Hello, I have been a postwar holdout until the last month. I got the MTH DCS system and I really like it.  

I have a Lionel TMCC controller and Trainmaster to run Lionel,but I was really thinking about looking into a CAB 1-L,so as time and money permit,I can run the TMCC and LEGACY stuff.

Can I run Legacy engines with a Cab 1-L?.From what I have read I guess you can,but what are the limitations as to what you cannot do on the Cab 1-lL setup,and the Real LEGACY system???  

For a new guy at this command control,I thought maybe the Cab 1-L would be easier to understand.  I could always sell it if I want to upgrade ,or should I just go ahead and get the PREMIUM Legacy#990 or #991?   I would love to hear back from guys who have had both systems, and help me decide which would be better for me at this time.  

 

******Also,How can I hook my MTH TIU and my Lionel TMCC Trainmaster up together so it all works? Right now,I am unplugging one and using the other,I know I need some type of connection cord,but do not know which ones to get.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.-Kenny Baughman

Original Post

I have both systems now, and I'd recommend for the first system to go for the full #990 set.  You can access Legacy specific features that you can't access with the CAB1L.  Also, if you move on to stuff like the LCS system, you'll be glad you got the full Legacy system.

not to high-jack the thread but you live in my old home town. 

of course it has been 47 years.

I lived on Pike parkway.

 

anyway go with the 990 system.  I was in your situation a few years ago and everyone here said the same thing.  I'm glad I did and now I have become the club Legacy go to guy.

Since I have and use both I would recommend using the full Legacy. Besides the extra features having the screen and the buttons with programmed icons. The Cab2 helped me to eventually remember the CAB1/TMCC functions that others had memorized over the years. Another plus is switching between the previous engine, switch, accessory, etc. is much easier on the CAB2. 

If you plan on investing in a legacy steam locomotive you will need a cab 2 remote to take advantage of the quilling whistle feature. Building lash-ups / double headers is much easier with the cab 2. Plus the lash - ups are stored in a roster that can be viewed on the display screen.  You can separate the loco,s, run them independently, put them back together at a later time. Call up the lash- up again and they will respond as one unit. Lionel has product demo videos on you-tube . also check out ericstrains on you tube. Eric is a forum member and his videos are first class.

Regards Mike.

My first Lionel engine was Legacy. I went with the 990. I could have just bought a command base and run it from my DCS system, but I wanted all the bells and whistles that Legacy have.

Kenny,

CAB1-L is Legacy, but a down sized version of CAB2-L. CAB2 gives you more features, but you can still run TMCC with it. Also, you can run Legacy engines with CAB1-L as well, but you won't be able to activate certain features like whistle quelling. Lionel came out with CAB1-L first then released CAB2-L. For me I prefer CAB1-L because it's a little simpler to operate.

Don't mistake CAB1-L with CAB1. CAB1 uses 27MHz and CAB1-L uses 2.4 GHz just like CAB2-L.

Tomorrow (Saturday), I'm going to be at 'I Love Toy Trains The Country Store' aka TM Books & Video's for a Legacy clinic and to run trains. Should be fun.

Last edited by DennyM

What's a "CAB2-L?"

I have a CAB-1L and a LEGACY CAB-2. Both activate the quilling horn feature on LEGACY engines.

kennyb posted:

Hello, I have been a postwar holdout until the last month. I got the MTH DCS system and I really like it.  

I have a Lionel TMCC controller and Trainmaster to run Lionel,but I was really thinking about looking into a CAB 1-L,so as time and money permit,I can run the TMCC and LEGACY stuff.

By TMCC controller and Trainmaster, do you mean the original TMCC CAB1 and Command base?  Assumings so, the only functional difference I am aware of between this and the Cab1L/Base1L is that the 1L allows the use of the quelling whistle on Legacy engines.  It has been reported that speed changes are more responsive/better low speed control with the 1L as well.    There are some internal differences in how the devices work, but over all the Cab1 that you already have gives you the same control over your trains that a cab1L/base1L would give you minus the quelling whistle.  

Can I run Legacy engines with a Cab 1-L?.From what I have read I guess you can,but what are the limitations as to what you cannot do on the Cab 1-lL setup,and the Real LEGACY system???  

Can you, YES... But...   All legacy engines can be run on the original TMCC system and will have the same feature set as other TMCC engines like this.  With the Cab1L, you can also use the Quelling whistle on Legacy engines.  To take advantage of all of the features offered in a Legacy engine, however, you need the #990 Cab2 set.  

As stated above the Cab1L/Base1l set up is pretty much a new version of the original TMCC system and aside from the ability to use the quelling whistle on legacy engines.  The limitations of the Cab1L are the same as the original TMCC system, aside from the quelling whistle.  

For a new guy at this command control,I thought maybe the Cab 1-L would be easier to understand.  I could always sell it if I want to upgrade ,or should I just go ahead and get the PREMIUM Legacy#990 or #991?   I would love to hear back from guys who have had both systems, and help me decide which would be better for me at this time.  

If you already own the original Cab1/base there is no need to replace it with a cab1L just to get started, in my opinion.  If you already own Legacy engines I would probably spring for the full 990 set to get the most out of them, and if you find the thing to be too complex for you you can always 'downgrade' to the cab1L for simplicity.  To start, however, the original remote and base will work just fine with no need to buy anything else just yet.  

 

******Also,How can I hook my MTH TIU and my Lionel TMCC Trainmaster up together so it all works? Right now,I am unplugging one and using the other,I know I need some type of connection cord,but do not know which ones to get.

Both systems can be hooked up at the same time without interfering with each other.  there is no need to disconnect one to use the other.  With the DCS system connected per instructions, the TMCC system can be added simply by running a wire from the TMCC base's U post to the black post on the DCS TIU that connects to your track.  Set up like this you need to use the Cab1 for TMCC engines and the DCS remote for DCS engines.  

In addition, the DCS system can 'talk' to TMCC systems over a 'special' serial cable if you like, allowing you to control TMCC engines from the DCS remote.  This and much more can be found in the owners manual for the DCS system.  In the current version of the manual the setup of the serial cable is on page 100, and information on how to operate TMCC engines from the DCS remote begins on page 109.  

http://mthtrains.com/sites/def...ction/20as14017i.pdf

 

Thanks in advance for your help.-Kenny Baughman

You're welcome.

 

JGL

JohnGaltLine posted:
kennyb posted:
 

JGL

Wow ! This is the answer that I was looking for to get started properly with Lionel stuff.  Thanks JGL !

Considering that I want to use WiFi-Lionel and iPhone/iPad Apps, is it true to say that only the Lionel-WiFi connected to a full 990 base will be able to do all TMCC and Legacy functions ?   

In other words, Is it exact to say that, if connected to a Base-1L, the Lionel-WiFi will have some limitations ? (if yes, some examples would be appreciated)

 

Last edited by Daniel Auger

For one big difference, the BASE1L doesn't have a database, so it doesn't remember any of the locomotive specifics.  Another difference is any fancy lighting features or the AUX3 button added to the CAB2, you won't have that capability.

Other than the quilling whistle, the BASE1L transmits the TMCC 8-bit code, the full Legacy command system uses the expanded Legacy 9-bit code.

Is the software in the BASE1L upgradable like it is for the Legacy Base ?

If not, this seems to be another difference/advantage for the Legacy base by comparison to the BASE1L ?

I suppose the software is upgradable, though I've never heard of any option to do so.  Without all the capabilities of the Legacy base, I suspect that isn't really much of a factor.

The BASE1L is basically a new replacement for the old TMCC BASE.  I like the CAB1L as I can connect to the Legacy system with a smaller and more robust remote that is not so easily damaged.  For common running sessions, I don't really need the features of the CAB2, so the smaller remote is just "handy".

I have upgrades from the TMCC to the IL Command base, but even though I've connected it to my MTH TIU, my MTH remote no longer works for the Lionel locomotives. The still appear on the MTH Remote engine menu, but the controller doesn't do anything with them. Has anyone run into this problem?

I'm guessing your cable has a connection issue.  Are you using the newer Legacy compatible MTH cable?  The serial port on the BASE1L has the same signal levels as the Legacy base and they're different from the old TMCC BASE1.

The appearance on the menu doesn't mean anything, it's a one-way link.

I'm guessing your cable has a connection issue.  Are you using the newer Legacy compatible MTH cable?  The serial port on the BASE1L has the same signal levels as the Legacy base and they're different from the old TMCC BASE1.

The appearance on the menu doesn't mean anything, it's a one-way link.

While the signal levels are different, there’s two things: first, the 1l and 990 use a “proper” rs232 signal, however the connection is completely backwards compatible, or rather, the signal on the original tmcc base is compatible with modern (in the last 30 years) rs232 which has no problem with the 0 and 5vdc levels of the original tmcc base. Any device that uses any rs232 chip made in recent history, such as the max232, will work just fine with anything from a swing of 0 to 5 up to negative 15 to plus 15vdc.

The second thing is, the connection from the dcs system to the 1l, or original tmcc is one way. There is no practical difference to the dcs or tmcc systems. Whichever is used there is the same signal coming from the tiu to the tmcc base, the 1l doesn’t send anything back to the dcs unit. 

I would start by checking that the y cable is connected correctly. It won’t work is hooked up wrong. 

The DCS/TMCC cable is not a Y cable, it's a single cable with a connector at each end.  This is a clip from Barry's book, note that the 50-1018 is not compatible with the Legacy or BASE1L, and I've personally experienced this.  The next one wasn't compatible with the TMCC base, finally they made one that worked with all of them.  I don't know internally what changed, I can only say that the 50-1018 will NOT work with the BASE1L or the Legacy command base.

  • At the present time, there are three MTH cables that may be used to connect to a Lionel command base. The three cables are:
    #50-1018, TIU/TMCC 6' Connector Cable may be used only to connect the TIU to a Lionel TMCC Command Base.
    #50-1007, TIU/TMCC 6' Connector Cable may be used only to connect the TIU to a Lionel Legacy Command Base or a Lionel Cab-1L Command Base.
    #50-1032 TIU/TMCC-Legacy 6' Connector Cable may be used to connect the TIU to a Lionel TMCC Command Base, a Lionel Cab-1L Command Base or a Lionel Legacy Command Base.

Sometime I do actually know what I'm talking about.

Well that’s silly. All it needs to do is connect pin 3 of the db9 on the tiu to pin 2 on the tmcc/1l/990 and ground to ground(pin 5). Well that is all it should take, but if I recall, mth used some fubar pinout instead of a 50 year old industry standard like everyone else in the world so a normal $4 cable won’t work.   My only thought is that mth used unused pins like line feed just to detect a signal on their nonstandard pinout, then got humped when legacy systems actually used those pins. 

I don't know why the original cable didn't work, I only know that it didn't.   I assumed they did something with handshake that confused the issue.

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