Anyone Using the LCS SER2 Serial Data to Drive DZ-2500 Switch Machines?

@gunrunnerjohn - I have a vague memory of reading comments that the DZ2500 did not work well with certain flavors of Legacy connected via LCS SER2.  One notion was that the tx/rx voltages were slightly off and need resistors placed on the data lines.  The only reason I remember that is because I had to buy a voltage shifter for a 5V to 3.3V serial connection. That may very well not be your case, but I thought I would mention.   My personal thought would be to make sure the expected flavors of settings match (stop bits, parity/no parity, ...). A

Is this is how you have them wired?  You can’t just use the ser2, you need to add the data driver, either Zstuff, or Lionel’s new data driver for 2500 switch machines.

http://www.lionel.com/products...akout-board-1908010/

If you have an older zstuff data driver you may have to change out a resistor.  I forget which one.  As Wells mention but I think it highly unlikely you have an older version.

I have no problem driving them with the DZ-2001L, it's the latest version.  I figured out the CSM2 boxes, they need to have aux power or they don't work.  Odd that the documentation appears to suggest the block control is optional, so I figured I didn't need relay power.

Other than the CSM2, I know of no "new" Lionel driver for the DZ-2500 switch machines.

Gary, the SER2 IS the box that won't drive the DZ-2500C switch machines.  They totally ignore it's output.  I can see it on my 'scope, and it looks fine, but they don't work.  Connect them to the DZ-2001L and they work.

Grasping at straws... probably of NO use... but, Found this...

Lionel changed the output current on the Legacy command base.  That has screwed up the Z-Stuff DZ-2001 data wire driver.  Dennis Zander of Z-stuff has figured out how to fix the problem by changing a resistor on the DZ-2001 board.

And this... DZ2500 - If all was well with TMCC... hook it up in parallel with the Legacy base connect the common to the Legacy base rather than the TMCC.  This way you could use both CAB-1 & 2 and operate the switches with the signal being converted from Legacy to TMCC.

I don't have a TMCC base in the picture, but there's no problem with the DZ-2001L data driver.  I think there's some issue with the data coming out of the SER2 serial terminals.

I'm scouring the net John!  Someone, Somewhere has to have run into this before and hopefully posted it!!!

Update:   Nothing!   This is from the same post I was cribbing from before... this is the entire thread ...

http://cs.trains.com/ctt/f/95/t/157527.aspx

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I figured out the CSM2 boxes, they need to have aux power or they don't work.  Odd that the documentation appears to suggest the block control is optional, so I figured I didn't need relay power.

this bit me also, Emailed Dave Olson and found out they have to have aux power. He was very helpful if you reread page 13 of the manual it’s in there but easy to miss.

John I am confused how would the SER2 box drive the switch machines? That’s what the CSM2 or the data driver are for. Maybe I’m missing a piece of the puzzle

John, are you saying that you are trying to use the SER2 serial output without any DZ-2001 in the picture?  If so, then is the problem that the ground references for the serial data are different?  

The DZ-2001 is optoisolated from the Command Base ground (which should be earth ground, pin 5), and uses layout common (outside rail) for the ground reference.

I think the SER2 is just getting earth ground from the Legacy base, so wouldn't it have a different ground than the DZ-2500s?

Ignore the above if you're driving the DZ-2001 from the SER2, which should work.

The SER2 has an opto-isolated serial data output, so I gave it track ground.  When I looked at the serial data signal on my scope, it looks identical to the one coming out of the DZ-2001L that I have, and it has the same ground reference.  That being the case, it escapes me why it doesn't work, it has to have that ground reference to work with stuff like the TPC, etc.

In any case, I did get the CSM2 serial data working, you have to also provide it a common outside rail ground and power as well.  That was not obvious, but careful reading of the CSM2 document does make a passing mention of powering it.  Did I mention that Lionel documentation sometimes is left wanting?

@zhubl posted:

John I am confused how would the SER2 box drive the switch machines? That’s what the CSM2 or the data driver are for. Maybe I’m missing a piece of the puzzle

Serial data should be serial data, and it's the same polarity and amplitude as what comes out of the CSM2.  That's what is confusing, I can't see any reason it wouldn't drive them.

@gunrunnerjohn that makes since, with that in mind though I do remember reading that when the machines go in any given direction they send out a serial signal. I don’t know why that could’ve been used to show the switch positions over a STM2

OK, here's an odd one that I'm still trying to figure out!  I fired up the layout this morning, all was well, switches all working in command mode, etc.  Fast forward about 15 minutes, and I hit the master power to turn everything off to tinker with my TT wiring (no shorts, just fixing something).  Turn the master power back on, and none of the switches are recognizing TMCC commands!

NOTHING CHANGED EXCEPT A POWER CYCLE!

I can see the LED's blinking on all the CSM2 boxes for each switch command, so I have to presume the commands are going out.  I even checked one of the switch serial data inputs on the CSM2 breakout board with my 'scope and the data is there for the switch command.

If I power cycle a time or two, eventually switch operation will come back!  Once of the reasons for separating the serial data between three CSM2 boxes was for debugging, and to localize any DZ-2500 switch machine that might be stepping on the serial data.  However with this failure, ALL the switches stop recognizing serial data no matter which CSM2 they're getting their serial data from!

Anyone else see stuff like this with this combination?

I have had such issues but always figured I did something wrong. In most cases I gave up and came back the next day to find the switch machines working

Well, I may be doing something wrong, but I sure don't know what it is!  I was swapping switch machines until I realize I was chasing ghosts!  Now I don't know what to think!

John, you mention your problem comes and goes with power cycles. Could it be a problem with your power strips your using?

Doug

Well, I’ll tell you one thing I’ve learned here; that’s if you’re having trouble figuring this stuff out, I’ve got no chance in “he??”.  Guess it’s manual switching for me...  

John,

This sounds like the problem I had when I implemented your signal booster into my wiring, but it wasn't "sporadic."  No matter how low I turned down the output on the device, my DZ 2500's just "froze"!  I tried trouble-shooting and disconnected all Dat wiring from every switch.  As I rewired the dat wire to each switch, the red light on the DZ-2001L would grow dimmer and dimmer with each switch added to the chain.  After about 3 or 4 switches were connected there was total interference of signal to the switches.  You and I tried figuring it out, but were both baffled. 

I tried reaching out to anyone else on this forum at the time who incorporated your signal booster with DZ-2500's to see if there were similar issues.  I had no responses and figured I was the only one who had this issue because everyone else was using different switch motors.

Greg

Greg, perhaps not helpful but I have some DZ2500 's on my layout as well as Tortoise machines. The difference is my DZ2500's are actuated using ASC2's. Adding GRJ's signal booster had no affect on the turnouts with that configuration since they see only a contact closure, not serial data.

John, can you draw up a diagram on how everything is wired?