Ambrose Bauer

This topic and that letter appear periodically.  I've concluded that they get the names and addresses right from the TCA directory.

Unfortunately, I believe you're wrong about that.  The mailing list most likely does come from the TCA.

They are a pretty well-known (in the toy train world) toy train auction house:

 

http://ambrosebauer.com/

 

I beleive they use the TCA member directory as a source for their mailing list, as I didn't start getting their mailings until I joined the TCA.

 

Andy

Thank you both for the information.

Thanks Bruce, that's helpful.  ;-)

 

Joking around aside, I called TCA and my "settings" in the directory are already private, although at some point they may have been public.  Apparently AB trolls the TCA listings and then turns the results into a mailing list for business purposes.  TCA is in a tough spot, because as a member club based on the enjoyment of trains, part of that membership is having access to other members and verifying that they are members -- for example, some folks will take a personal check if it has a TCA number on it.  On the other hand, AB is the only firm I've seen use its TCA membership to put together a list for business purposes.  So it strikes me as slimy.  I'll take it up with AB and have my name removed from their list.  I will also send an email to TCA (per the suggestion of the business office) to suggest if they think about whether there is a way, operationally, for them to make the member list available for individual inquiries but not availale for "omnibus requests" that would be used to put together mailings.  It may not be feasible but I will raise the issue respectfully.

They used to sell a lot of stuff on eBay as well. You may have won an item from them in the past.

 

Pete

Yeah, I get these. I'm in the TCA and LCCA, was briefly in LOTS, was in the Lionel RR

Club, was in the Atlas Club...and so forth. Who knows where they got my name - from

the interplanetary ether, maybe (or from a magazine subscription...hmmm?).

 

Anyway, the creepy thing about them to me is how -long- these Bauer letters are - 

multiple single-spaced lines of type that seem to go on forever. Who would read all

this? I never have.

 

Anyway, odd correspondence. 

Nope, not me.  I generally don't use ebay and when I do it is not for trains.  A couple of small parts here and there from vendors (ECTP, Hennings) that I know from in person dealings.

I think they are creepy, too. Especially since they are lawyers and have a long list of fine print. They don't take PayPal, either, or at least my memory says they never used to.

I also receive their correspondence and it gets shredded!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My personal opinion is the senders information on the inbound envelope has nothing to do with model railroading and it is very misleading to me and probably most who receive the same information. Based upon this sales approach, I would never use their services.

I have made purchases at the AB auctions in the past, so I am sure that is why I receive these letters. I too, find the letters to be creepy, long winded, and somewhat incoherent. What bothers me most about the letter is the attacks on other business's and individuals. It seems to me that a business that is seeking customers should stand on its own merits without resorting to attacking others. Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Randall

Paul Ambrose & Drew Bauer. I know them well, Paul is a snob, Drew is a nice guy.

Looking for a reputable and reliable live auction house?  My personal recommendation in the world of toy trains would be to check out Stout Auctions (www.stoutauctions.com).

Recevied one in the mail today. Will be sending them a LARGE envelope full of shred!

 

...keep the rails polished...

You are absolutely right Randall when you point out that a business that attacks or tries to discredit their competition in order to convince you to use they're services is usually not worthy of our patronage.

 

It's their job to sell you on their own merits. I am highly skeptical of any business that tries to tear down they're competition. First of all you are telling and insulting your prospective customer by insinuating that they are suckers for using the competition. 

 

I also receive letters periodically from AB and I am convinced it is because I belong to the TCA.

 

Steve Tapper 

If you use a computer, smart phone, or any other device I can find out where you live, your name, your relatives, kids names ,what you have bought online, your thoughts if you ever posted on any other social network like twitter, Facebook and many others. 

 

So you see there is no secrets. Always remember nothing is private anymore. 

 

Welcome to 1984

You're naïve if you think this is anything but the usual course of business these days. Lots and lots of firms have your name from all sorts of sources and sell that information to businesses for marketing and other purposes. Organizations and companies of all sorts routinely sell that information to such firms to make additional money. You can bet the TCA does it, too.

 

I have a friend who's a licensed private investigator and I was talking to him about such things a few years ago. Let me just say that you wouldn't believe the amount of information that is out there about you. Forget about privacy.

 

Companies collect your credit card data, for example, and track your buying habits based upon your credit card purchases, and sell that information. That's just one example.

 

No sense being paranoid. As the old saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching you. Ambrose and Bauer aren't doing anything different from lots of organizations these days. It's just business as usual now.

I get a letter from them now and then. I have bought Lionel postwar metal cabooses from them via 2 eBay auctions. They showed many close-up photos of these excellent condition items, and I was very pleased with my purchases.

Yea I get the letters too with their return address of their law firm. It's like oh boy now what. Then I open the letter and its oh these guys again. I don't belong to the TCA but am a member of the LCCA and been a subscriber to OGR and CTT for many years. Were not hard to track down.

Yeah, I was never upset by their mailings.  Creepy is what I think of when I get the ones for crypts, hearing aids, male performance aids, etc.

I am a lawyer and I feel uncomfortable with the "small print" they use. I'm still old school and a hand shake works for me. Sometimes, if you prepare for "the worst", your conduct may actually bring it about.

I am glad this has led to a good discussion.  Thank you.  I believe AB's behavior is unseemly because the firm is using its membership in a charitable organization -- TCA -- to further its commercial interest. TCA was not established so that the members could mine the member directory for pecuniary gain.  Of course this is minor stuff in the big scheme of things but it doesn't lessen the fact that it is an unseemly business practice. 

I believe they are the ones who sell untested items.  I bought once and received a totally inoperable piece.  Had to send it back, did get my money back, but why bother. How hard is it to have a test track for a post war piece. 

Same here. I've purchased over the years from them, Drew Bauer first when he was by himself, and then from Ambrose-Bauer. They're thorough, for sure. But no complaints. All my dealings with them and items received were always first class.

Sometimes, but often, as the Robert Frost poem says, "Good fences make good neighbors."

Contact the bar association of the state where he practices.  Using the address of his law firm in such a way seems unethical.

RL NYC has stated he has limited exposure. So, I am inclined to agree that a TCA member is mining the member directory.

 

So, I put the onus on the organization to control this activity as it seems an abuse of the membership privileges.

 

There is a person that is a member of another organization that I belong to with very controlled access to member information. One of the members decides to use that information to send sales or marketing email, similar to the AB type correspondence.

This insulted me an as abuse of privilege as we had no previous contact. A call to the organization has cleared that up.

 

So, I would lean on TCA to contact members abusing the membership directory.

It think sone of you guys have been in the basement to long. Buy anything on the Internet and someone is going to get your info either legally or not. If you do not have really good security software and even if you do but they do not. Someone will get it. Not much different than when people would search dumpsters behind restaurants that used to print your credit card info on the receipt. Just high tech electronic trolling. Set up a yahoo or google online email just for online purchases. Even your email on this forum should've an online email with minimal or fake info like address etc. Use a separate email behind a secure firewall for any sensitive dealings like banking, investments, etc. Even then and being on every no call list there is, some idiot with a random number auto dialer eventually gets through to my corporate cell phone. Just hang up on them.

I would NOT use them if they were the last resource on earth. I would also NOT recommend Stouts at all due to bad personal experience. If I had to, I would use New England Toy Train Exchange.

 

Gandy

Keep in mind that AB only has members of LOTS, LCCA, TTOS,and TCA as auction buyers. Occasionally they will have a Live Auctioneers one but that is just to attract new blood - cause you can only do that once. So anyone from those 4 clubs is likely to get a AB letter.

 

I'm not bothered by the letters...they're being upfront and everything is spelled out. No worse than these letters from real estate agents with your house details wanting you to sell. I think there is a lot less to go wrong with them then others. I've been dealing with them for a while and haven't had any issues.

 

Peter

Most stuff from auction houses is not tested. Condition/grade does not mean that it works, in fact you should assume that it well need some work . Obviously, the older the item the more that is true.

 

Peter

There was lawsuit and countersuit and I believe the end result was AB got the right to use member lists for marketing purposes.

I believe Bill is right...one of the reasons I personally would never use or recommend that service.

 

I have not received one of those letters in a long time.  Just as well because I already get more than enough unsolicited junk mail.

If we can get cell phones in the halls, we can get a resolution prohibiting mailings to us from outside agencies!

I receive their correspondence periodically and compared to some of the other junk I receive in the mail I really can't take exception to their letters.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe you already can opt out of such solicitations.  I seem to recall the TCA offering that option.  I may even have selected it in the past, which would account for why I--thankfully--don't receive any of that stuff.

While I don't mind getting train-related solicitations, I really wish they would use different envelopes, or at least identify the mailing as a toy train issue.  I usually cringe when I see anything in the mail from a law firm (I've rarely had good news from a law firm in the mail), and it may take a moment to remember that AB mailings are train-related.

 

Andy

Two things:

 

Return to sender address unknown might work.

 

When the TCA eliminated the printed member directory in favor of the CD it made it easier for marketers to send out junk mail.

What is the name of the law firm that appears on the envelope? I did a search at Martindale.com, the leagl industry's "bible" of attorneys and firms licensed to practice in the US.

 

I found Drew Bauer in Pittsburgh- shows he received his undergraduate degree from Notre Dame and his JD from Univ of Pittsburgh and was admitted to the bar in 1982.

 

There is NO Paul V. Ambrose anywhere in the US licensed to practice law according to Martindale.

 

If the tone of the mailings suggests that Ambrose, too, is a licensed attorney when he might not be, that just makes the whole thing slimier.

 

What i find humorous is that Amrose/Bauer might think that by emphasizing they (or at least Bauer)are attorneys that this will impress anyone. As a non practicing, law school graduate myself, consider me very unimpressed.

 

I agree that it's just creepy that they flaunt the "Esquire"; what does being a lawyer have to do with selling toy trains?