Hello everyone,
I am new to the hobby and have bought what I think is a quality 763e and matching tender. Year is 1940 gun metal grey and was professionally serviced and fully working. It was purchased from the Richard Kughn collection. I will include a few photos. Did not come with any boxes sadly. Curious on what you guys think its value is? Best Joe
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I'm no expert on value but I believe the grey colored units to be less common then the later black units. Did this come with a 263 tender or was this after the switch to the 226 tender?
It came with 2263W gun mental grey tender but i dont think that is the rare one. Not sure though.
I believe the 226 tender in grey is the rare one. One year only maybe? I've heard the grey on the 263 tender is not the same as when it comes with a grey 263e. The shade of grey is darker on a 763 I've heard.
If I'm looking for something to buy and I'm headed to York, I will often get on eBay and search under their Advanced Search (?) to see what items have sold for. I think it's a good indication of the market value if you see several of the same pieces going for $X.
Larry thank you I didn't know you could do an advanced search of already sold items. I' love my 763e!! Doesn't bother me I might have over paid a little at 1500 without boxes but that is ok.
Too much? Is a matter of your satisfaction. Understanding the market at any given time for a specific loco can be difficult, although a 763E is top of the line and will always bring decent money. I've never been into buying or selling EXC to LN locos, but I do know that action can get dicey and opinionated as to what detail is a problem and how much it should affect value. Not interested in getting into that tug of war. I don't have a 763E yet, I have a few pieces and keep an eye out for a few more lol They typically go for much more than I am willing to shell out. I once shelled out big bucks for a Marklin HR66-920 prewar with four 40cm cars and while I love the train and got a decent deal, the cost was well out of my comfort zone and I probably won't soon go that deep again. Then again, never say never. Best piece of advice I can give is to educate your self continually, never stop learning. Know what you like and want, and know it well enough that you can make a snap decision with little or no info and crappy pictures and not be upset later. In other words, know where your comfort zone is for any given piece cheap or high priced. stick to your game plan and know when to jump. I have gotten quite a few good deals by pouncing instantly. Prewar 227 switcher with tender for $125 on a buy it now, Brass Williams K4's, one for $75 and a second for $139. Got a ultra rare Lionel postwar 2347 C&O geep with a prewar 203 Switcher and it's set for about $200... The 2347 is probably worth 1k or so...but the pictures on the auction sucked but I knew what I was looking for and new specific details that I could recognize that mad me 100% on what I was bidding on. If you go off and bid or buy and and you don't know, your asking to be upset later. Case in point, you should'a known the iffs and but's of which tender in which color is truely normal verus hard to find. That could have left you to pay way too much. Same could be said for spotting a repaint or fake when it comes to high end stuff. You have to be very careful. I'ma bottom feeder so I have a lot more room to play, but I do come up for some nice stuff on occasion.
Do you have documentation that it came from the Richard Kughn collection?
One similar sale (but slightly poorer condition) on eBay went for $900 on 3/4/2020.
Yours is fully serviced and working +$$$
Richard Kughn collection: I’m sure guys would pay some premium to have that +$$$
I believe I saw your purchase price of $1,500. In an auction environment, I think you did fine. In a private sale, haggle situation, you may have been able to do better - but that wasn’t the situation.
Bottom line is you have a great piece to enjoy, which is worth something too.
Thanks guys!!!
I did do a good amount of research before I decided to purchase but as many of you know, there are always a lot of variables. Especially when you purchase online. I do have some paperwork with it and am in the process of acquiring more. They were asking 2200 for it originally and I negotiated down to 1350 before tax and shipping which brought it to the 1500. I'm happy it is all professionally serviced and working great!
I think you did very well...a Richard Kughn piece especially. I agree with the adage that something is worth what someone is willing to pay. That said, I do like the eBay search feature when I really don't know what a value range of something is. It doesn't even need to be train related.
BTW, nice negotiating skills, too!
Yes, preserve and retain the provenance, (any proving documentation it came from Kughn collection), like maybe auction paper from seller documenting his source, etc.!)
First, congratulations on owning something from the Kughn collection. I believe Richard Kughn will always be known as the man who saved the Lionel brand.
That is a beautiful piece. I hope it's just the photos, but the color looks a bit darker than Lionel's original gunmetal. Was it presented in the sale as original, or a repaint? Also, if it has the 2263w tender, that would put it at 1937-1939. 1940 was the only year the gunmetal 763e was sold with the 2226 coal tender, making it very difficult to find. After 1940, they kept the coal tender but changed the color to black.
I'm glad to hear yours runs well. The frame of this loco is prone to warping, which affects performance.
John
It appears to be a good quality restoration. The boiler looks repainted - it is very dark - cab is definitely re stamped and the font is wrong. Handrails look replaced and the stanchions are replacement turnings. Rods or rod screws are all replaced. Drawbar pin chain is incorrect and replaced. This locomotive has been thoroughly gone through at the least. Word are wind as far as provenance..unless you have it in writing.
As to value, prewar Hudsons tend to maintain values... but are heavily condition dependent. Parts locos go for $600-$800. A full set of scale wheels is $500-$600. A prewar 700E steam chest goes for $500. Common varies that are mostly original and have un-warped shells typically sell for $800 to $2000 (763E/2263W Gunmetal, 763E/2226W Black) Uncommon varieties - or common but desirable - typically sell for $1600 to $4500 (763E/2226W Gunmetal, 700E/ 700T Black) and really nice, fully equipped, boxed of these are $3200-$8000. The truly rare (700K still boxed and unpainted with all the paper)... well lets just say most people have never seen one much less can afford one.
The boiler shell is straight on this one... from your pictures anyway . You should enjoy running this locomotive . If you can add tender photos, close-up cab window shots, and a straight from the front shot to your photos, that would be good.
I would say that you got an ok value. Good thing you negotiated the price down! You should be able to get your money back if you sell it.
Hey Rob thanks for all of your insight. To be honest, I was hoping it was more original than it appears to be turning out. I contacted a train shop that does appraisals so I plan on having them go through the entire train and tender in person. You have pointed out several details I sure they will identify as well. I will post more pictures for you. If it was indeed repainted and font re-stamped does that kill its value? Does anybody know of the correct paint color and font to use to correct it? I thought this was a 40 but some are saying it is a 39 due to the tender. Is there a number anywhere on the loco that could definitively date it?
Anything not original day 1 takes from the value.
Worn but original; something could be worth more
Larry Mullen posted:something is worth what someone is willing to pay. That said, I do like the eBay search feature when I really don't know what a value range of something is.
You can learn a lot from eBay selling prices, but you need to be careful in evaluating them. I see many what I might call accidental giveaways.
You'll see several instances of a moderately scarce item that look the same sell for a price of say $50 and then another a few days later for 100 and then another for 75. Read the descriptions to be sure they are really the same. A key question is was it an auction price or a buy-it-now. I've seen items go for much less than what I think is their real value simple because the seller started at too low a price and it happened that the buyer who might have paid 100 just didn't happen to be looking in that seven day period. If the seller had listed it as B-I-N around 100 and been patient, he'd have doubled his money.
I sell about 20 to 30 tinplate items a month on eBay. I will usually use a B-I-N on the high side or recent sales, using the make an offer option. I use the auction only for items that are hard to value and might go for much more than I expect. First I'll post a note or photo to this and other forums to see if others will estimate the value. Then I list it as an auction with a starting price that is the minimum I'd be reasonably OK with. I nearly always get more than one bid, and occasionally I've gotten three to four times that amount.
With this strategy, I average sales in the high end of the eBay ranges.
I just saw an original mint condition 763e with tender an boxes sell for 1600 a few months ago now that I've been looking though the advanced search sold items on ebay..oh well. It was still a dream of mine to have one and now i do 
!!!
I didn't see the one that you mentioned, but as others, I think, stated above...if you're happy with it, that's all that matters. I think there is additional value, in my mind, that it came from Richard Kuhn's collection. While the inherent value of that may be impossible to place, knowing that you have that "Richard Kuhn piece" would increase the value in my mind.
I have an MGB and it was my first car that I bought when I was 16. Long story short, it has the undesirable rubber bumpers and the original one was irreversibly damaged by a mechanic. People are giving them away as they convert their own cars to chrome bumpers. I just found a NOS rubber bumper on ebay that had never been mounted on car. Probably 100% of the MG community will tell me that it was a terrible purchase, but I felt like it was a steal. Much of it is in the eye of the beholder.
Enjoy your train; you did fine.
Thanks Larry!
Hoping I didn't pay too much for my prewar 763e and what I believe may be an almost complete work train (missing the spotlight car?), as I'll be needing some parts. I bid on an item in a local online auction that seemed to contain a prewar 268w tender, and the 618 caboose, 810 Crane, and 812 gondola. The pic also showed an outline of a loco in the corner of the pic so I took a chance. There were some neat old items so I was willing to pay a bit more hoping that I would be redeemed. When I went to retrieve the box, I found it included the 763E, and also some neat old accessories including a 6457 caboose and 2671w tender in really nice condition. I ended up paying $260. However, the 763e loco has two driver wheels with broken flanges, the lead truck wheels are chipped and cracked, and the trailing truck wheels are notched and one of the spoked wheels has dissolved around the axel. Wondering if it got dropped or something. It clearly hasn't been run as the driver wheels turn but seem to be really gummed up. Other than that, it looks to be in great shape.
Questions:
Any advice would greatly be appreciated. Also, the loco, tender, and cars all seem so large in comparison to other Lionel prewar tinplate items (comparing my Lionel #2657 caboose to the #617). Why is that? When I first took the items out of the box I thought they might be standard gauge. The tender wheels are huge.
Much of what Lionel was producing in cars during the reign of the 763 was tinplate. The mating of the tinplate tender was to make thes cars compatible with the scale sized boiler. I suppose public reaction to the odd combination persuaded Lionel to later mate the 226 tender with the 763.
Categorized as an O72 set, 769W Work train outfit cost $52.50 in 1939. Like the 700e, 072 minimums are recommended. You need to hunt up a 2820 floodlight car to complete the set. Try Hennings Trains for the loco parts you may need.
Bruce
Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the locomotive has a bow to it, …like maybe the shell is warped??…..the shells & the chassis on these are known to warp,…..some really bad,….can you post up a closer pic of the engine sitting on a table ….
Pat
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...6#179087886759721036
More pics of the 763e - she looks nice and straight to me, though the pics don't show the gun metal gray against the counter tops.
Yep!….looks great!
Pat
Looks like a Lionel 763E Loco and whistle tender just sold in the latest Cabin Fever Auction. I like the pics as they're helping me identify and confirm details that I need to remediate on mine, vs. the 700E locos that seem to have very different valve gear etc. Cabin Fever Auctions (bidwrangler.com)
There are a few Lionel Prewar 763e locos up for auction on the Cabin Fever auction site that's ending this evening with some appealing prices so far:
The also have a Prewar 700e:
and two postwar 773's:
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