Alaska Railroad Plan

Hi Orind,

I am an Alaska RR fan. The one fact that I discovered when trying to determine what to model is the sheer enormity of the terrain even when scaled.

So, compressing the elements of the railroad and scenery that you like can be totally up to you.

The Port of Whittier, the Portage Tunnel and the run to the wye at Twenty Mile River is enormous.

Seward to the wye at Twenty Mile River is a big run, too.

Definitely use your own photos for the back drop.

here's something to ponder - a V- shape - Anchorage to both ports. It looks like it will take up too much space. I wanted to see how it would look. O48 turn-arounds. O36 is a little small for my SD70mac's.

4' wide at one end and 8' at the other end.

Here's the concept with an O48 continuous run. It's not fitting well...

Seward has a cool wye near the dock area for turning around

Yep--compression is a must--I had to pick the elements along the path I wanted to incorporate, and le the rest go--or scale back--say just Anchorage to Portage.  I decided the elements I wanted:  Bird Creek--chance to model a river, build a bridge, and scenic with elbow to elbow fisherman.  Wildlife center (at Portage area)--chance to populate the layout with various animals.  I want to model a glacier.  So, with those elements in mind, I started playing with AnyRail and laying out tracks--48" minimum curves, the ability to run a continuous loop, incorporation of a reversing loop to alternate train direction if desired,  enough hidden track to store hold an assembled train, and a bit of a yard for my switching engine to look busy in.

So--a little re-working on the plan as I got out the measuring tape and did some careful measuring--The entrance from the living room to dining room has a constriction point--30 inch long partial wall and the yard would create too small a passage way--I am thinking I may contract out for professional design service at this point--bring in a new perspective on space utilization. 

Ok, flipped the V, put in some wall outlines really close to your measurement (+ - 1/8")  Grid is 5"

Thanks Moonman--let me ponder and work with this a bit.

OK--took Moonman's idea and worked it a bit more--I also included a bit more information--Moonman--I want more space on that back wall to scenic behind the track--from Anchorage to Portage the train runs along the Turnagain Arm, with the highway elevated above the tracks, then mountain--It will also allow me to hind a staging track for an assembled train--but, I had not considered folded the track as you did--so, here are both plans--both have advantages/disadvantages (don't they always). The Folded Dogbone gives me more linear mainline with more scenicing opportunities, although I have to keep it narrow where it crosses the dining room to living room--I was thinking I would do that as a double track bridge to keep it open looking.

I'm confused about the hidden staging track.
-- Photo P1 shows 2 hidden tracks with a spur(?) in Whittier. I get the "hidden" aspect because I plan one for my layout so I can alternate trains. However, I don't understand the spur or how it's going to be serviced. Run into the tunnel and back into the spur?
-- Photo P2 shows only 1 track that I assume is hidden (though there are no tunnel portals shown) and 2 spurs(?) in Anchorage. Again, run into the tunnel and back into the spurs? Can't quite figure the "hidden" operation compared to P1. Seems like P2 should have 2 hidden tracks like P1. Note refers to "tracks", but there's only 1.

I like P2 more. Operationally, I don't think you lose anything, assuming there's supposed to be 2 hidden tracks. The running is virtually the same, only much longer runs in P2, which says "Alaska", and more scenic opportunities.
-- P1 has 1 large city (Anchorage), 1 moderate city (Portage) and 1 very small area (Whittier).
-- P2 has 2 moderate cities (Seward and Anchorage) and 1 smaller city (Portage).

Not sure how you plan to scenic the long narrow run in P2.

P1 Whittier--The prototype line branches at Portage and the train goes through a tunnel and pops out in Whittier--literally, with 2 lines to a yard--I was not really looking at "servicing" the line so much as it filled the space in a semi realistic fashion, allowing me to model the Whittier tunnel.

Yes, the track along the back wall is hidden--got a little lazy on the drawing.  I actually will not be modeling Anchorage--the label is there more for direction--I am picking up just outside of Anchorage--I am going to Model Potty Marsh inside the loop on a removable access panel.  I will likely use one of my photographs of the city of Anchorage downtown area in the back corner to give some depth--the spur is really just for visual effect, and someplace to park my SW1500---I would love more of a yard for it to work in, but I just am not finding the space.

Not sure I would call Portage a city.  The train stop is a small building/shed and tourists usually get shuttled to the Glacier or Wild Life center from there--Whittier is larger than Portage.  My main scenicing in that area will actually be the Wildlife center.

The long narrow run in P2 is a scenicing challenge, and while I like the longer mainline run of P2, it has its challenges..I was looking at widening the section a bit once I am through the constriction point--updated P2 attached.

Thanks, Orind, that explains things perfectly and I support the expansion. I'd prefer a double-main all the way around to run 2 trains unattended, but understand the constraints. I think you have a nice design and landscaping ideas given your goals and space.

Yep--double mainline is nice--my N scale layout is double.  I accepted I was going to lose that going to O, but there is enough variation in paths a train can go that with a little programing of routes multi train operation so long as someone is at the controls will work well, and provide a good amount of variety in how a train makes it around.  After you brought up the issue of landscaping the skinny stretch, I gave it some thought and decided that will be Moose Pass.  The plan is going to get some more though experiments, and ultimately, construction will not begin until mid September--I spend a lot of time mountain/road biking during the summer months--one of my favorite rides is Indian to Girdwood and back---the bike path follows the train tracks and road along the inlet, and it is a lot of fun when the passenger trains go by--lots of happy tourists waiving.

Maybe we'll see you on an episode of Railroad Alaska. We're planning a cruise next summer. I've been to Elmendorf and Clear a few times, but my wife hasn't. I'm actually considering a cruise up and another cruise back, though I haven't given up on getting my wife to let me drive our Prius and taking local boat tours.

I think you are heading in the right direction now. The passenger train needs a nice continuous run. Perhaps a recording with a couple of stop programmed in. Then you can haul the freight manually.

There is a long passing siding comin out of Portage Tunnel.

I was using the angles to minimize the intrusion into the living space in the fireplace room.  Note that I used around 6 1/2' - 7' and you have gone well into the room the end. Yes, it did create a narrow aisle. I was thinking that it would only provide infrequent access instead of hatches.

Your choice on that one.

The other concern that I have is the fireplace. Is that used for backup heat? One track over the firebox can have some aluminum under it to deflect heat. Do you really want a table that wide blocking access and heat convection?

Just some thoughts to ponder...

Riding along Turnagain must be spellbinding.

I do have a local question - Is there any red dirt is this region from the old volcanoes? It seems to me from my research that most of area N - NE from Anchorage to Fairbanks is mostly gray. The Glacial silt makes most of the rivers have a gray bottom and appear gray at times.

The fireplace is unused--it is a standard stock fireplace meaning it losses more heat than it generates.

No red dirt. 

The glacial silt does give the water an interesting appearance.  Bird Creek and the creeks coming out of the Portage area have a blue-grey coloring to them from the silt.  The inlet develops what we call mud flats--not good for walking on--when the tide is out it looks inviting to go stroll on, but it can be like quicksand as the ultra fine particles supend easily.  Attached is a photot of Portage Glacier and one of the inlet--the Bridge in the scene is over Bird Creek.  The photo was taken before "green-up" but after winter.

I got an interesting perspective on Alaska Railroad train operations with "Train Dispatcher 2" freeware, or "TD2". It's an older program that will not run on newer 64-bit Windows, but I picked up an older XP laptop for $20 just to run this program and it was worth it. There is a good assortment of free TD2 track libraries for dispatching many different railroad territories. This might be a good way to get ideas for planning out model railroad operating possibilities, and building a layout to suit.

TD2 freeware available here: http://www.signalcc.com/train2/td2freeware.html

There is also a newer "Train Dispatcher 3" program for a price, which I have not tried.

Thanks for the local info. I would have thought there would have been some red dirt from the volcanoes, but I suppose they are more NE.

Back to the layout - rising 12" from the living room to the dining room, if you start in the curve,  that only gets about 15'. That's 12"/180"=6.7% change.

Split the difference between the two rooms - raise one table height to 40" and lower the other to 46".

Also, you may want to get a few spurs of the Seward yard inside of loop to do some freight switching. Otherwise the layout will get boring. Perhaps behind the scenic divider opposite the Glacier scene.

I like the passing siding along the wall. It actually exists on the Anchorage side of the tunnel. It will make for some fun holding the passenger train for the freight to go through.

Your photos are great. Find a printer or Staples to price some large format prints for your backdrop. You'll have to find the distance perspective that looks the best.

Well--I need to  adjust the layout a bit--I did not take into account the depth of the fireplace mantel (9 inches) and my track needs to come forward a bit there.

I was going to run the layout at zero elevation change--the bench heights would change from living room to dining room.  My current N scale layout runs above the mantle--this leaves the table height in the Dining room nice, but then my son and I are the only ones tall enough to enjoy it on the living room side--everyone else gets a chair to stand on to view the trains--so I may incorporate some elevation changes---I added the mantle depth to the file:

Ok. I wasn't sure how you would handle the height difference. I interpreted the notes as building in an elevation change.

Your on it.

More thought experiments going on.  The height difference of 12 inches between the two rooms presents its challenges, combine with a mantle height of 51 inches in the living room----I plan to set the base of the benchwork even with the mantle--catch 22--bench height becomes a little low in the dining room (39 inches), and a little high in the living room (although I am 6'2" so it is perfect for me).  I got rid of the spur in the upper left, and added a little yard in one loop.

Gee Toto, don't think we're in Kansas anymore. 

Keep up the good work! 

Two observations:
-- You changed the direction of top left crossover, so now once you reverse, you can't reverse again without backing through one of the reversing loops. Either change the direction back, change the direction of the right crossover or add a crossover to the right lower track.
-- The yard tracks will only hold 3 cars each. Move the 3 turnouts one straight track length to the right and you can add some length to the spurs to get 4 cars each.

Thank you DoubleDaz--changes incorporated

Just a quick note. You can probably start to crossovers on the curves on both sides and maybe get more length to the hidden siding while avoiding the "S" curves. Should have noticed the "S" curves earlier, sorry.

that looks awesome! keep it going!
im just a beginner compare to you!
wish i could ever perform such plan as well!

DoubleDaz--changes incorporated--yes, makes the hidden track longer and layout flows better--thank you.

Larsonsun--thanks for the compliment, It has been lots of feedback from forum members that have helped shape this plan.

Orind posted:

DoubleDaz--changes incorporated--yes, makes the hidden track longer and layout flows better--thank you.

Just paying it forward. Someone gave me that tip a couple of years ago and it's come in very handy on most of the designs I've worked on since, including my latest one.

Have you completely thrown out the idea of the station at Denali? Even if you compressed it, that tall, wooden, trestle is a killer !!! I know, I ran across it all the way to the other side and my wife threatened to kill me if the trestle didn't kill me. See the hat in my photo.

I have chosen the line from Anchorage south---of course that does not mean a can not change it--but, the passenger cars I am running are consistent with the Anchorage/Seward run, not the Anchorage Denali run.

No reason you couldn't put a trestle in the middle of the lower run between the glacier and wildlife center, it doesn't have to be "in" Denali. You could skirt the bottom on both sides with photos of the valley. I think it might go well with the mountain photos I assume you'll have on the wall.

Actually, there is a "double bridge" there--yes, I can do it as a trestle.

Orind posted:

When I was in Alaska back in 85 Portage Lake had a lot of mini icebergs in it and it was pretty cold  on the shore even tho it was the first week of August.  There was a guy there using a chainsaw to sculpt a larger than life grizzly. We did a rafting trip outside of Denali and the guides called the river silt "rock flour" because it was a fine as flour. One of the neat things we saw on the river was a coal seam that the river had cut thru in the past, a black 45 degree stripe running almost top to bottom in the river gorge. I have to go back, not sure if my wife would enjoy a similar trip, lots of long driving and sleeping in the car but I was in my 20s at the time and looked at it like an adventure.

Jerry

Orind posted:

Actually, there is a "double bridge" there--yes, I can do it as a trestle.

I just think a large trestle would be a great piece, but you're the one doing the work.

Need to re-work the switches I changed from S curves--one of the goals of that back hidden track is to store either the freight or passenger train when I only want one running--current switch layout has the display line (closest to the water) as the  storage line.

Then may I suggest this:

or this:

The point is you have to be able to move between runs from either direction in order to use the reversing loops and not have to back through one.

Thanks.

Playing with Sketchup--want to mock up the benchwork to get a feel for how it will be in the room--I have my basic room modeled--now it is time to virtually build the benchwork.

Still a bit crude, but then again, still learning--just installed the software today so pretty easy to learn the basics.--Of course finding those invisible legs at the local home store may be tough.

What, Ace doesn't sell anti-grav units in your area?

I am glad you posted the 3D of the two rooms. There's something I hinted at with the last offering, but I may as well say it... I don't know why you want to invade or take up so much of the people and dog space in these two wonderful rooms.

A 6' x 29' table at 42"- 46" table height with 3 access hatches will work nicely. You just have to flip the Seward turnaround inward like my example.

If you want to see what that does, let me know. Ingenerio 1 (Alex) just had some visitors. There is a video of him on his roller seats under the table and a guest going up through a hatch.