in Raymond Yates' books.

Here is the method to motorized the 1022 switch as featured in the October/November 2012 issue of OGR:

Very cute! I wouldn't want to be the motor in that scenario, but hey - it works and is quite ingenious!

@RSJB18 posted:

...I've seen that video before... I did convert one as a test early on but since it didn't kill the buzz I didn't bother to continue...

If it was done correctly, there cannot be any buzz as power is cut to the switch.