Jim King of Smokey Mountain Model Works has already produced a resin, S-scale model of the SAL Class B7 single-door turtleback boxcar and has asked to see if there's any interest in producing the SAL Class AF-1 double-door turtleback boxcar, also in S scale.

He posted this on the ACL/SAL Yahoo forum and I replied saying that if he ever decided to build these in O scale I'd be interested.

He sent me an email questioning if there was enough interest, so I thought I'd ask here to get some idea.

The SAL Class B7 (19000-19499) was a 40', single-door car:

sal rr boxcar19268

The SAL Class AF-1 (11000-11699) and AF-2 (11700-11999) was a 40', double-door boxcar:

sal dd rr boxcar 11665

Here's a photo of Jim's S-scale single-door car:

19135 B7 RR boxcar

These are NOT the same as the PRR or B&O cars, this is a very different design.

Honestly, Jim says there's not been a lot of interest shown from the O-scale folks in any resin kits and feels it's not worth his effort and $$$.  I told him I would at least make the attempt and ask here (hopefully the 2-rail guys will also look).

No idea what it would cost, how many would have to sell, etc.  This is just me brainstorming (look out!).

The S-scale kit would be a 1-pc urethane body, urethane underframe, and separate details, I would think an O-scale kit would be the same.

OK, so who's interested? (I told him I'd post and give him the link to it so he can read what is said)

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

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Bob Delbridge posted:

Honestly, Jim says there's not been a lot of interest shown from the O-scale folks in any resin kits and feels it's not worth his effort and $$$. 

I wonder if that has anything to do with his not actually reaching out to the O scale community through more media options - if few know of him and his possible products, maybe that has something to do with lack of interest?

I wonder if his putting a little advert in print, e.g., "contact me if you have an interest in....." and put a list in the advert.  Passively relying on a web site for a producer that you may not know to make a product seems a sure way to not get any business or to get anything made.

Maybe what you are doing here will help, Bob.


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

 

 

 

 

You might be right Martin.  The crowd on the ACL/SAL Yahoo forum is mostly HO, some N and S, and only a handful of O-scalers.

He said he had offered O-scale at one time, but sales were insignificant and his interest in S-scale got the better of him so that's the direction he took.

I did start a topic about his S-scale car in the S-scale forum, but no responses so far:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...dd-round-roof-boxcar

No responses on a forum for a scale that he's already offered, and trying to drum up business for another model for, says a lot I'm afraid.

Well, all I can do is put the word out and if people want to respond that's all that can be expected.

These were very important cars for Seaboard and widely used on their system.  If the cost is not astronomical I'd consider getting a couple of them.  I have two of the fantasy SAL MTH RailKing round-roof boxcars (I think I determined they are B&O prototypes) and need to repaint them if I can find the right color (I've been in touch with Ed Bommer).

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

I bought 3 different X-31a's from Lionel. Nice true "O" cars featuring metal details and good quality. Close enough for me.

SAL SP Collection [3)

SAL SP Collection [8)

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Steve, your models always look amazing

Other than the number of side panels and side sill, a big difference in these 2 cars (SAL vs PRR) is the roof/side joint.  The SAL cars meet evenly where the PRR X31a cars are formed like the brim on a hat (as on the Lionel model):

prr X31a-end

Now the PRR X31c double-door cars may be closer to the SAL DD cars, but I'd have to do a thorough check:

PRR X31C

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

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Clarence, SAL bought these cars from Pullman in 1940-1942 and went on to become SCL (1967-1981) cars wearing road-numbers 819000-819499.  These cars were 10' inside height, 40' long.  Another difference between them and the PRR cars is the SAL cars and Pullman "Dart Not" ends (the smaller darts seen on the PRR cars).

I would expect any scale car to be bigger than any postwar loco.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Hey Bob, not to change the subject. I found a guy on shapways that has correct O Scale ACL and seaboard Way cars for sale.

US Army retired

Suncoast Regional Coordinator 

First Florida  Chapter of the MVPA HAZMAT SME(RID,DOD,IATA,ADR,CFR 49)  

 

Bob Delbridge posted:

Thanks!  I need to take a close look at Shapeways anyway!!!

Also if you find something in HO or OO don't be afraid to ask if they could upscale to O. Just make sure that you specify US 1/48. Alot of these guy are in Europe.( 1/43.5 ).

 

US Army retired

Suncoast Regional Coordinator 

First Florida  Chapter of the MVPA HAZMAT SME(RID,DOD,IATA,ADR,CFR 49)  

 

Bob Delbridge posted:

Steve, your models always look amazing

Other than the number of side panels and side sill, a big difference in these 2 cars (SAL vs PRR) is the roof/side joint.  The SAL cars meet evenly where the PRR X31a cars are formed like the brim on a hat (as on the Lionel model):

prr X31a-end

Now the PRR X31c double-door cars may be closer to the SAL DD cars, but I'd have to do a thorough check:

PRR X31C

I am now confused by your above statement about the roof meeting evenly on the SAL cars, as the photo of the prototype, as well as the photos of the Lionel models, have a definite "step" from the inset roof edge on the SAL cars. The photo of the PRR prototype car, above, shows the roof edge meeting/mating flush with the sides.

I wouldn't mind having correct models of each. 

Jack, the color photo is of a single-door PRR car, the other is a double-door, why the single door roof/side is different than the double-door/roof I don't know.  The ends on both are still wrong for SAL, as is the side sill and numbers of panels on the sides.  The only photos of true SAL cars are in my 1st post.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Bob, If a 1940 / 41 version is done, I'd be a firm buyer, probably only qty one of an auto car version (why do so many auto cars get done in O scale, anyway?), but I'd commit to qty two single door box cars.

This of course assumes these are done to the modern day quality / prototype "correctness" levels that SC&F / Rails Unlimited cars are done to.

PS, isn't Jim King the one who did the Southern Flat car / gondola resin kits that Keith Wiseman now sells ? For some reason, I'm not into resin flat cars, but if Jim King had done the Southern 36' truss rod box car, I'd have bought a whole bunch.

Bob,

I'm not a Seaboard modeler, but since it is one of the signature cars for the Seaboard, I'd be interested in buying a resin kit for the single door boxcar. Which car is he looking to produce? The single door B7 or double door car AF-1?

Jim kind of burnt some bridges with some O Scale folks with his comments last time he tried to produced some cars for O Scale. 

Bob3, nothing yet, but I do know he's reading these posts.

I have no idea how many firm commitments he would need to warrant the cost or how many  he would have to sell.

I think the ACL caboose from Shapeways is HO not O, at least that's the impression I get when I look at the photos (one caption says it's HO).  Still a nice looking model and just maybe the maker would be willing to do some in O.

Don't know what he did to burn bridges, but I can only guess they were in defense in his answers concerning some of the demands made by some O-scalers.  I'll let him and others weigh in on that.  Having made/sold a few items in another hobby I can only say some folks want something for nothing.

Of course these would likely be more expensive that what Atlas puts out, but so are all of the cars made by the other smaller manufacturers.  If someone can get Atlas to make these SPECIFIC Seaboard cars then please do so.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Bob Delbridge posted:
I think the ACL caboose from Shapeways is HO not O, at least that's the impression I get when I look at the photos (one caption says it's HO).  Still a nice looking model and just maybe the maker would be willing to do some in O.

There are O scale ones there: http://www.shapeways.com/produ...-o?optionId=56068384

$235 - fold in trucks & couplers, paint & decals, interior (?), etc.....

,,,,,,,,,,,,some folks want something for nothing.

Or, they want it for 5 cents, like Lucy van Pelt....

Or, the guys that stop at my table, pick up a $20 item I have tagged for $2, and ask if I'll take $1......


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

 

 

 

 

Thanks Martin, I have yet to navigate the Shapeways website with much success.

Lucy might pull it away from you if you don't watch out!

I was looking at a DIY 3D printer online today, great price but there has to be a sharp learning curve with the software it takes to make an item.

Email from Jim...ain't gonna happen he says.

So...dig those favors out if you have them and cash them in to Atlas/MTH/Lionel.

I may have to get one like Steve's Lionel cars and do some "plastic" surgery.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

mwb posted:
Bob Delbridge posted:
I think the ACL caboose from Shapeways is HO not O, at least that's the impression I get when I look at the photos (one caption says it's HO).  Still a nice looking model and just maybe the maker would be willing to do some in O.

There are O scale ones there: http://www.shapeways.com/produ...-o?optionId=56068384

$235 - fold in trucks & couplers, paint & decals, interior (?), etc.....

/

Yeah, that is the same seller I provided in the link in my reply.  I didn't know I had to give specific instructions to navigate his store. He has them in O scale.  If you want to play then you pay. Nothing is free.

US Army retired

Suncoast Regional Coordinator 

First Florida  Chapter of the MVPA HAZMAT SME(RID,DOD,IATA,ADR,CFR 49)  

 

suzukovich posted:

  If you want to play then you pay. Nothing is free.


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

 

 

 

 

Well, maybe it's not officially dead yet.

Jim emailed me asking if I had emails for those that said they would like to have this car.  He's also been seeking numbers on the O Scale Kings, P48, and one other site.

From my count only 5 have posted here saying they were interested, the others posts were only comments.  Of the 5, I see 4 emails.

I'll pass this along to him and keep an eye on this topic to see if anybody else is interested to give him an update.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Got another email from Jim King, here's what he said:

I have 26 kits “sold” including yours and the 2 unknowns on your list.  I really need to hit 50 to justify the time and expense but we’re already halfway along so there’s hope.

Bob3, email Jim directly to let him know you're interested, his email is at the bottom of his website:

http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/

Most of his offerings right now are S-scale, but at least he's listening/watching to us O-scalers!

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Bob Delbridge posted:

You might be right Martin.  The crowd on the ACL/SAL Yahoo forum is mostly HO, some N and S, and only a handful of O-scalers.

He said he had offered O-scale at one time, but sales were insignificant and his interest in S-scale got the better of him so that's the direction he took.

I did start a topic about his S-scale car in the S-scale forum, but no responses so far:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...dd-round-roof-boxcar

No responses on a forum for a scale that he's already offered, and trying to drum up business for another model for, says a lot I'm afraid.

Well, all I can do is put the word out and if people want to respond that's all that can be expected.

These were very important cars for Seaboard and widely used on their system.  If the cost is not astronomical I'd consider getting a couple of them.  I have two of the fantasy SAL MTH RailKing round-roof boxcars (I think I determined they are B&O prototypes) and need to repaint them if I can find the right color (I've been in touch with Ed Bommer).

By when I was a kid I saw the real thing.There where 6 of them parked on a few sidings.In the freight yard in town they were behind the abc store.They sat there for years until the rail road got rid of them.I took some pictures of the last one before they moved it.I don,t know where that picture is.

Well it seems like we're getting somewhere.  Jim is taking reservations now... step up to the plate so we can get the minimum amount for the work to be considered!

And if we get this done he would be open to other models... I suggested an SU with both Hutchins and T-brace ends.

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

jimking3@charter.net

 Jim King (828) 777-5619

Rob M. ARHS # 3846 PRRT&HS # 8141 EPTC "Life Is Like A Mountain Railway, With An Engineer That's Brave..."

Got an email from Jim King, looks like the SAL B7 in O-scale is getting some attention.  He sent out a list to folks who have indicated they want one, for them to review their order and make corrections.

He indicated nothing firm, but the price may be "$140-ish" per car.  I increased my order after seeing this.  Could be higher but this is THE CAR I've been wanting.

He also had 3 other cars on the wishlist:

SOU low side gondola

CB&Q 53' flatcar

AAR 70ton flatcar

I saw nothing on his website about these cars so if anyone has any info please share (prototype photos would be nice).

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Is that price for just the body or does that include all (any?) of the basic detail parts?

Obviously not couplers and trucks...


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

 

 

 

 

Martin,

I'll check my emails to Jim King, but here's a general statement his website says about his S-scale models:

Each kit includes 1-pc urethane underframe and details, steel weight (hidden in centersill during assembly), laser-cut deck & bulkheads (where applicable), wire, decals and Kadee 802 couplers.  Trucks are not included.

Hopefully the O-scale offerings will be the same.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

Things like ladders, grabs, brake wheels and all those fiddly bits might be useful to have in the box - decals might be a real plus!


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

 

 

 

 

Martin, I emailed Jim and here's his response:

Everything is included except trucks and couplers.  The AAR flat will not
have decals because Norm B. will sell those separately.  The rest of the
proposed O kits will include decals from my artwork like the S scale
offerings.

Jim King
(828) 777-5619
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

The brunt of this discussion is happening on the Yahoo P:48 modelers group list.    Some good discussion about whether to add things to the kit that folks might not want, like Kadee couplers. 

Decals are a hot topic and I would guess that with so many P:48 modelers wanting these cars the quality of the added details such as ladders and brake systems will have to be good and be accurate.

The SAL box car is still falling short of reservations but the 70 ton AAR low deck flat has sufficient interest to be produced.

Hopefully both will make it. 

Rob M. ARHS # 3846 PRRT&HS # 8141 EPTC "Life Is Like A Mountain Railway, With An Engineer That's Brave..."

Bob Delbridge posted:

Martin, I emailed Jim and here's his response:

Everything is included except trucks and couplers.  The AAR flat will not
have decals because Norm B. will sell those separately.  The rest of the
proposed O kits will include decals from my artwork like the S scale
offerings.

Jim King
(828) 777-5619
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

That's the kind of info that you need to provide if you are going to get enough folks to sign up.

KDee ready should be adequate for most; P48 guys can surely work with that.....

Good instructions are as always, critical.


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

 

 

 

 

Thanks all for pushing this.

My 2 cents is that while it would be nice if the kit included them, I can come up with the "fiddly" bits / trucks / couplers on my own. Instructions are nice, but I'd rather have a photo copy of some pictures / a scale drawing.

What I desire for $140 ish per kit is the stuff I can't easily come up with on my own, i.e. a dead accurate body / underframe and decals.

I just emailed Jim to see if there had been any more folks saying they wanted this.  He also mentioned some other O-scale cars on a "Wish List" but I can't find anything on his website.

MODELING SOUTHEAST VIRGINIA

4+ years and STILL Having A Blast Running BPRC

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