Dmaxdeere87 posted:

They had so much trouble with the flyer cheif versions, I'd cancel too.  Lots of new. Boards. 

I have 3 and never had a problem with the boards. Also, never heard of others having problems. Interested to hear what type of trouble.

We are a Lionel repair station and have had several issues with both the Lionel and AF Chief systems. Mostly issues with the smoke systems. Either no fan or element voltages.  We have had some that needed 3 boards swaps before they worked properly.   We can not repair them as there is no documentation or repair
sub-boards available.  Also the tender tether wiring between the Bluetooth and first generation are not compatible. Neither are most of the boards connectors.


Rusty Traque posted:

"What more can be said about the Legacy Berkshires now that they're cancelled."  He sez...

Some final thoughts about the cancellation of the Legacy Berks.

I'm skipping the facts and fictions about overseas manufacturing.  Those have and will continue to be discussed as the detriment and benefits of modern model train manufacturing in various threads and forums ad infinitum.

I'll take Ryan's explanation at face value and not assign blame: Not enough orders and increased costs of practically all new tooling killed the project.

However, I think these two issues contributed substantially:

Duplication of effort:  After two runs of the FlyerChief Berks, only the American Railroads and RF&P locomotives were "new" roadnames in Legacy.  The other four roads were well represented in the FlyerChief versions.  Granted you're dealing with a well known NKP prototype, so in the strictest sense that sort of limits other roadname choices to NKP and something visually similar. 

However, I can't help wonder if wandering off into fantasy-land a little might have made the difference.  Illinois Central, Louisville & Nashville, Santa Fe and others all rostered their own classes of Berkshires.  Southern Pacific got some second-hand B&M Berks.  While the wheel arrangement with these are the only common link with an NKP Berk, maybe adding some of these roads and eliminating some of the duplicates might have helped in the pre-order department.

Optics: When I first looked at the 2018 Volume 1 catalog, I wondered why there were four pages of FlyerChief Berkshires.  I didn't give it a second thought until someone mentioned it here on the forum that the first two pages were of Legacy models.  Now OK, shame on me for just lookin' at the pretty pictures and not reading the description, but anyone casually glancing through the catalog probably came to the same conclusion.

It's well known Lionel (and MTH) use Photoshop for cataloging purposes.  As the Legacy Berks were to be more detailed cousins to the F/C Berks, this may have been an instance where the O Scale Berkshire could have been Photoshopped to better represent the S Scale model.  I don't know if any of the CAD drawings were available when the catalog was printed.  If so, maybe they could have been included to help differentiate the Legacy version from the FlyerChief versions.



Good point Rusty. The ONLY place that listed ALL of the new improved features was the post on this forum by Ryan. The vast majority of potential customers might not have know that they would have new detail parts, separate handrails, 4 chuffs/rev, and Kadee mounting pads. Personally I would have been happy to order two at double the price instead of the four that I was ordering. Heck, if they would have given it whistle steam I would have paid up to $1100 for one.

I think this will be the last attempt at a high-end S scale steam locomotive from Lionel. I don't believe that their customer base will support models at the price that they would need to charge. If they couldn't get enough orders at this bargain price... 

6 years ago I thought that S would be my perfect scale as I loved the size and Lionel was going to make O scale jr. without the stupid 3 rail compromises. The thoughts of S scale Legacy controlled Hudsons, Mohawks, J's, Daylights, EM-1s, K4's, etc... danced through my head. I was so excited. Now I'm just defeated. S is dead IMHO. Time to move on.


Hi Folks,

I just want to clear up a misconception in this thread, that is, that Lionel did not get enough orders for the AF Legacy Berk.

I talked with Ryan Kunkle at the York Meet. Lionel was pleased with the number of orders and interest in the AF Legacy Berks. The tooling costs came in much higher they had anticipated/planned, so they could not produce the Berks at the original selling price. If they had an incredibly large order, they may have been able to absorb some of the cost and still done the run, but not the case. 

So the number of orders was fine for the original tooling cost/selling price and the AF Legacy Berks would have been produced.

My interpretation of what Ryan also said was that based on the interest in the AF Legacy Berks, they would be considering future AF Legacy projects. No guarantees of course or hints, but for those that might care, we are still in the game. 


Flyer 52 posted:

My interpretation of what Ryan also said was that based on the interest in the AF Legacy Berks, they would be considering future AF Legacy projects. No guarantees of course or hints, but for those that might care, we are still in the game. 


At the TCA presentation during the Q&A, (the video's on Youtube, look up TCA Netvision) Ryan mentioned the Legacy Berk may be revisited in the future, but don't look for it anytime soon.  He also mentioned cancelling the Berk doesn't close the door on Legacy Flyer locomotives.

I suspect any future new-tooled Legacy locomotive will also be priced more realistically.


Quick Casey posted:

If Lionel ever produces the Legacy Berk, they should look into the SD-40 they once promised. They could make a whole new series, "The Revisited Series."  Special packaging, certificates of authenticity, the possibilities are endless..

They could start a new Vaporware division...

Jeff C

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